Why I don't believe in climate change (as someone who isn't a republican or conservative)

Author: TheUnderdog

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16kadams
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@Double_R
If there actually were any, then sure.
Are you denying that politicians actually say stuff like that? 

And while you are right that no climate scientist (that I am aware of) has said the world will end in X number of years, they have said things like there will be no Arctic ice in the summer (see, e.g., James Hansen).
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@Greyparrot
maybe earth would be better without reefs, but that's not the point. the point is that humans are clearly causing them to die. ya'll have been trying to argue that's not true. but you guys are not capable of logical argumentation, so it's probably not worth my time trying. 
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@n8nrgim
maybe earth would be better without reefs, 

Why are you worried about it then?

the point is that humans are clearly causing them to die

So what? Humans once ate passenger pigeons to extinction while chickens are now one of the most populous birds in the world. Nobody cares.
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30 Billion Chickens lol.

Who needs reefs? Pass the nuggets.
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@Reece101
Yep.

I'm a realist.

Bodily dysfunction is a natural reaction to it's cause.

And all human processes are derivatives of base matter.

And the evolution of matter, is seemingly an inevitable process.

And over-reaction to bad news is a derivation of our highly developed ability to process and respond to data.
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@zedvictor4
Okay grandpa. I think it’s time for some new medication. 
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@zedvictor4
Oh so if man blows up the world with newks then that is a natural thing is it? And everything is going to be natural are they? I think your thinking is a bit way out their with the fairies.
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@16kadams
Are you denying that politicians actually say stuff like that? 
Doom and gloom speak is politics 101 so of course politicians paint a dim portrait of our future, but no one except for some fringe lunatic you can find on Google (cause in a country of 300 million people there will always be some lunatic who meets your search), is claiming the human race will be extinct in 8 years. It's just another caricature of the left.
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So what? Humans once ate passenger pigeons to extinction while chickens are now one of the most populous birds in the world. Nobody cares.
So let’s ignore the earlier hilariously idiotic attempt to justify inaction by downplaying the significance of mass extinctions; this is sort of hilarious too.

Firstly, perhaps it maybe lost on you; but there is a difference between a single random species going extinct, and a critical species upon which major ecosystems depend going extinct: the latter is kind of a big deal as historically it triggers what is known as “ecological collapse” - because the death of coral isn’t limited to coral - but to all the species that depend on them, and all the species that depend on those.

Who cares? Coastal communities that economically depend on them, or on other species that depend on them ; all of us on the grounds that coral helps absorb carbon dioxide, anyone who is adversely impacted by the knock on effects of the collapsed ecosystem. Finally - all of us, because if an ecosystem collapses, the people that depend on it have to then rely on another ecosystem to survive: which would place additional burden other already stressed ecosystem.

But hell, if you think we can all live of battery farmed chicken, and that large scale ecological disruption from climate change is fine, drop your crypto and go for shares in Buy N Large.

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@Double_R
It's just another caricature of the left.
Agreed. AOC is basically a living caricature of the left.

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@Ramshutu
If that were true - then CO2 wouldn’t be going up - but it is. Hence what you said can’t be true.

CO2 is going up slightly, but if there are only 120 ppm in the atmosphere more (.012% extra), I fail to see how this would single handedly lead to temperature rises of 2 degrees Celsius.  This would be like saying if 1.2% extra of the atmosphere was CO2 (100x the increase than in our planet), then this is somehow supposed to lead to temperatures increasing 200 degrees Celsius.  I'm not saying the scientific consensus is wrong, I just don't know why they would be right with such a small CO2 increase nominally and I don't think it's wise to believe something just because smarter people believe in something.  Otherwise, we would let the smartest 1000 people in the world be the sole dictators of the world.  
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You say that you prefer to rent out houses, yet you aren't actually doing so. How hypocritical!!!

Do you see how silly you sound now?
I'm not telling other people to rent out houses though.  Most people that want more clean energy tell other people to buy solar panels and wind turbines but refuse to buy them personally.

Renting houses is something I want to do personally.  I don't believe in telling others to do it.  I just don't care whether others rent out houses or not.


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@n8nrgmi
I don't know why you care so much about Ocean plants.  If a plant dies, I don't really care.  It's a fucking plant.
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@TheUnderdog
CO2 is going up slightly
CO2 has increased from around 280ppm to 415ppm, which is an increase of almost 50% in the last 100 years. This is not “slightly”.

But - before we change the subject - it shouldn’t be, right. You just said that plants would be increasing their absorbtion by growing larger - co2 is rising and they’re clearly not - so what you said is incorrect.


but if there are only 120 ppm in the atmosphere more (.012% extra), I fail to see how this would single handedly lead to temperature rises of 2 degrees Celsius.  This would be like saying if 1.2% extra of the atmosphere was CO2 (100x the increase than in our planet), then this is somehow supposed to lead to temperatures increasing 200 degrees Celsius.  I'm not saying the scientific consensus is wrong, I just don't know why they would be right with such a small CO2 increase nominally and I don't think it's wise to believe something just because smarter people believe in something.  Otherwise, we would let the smartest 1000 people in the world be the sole dictators of the world.  
This is also bad logic.

