Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
 
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
 
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
 
Regards
DL 

I don't think we know the answer to that yet although I argue that homosexuality is likely to prove a particularly adaptive trait in social animal species.  Biologists have observed same-sex behavior in more than 450 species with important correlations to animal societies.  Homosexuality seems more prevalent in more social animals (dolphins, primates, elephants, etc). 

I like one theory by Italian scientists that links a gene associated with lineages of very fertile and productive females with higher incidences of homosexuality in males with the same gene.  That is, lineages with a history of large families may have adapted to produce extra males with traits making them less likely to reproduce as a way of increasing the adult to child ratio and supporting the fertile females.  It's a nice theory although I don't think there's a lot of evidence to support it as yet.

Natural. It might be cause by either social behavior or genetic mutation.

This lines up with the mouse utopia experiments I was telling you about in another thread. 

This makes absolutely 0 sense and isn't how evolution works DNA-wise... think for a second how this would be working scientifically, the only thing supporting this theory is actually a point against it; that the more previous male babies born in the womb, the more 'powerful' the womb of the mother becomes at pumping oestrogen to the next fertile offspring.

In other words, younger male siblings are always less prone to being very masculine than their older male sibling counterparts due to womb mechanics that occur after each baby.

I will reiterate,

And probably be ignored.

But the issues of procreational potential,

And recreational possibility,

Get conflated.

And overstated.

Gay sex is a common and long standing,

Recreational activity,

And the outshooting stuff,

Has procreational potential,

Not necessarily essential.

 

But.

Society has developed in such a way,

That we do not  function as we first did,

Such is  the nature of intelligence,

And the development of thoughts,

And inhibitions.

Makes us think

Contrary to instinct.

So Alpha Male,

Fucks the females,

And in between times,

Others do what is necessary,

To relieve those innate,

Stresses.

Perhaps wear dresses.

Though,

Population,

7.9 billion and counting,

So no need to fret,

Yet.

And I'm guessing that,

DL,

Does not Label as Alpha.

And,

PS. Mustn't forget,

GOD is, a mind set.

Regards,

Zed

I will read you as saying nature.

Good enough for me.

Regards

DL

Social behavior????

What social behavior might change you from whatever you are, gay or straight,  to the other?

Regards

DL

If some God did not want gays to enjoy sex, he should have put less sexual enjoyment in his creating kit.

Why does that same God create straight Christians to hate gays?

Regards

DL

"And probably be ignored."

Only because you did not answer the O.P.

Why would I not ignore you, here as well as elsewhere, if you will not get on the fucking issues in the O.P.

Especially given your hard to read ego feeding style.

Use it on me and be ignored.

Regards

DL

Don't tell God what he should do. If you want to be an animal that just caves to your base instincts to fuck other men, go ahead fruit cake. I see like 20 women I want to fuck everyday, I don't do it. I don't act on my urges to start publicly humping them like a dog. It's not too much to ask gays to not hump people and act on their urges as well. I don't know why God gave them those urges, maybe it's because gays were too perfect everywhere else, so he needed to give them a challenge. 

.

God tells Christians not to hate fags.  He wants us to love them, but not in the way your sick mind is thinking 

Don't tell God what he should do. If you want to be an animal that just caves to your base instincts to fuck other men, go ahead fruit cake. I see like 20 women I want to fuck everyday, I don't do it. I don't act on my urges to start publicly humping them like a dog. It's not too much to ask gays to not hump people and act on their urges as well. I don't know why God gave them those urges, maybe it's because gays were too perfect everywhere else, so he needed to give them a challenge. 

.

God tells Christians not to hate fags.  He wants us to love them, but not in the way your sick mind is thinking 

"God tells Christians not to hate fags."

They follow that as badly as they follow many other moral tenets.

I will ignore the rest of your more stupid personal garbage.

Regards

DL

Thanks for telling me people are bad at being perfect. I didn't know that.

People are the best they can possibly be, at all points in time, given their history.

Even you.

If you want to think properly, read on.

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
 
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
 
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
 
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
 
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
 
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
 
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
 
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
 
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
 
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
 
Regards
DL

 

I don't really disagree with anything you said here. 

Imagine if you are a young boy and there are all kinds of drag queens and buff dudes... that leads you to think men are actually attractive. I believe genes just give you an overall trend, but if the society is so recommending you(m) to marry with women instead of falling in love with fellow men, you end up with women. In many cultures back in the days, such brainwashing actually works.

I know changing sexuality is basically impossible after puberty, but instilling bias when a child is young definitely can change who he prefers. Not saying it is good, it isn't, but it is possible in society.

OP Issues answered directly.

Your inability to understand.

Is because?

I assumed that you were clever enough.

In fact I still do.