The amount of co2 in the atmosphere is now at 415ppm. At 415ppm cyanide - we’d all be dead. The concentration is not relevant - it’s the impact of that concentration, and the total volume it represents that is important.

120ppm corresponds to nearly 1,000,000,000,000 tones of carbon dioxide. While 120ppm may not sound like a lot, we’d both agree that one thousands gigatonnes in the atmosphere is a substantial amount, no?


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But hell, if you think we can all live of battery farmed chicken, and that large scale ecological disruption from climate change is fine, drop your crypto and go for shares in Buy N Large.

That's entirely plausible. Man has been terraforming the planet to become a human biome from the first shelter built, and will continue to do so.

This planet is still entirely hostile to humans and needs further taming.

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@TheUnderdog
As George Carlin said, Humans turned the planet into one gigantic strip mall, and they think it's just DANDY!
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@Barnardot
If people have evolved with the ability to,

Blow up the World with newks. (Nukes)
Then that is what has naturally occurred.

Can you explain how that might not be the case?


Some people seem to think that they are not derived of this universe.
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@Greyparrot 

If Venus had an atmosphere with the same heat emissivity as Earth, its average temperature would be about 70 Celsius. This follows pretty easily from the Stefan-Boltzmann law, since Venus gets about twice the solar energy, its temperature would be 2^0.25 times higher. Too hot for life.
That’s about the same temperature which is predicted for the Middle East in the coming decades. Umm do you know what a runaway greenhouse effect is?

Don’t reply to me if you’ve blocked me
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That's entirely plausible. Man has been terraforming the planet to become a human biome from the first shelter built, and will continue to do so.

This planet is still entirely hostile to humans and needs further taming.
There is somewhat of a difference between building a house to keep you warm and dry, and causing systemic ecological collapse across multiple biomes; reducing key biodiversity in key ecosystems, and damaging the underlying carrying capacity of the land, and will inevitably uproot current economies and agriculture.

I’m not Sure why you’re so irrationally hell bent on downplaying climate change with this type of ridiculous nonsense; given the current environment, it seems A case of monkey see monkey do; but the bottom line here is that climate change is unquestionably going to bring about unprecedented economic and social upheaval that vastly dwarfs the impacts of adjusting our energy policy today - adjustments that we’re literally going to have to make anyway over the next century.

Your time here would be best served thinking, rather than googling half relevant quora answers that align with the party line that you feel compelled to defend.




Greyparrot
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I don't need to defend George Carlin lol. Enjoy your delusions.

People with basic herd instincts often predictably virtue signal that they are ecological Luddites (lies to get accepted into the herd), but in the end, they all make trips to the same strip malls when nobody is there to call them out on their bullshit.

The Earth is a very hostile place for humans without those strip malls dontchaknow.

I can only offer you the same advice Carlin gave us. Go spend some time alone with nature. Be a host for the thousands of things that want to consume your body, and then come back with your pretentious bullshit and start talking about how much of a threat to the planet you feel today.

Sound words from the great Carlin.

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That’s about the same temperature which is predicted for the Middle East in the coming decades. 

There's no scientist that predicts the middle east is going to be around 160 degrees F due to global warming lol. The bullshit in this thread is so bad.

There's certainly no scientist that says the Earth would have an average of 160 degree temperatures all over the globe due to global warming as if we were in the same orbit as Venus right now with the current atmosphere. Where are you pulling this stuff from? They've even walked back hard claims on the 4 degree rise.

Seems like Alex Jones type hyperbole just to get attention and make friends.
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@ILikePie5
Is it 7 or 8 years from now that we’re all gonna be dead according to AOC?
Most people when asked would not donate 10 dollars a month to fight climate change.

That is how thick the Bullshit is on this topic. Prophets of doom insist we live in Luddite caves but the rules are for thee, not for me.


Climate change has and always will be a mechanism of wealth transfer from people trying to make friends to people that are so rich that they don't need friends.
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People with basic herd instincts often predictably virtue signal that they are ecological Luddites (lies to get accepted into the herd), but in the end, they all make trips to the same strip malls when nobody is there to call them out on their bullshit.
This is exactly what you’re doing. It’s simply right wing virtue signalling. Oppose facts, oppose the reality, throw out strawman, find random quora quotes you don’t understand to oppose any questioning of your orthodoxy.

I mean - you’re not really questioning the data, you’re not even really questioning the outcome; merely trying to bash people who believe it.

Like I said, the stupid strawman that just because nature is dangerous, or is unlikely to kill everyone -means that it’s fine to destroy large parts of it - is still pretty stupid, regardless of how much value you attack to virtue signal your own happy group of luddites.

But given that you’re just really suggesting that it’s fine to wreak whatever ecological damage we want to the world because people who think we’re committing ecological damage go to strip malls: is really about the level of rational thought we have all come to expect.




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I can only offer you the same advice Carlin gave us. Go spend some time alone with nature. Be a host for the thousands of things that want to consume your body, and then come back with your pretentious bullshit and start talking about how much of a threat to the planet you feel today.

30 Billion chickens agree.

I can tell you are no fan of Carlin because he exposes frauds. In a funny way of course.

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@Greyparrot
Strip malls exist... whence, it's totally cool to mow down rain forests

Millions of unique and vital species exist there.... but, we got plenty o' chickens, so, again, all cool

How am I doin' with this debate thing? 

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@n8nrgmi
Strip malls exist... whence, it's totally cool to mow down rain forests

I see you have decided to refrain from letting the rain forest consume you like all reasonable humans. Most of the Earth is toxic to humans.

Now, go plant some more corn to feed the 30 billion Chickens. There's plenty of CO2 to grow corn for your Nuggets.

and vital species exist there.
Nothing is more vital on planet Earth than a chicken according to natural selection. The rest are just pretending to be vital.

Let's see you go a year without eating chicken and we can talk.
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@Greyparrot
I never eat chicken.

What do you want to talk about?
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@zedvictor4
How about corn?

None of these things grow in a rainforest. Imagine that.

Maybe if they did, natural selection would have preserved the rainforest.

Go a year without eating anything on this list while living in a rainforest. Then you can tell me how "vital" the rainforest is.
Ramshutu
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I can only offer you the same advice Carlin gave us. Go spend some time alone with nature. Be a host for the thousands of things that want to consume your body, and then come back with your pretentious bullshit and start talking about how much of a threat to the planet you feel today.

30 Billion chickens agree.

I can tell you are no fan of Carlin because he exposes frauds. In a funny way of course.
What you’re doing here is particularly bad faith trolling. While everyone else appears to be having a discussion in good faith, your replies are specifically targeted to try and derail the conversation. I’m going to explain the detail - but a nice little summary is that you have completely failed to say anything particularly valid, you haven’t addressed a single thing anyone has levelled at you, much less actually defended anything  - but you simply post repeatedly as if you had.


It’s particularly hard for someone who is honest to deal with this; because really, what can you say to someone who is arguing as if everyone else is saying nothing. You clearly understand and appreciate that you’re ignoring the details everyone is saying, missing the point by just enough to sound as if you have - it’s just intentional pissing one peoples heads and telling them it’s raining.



For example: you started off just lobbing little argument grenades, and sniping - this is where you just throw out an objection, with the goal of saying as little as possible, for making others arguing in good faith to say as much as you can make them.

If you pay attention you’ve failed to defend everything you’ve said:

-Your argument that climate change is fine because previous apocalypses haven’t killed everyone (patently dumb).
-Your argument that Venus was 70 degrees completely missed the point (and was simply pulled of the web, and I doubt you understand the maths)
-You made an error with misunderstanding thermal breakdown of a given material.
-You confuse protection from nature with destruction of nature.
-And you confuse individuals being hypocrites - with the validity of one portion of what they are being hypocrites about.


Obviously; you have defended none of this, and are simply made replying as if you said something valid.

Same again in this reply, you’ve just made the same reply you just said a couple of posts earlier, and instead of defending what you said, or addressing what I said, you’ve just tried to bait the conversation with dangling statements about George Carlin.

That’s a particularly shitty troll move; but typically effective, where you drop in something hoping that people can’t resist addressing it, knowing that if they do, it’s derailed the conversation.


If you want to have an actual discussion on climate change, feel free; I encourage it. What you’re doing is not that; in fact, what you’re doing is going out of your way to completely avoid having an actual discussion.

I can reasonably predict that instead of actually defending what you said: and explain why you feel that there is no difference protecting ourself from nature and destroying an entire ecosystem (you can’t because it’s an obvious attempt to troll), you’re just going to reiterate the same thing again, you’re going deliberately avoid the discussion - and continue trolling.




Greyparrot
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It's fine. there's plenty of people that find Carlin's humor exposing climate fraudsters and prophets of doom. But don't forget to drop your offering into the collection plate on your way out. Al Gore needs a new solar panel for his mansion. The grand poobah of the religion of climate doom.

protecting ourselves from nature and destroying an entire ecosystem
Ecosystems have been destroyed long before humans, and will continue to be destroyed. You don't get to choose. Natural selection chooses. And man is part of nature.

Carlin and his enlightened audience knew this, much to the consternation of the monkeys that would criticize him.