But just in case you're not:

Gay sex is a sociological contrivance, relative to sexual necessity and the constraints of human society.

In that sense Gay Sex is both nature and nurture, but definitely no GOD.

And what we are really discussing is the MORALITY of a sex act, relative to the developed constraints and consequential  taboos of human society.

MORALITY is a judgemental concept, also relative to the developed constraints and consequential taboos of human society.

In short....Intelligence comes with a price.

Or more accurately....Our developed ability to acquire, store, modify and output data, inevitably causes us to overthink.....Hence GOD and  MORALITY, which despite a more liberal Western culture, still inhibits freedom of expression and necessitates interminable justification for a sex act.

I do not agree with all you put as we do not understand the changes, and when they happen, to change a DNA from hetero to homo.

I do not think nurture can do what you suggest and make a straight to go gay.

Nurture does not change ones DNA controlled chemistry, which is what determines our sexual preferences.

Regards

DL

You do not help my ability to understand by thinking our sexuality is man made.

Your an intelligent guy, just not too smart.

Your foolish thinking hinders and blocks your understanding.

Regards

DL

"Sexuality" is just another concept,

Relative to a physiological necessity.

Sex acts are real and as such nature.

Settling down with your boyfriend and getting a puppy is seemingly, inevitable overthink.

And you will understand what you want to understand.....Relative to your need to justify what it is you need to justify.

Sadly, you finish with a sarcastic jibe, that clearly speaks volumes about of your own predicament.

Though I would not be so ungracious as to refer to you as foolish.

I think there are multi answers to this question.

Firstly, I would hold the view that the Bible indicates that ALL humans are sinful.  Created very good - without sin and without flaw. Yet with the capacity to both sin and disobey God.  (For me this in more in accord with perfection than for a person to be created without the capacity to sin and to disobey God) 

The Fall of Humanity brought sin into the world as we know it and thereafter all of creation was tainted by sin.  God not being part of creation was not tainted by sin.  

All humanity after Adam and Eve being their progeny were not created directly by God like Adam and Eve.  Although God in his providential manner creates the means therefore of life - it was no longer created in the same sense as in the first creation. Adam and Eve were not created Gay. They were created with the desire for each other - in a monogamous relationship of marriage. 

Their children however were born into the estate of sin due to the translocation of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden into the world.  Sin impacted their children and indeed the creation around them - causing distortion everywhere. Not making everything evil - or as bad as possible - but distorted - and with sin now taking a hold and growing stronger and stronger. 

Sin in that sense - became a decaying force in nature.  Humans did not live as long. Humans became less and less aware and fearful of God.  Humans began more and more to do whatever they liked to whomever they pleased. 

This demonstrates that sin causes humanity to move away from God and further into death. 

So to answer the question: 

Are homosexual natures created by God, by nature or nurture?

They were not created by God.  God created two people directly. Adam and Eve. Both were heterosexual. 

Sinful Nature - A nature that moves away from God and does whatever it likes - may be a contributing factor of how homosexual natures were created.

Does nurture create homosexuality? I don't know. 

In my view - homosexual nature was not created by God.  Humanity now re-creates - not creates - everything in accordance with the sinful nature of humanity. 

New humans are not being created in the same sense as when God created Adam and Eve. Now humans are born from the original creations - but the intervening even between their creation and now is the Fall. 

I would say that the Fall - is a factor which needs to be understood - and factored into the the possibility that people are now born with homosexual natures. 

 

Sin is a concept relative to biblical bollocks.

And people have been fiddling with each others bollocks and bits, ever since they realised it was temporarily satisfying.

this brings up the question if god didn't want homosexuals to exist why did god created homosexual animals  ?

Indeed.

The religious have no answers except for discrimination without a just cause.

Regards

DL

Many issues you bring up.

Christians call Eden a fall, while at the same time sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

Perhaps that is why the Jews who wrote the myth called it Original Virtue and our elevation, not our fall.

 

What position are you favoring and accepting?

Regards

DL

"In my view - homosexual nature was not created by God. "

Who is God's co-creator then?

Regards

DL

I disagree with you. 

I know of no Christian group which sings of Adam's sin as a happy fault.  Please provide some evidence for that particular view.  Was it necessary for God's plan?  That is a different question for a different topic.   God created humanity very good. He did not create a homosexual nature. 

The Jews might call it something else and hold a different view. That is their prerogative. It is not the Christian position however. 

I accept that God created humanity very good. Humanity fell into the estate of sin. I accept this was a bad thing.  Not to be celebrated but to be acknowledged and understood as in doing so - provides us with the explanation of why Jesus came to this world and died on a cross.  

Humanity from the fall on - is not very good. It is now dead in its trespasses. Essentially zombies for want of a better word. Distorted from what God created them to be. 

It is only as life is breathed into them again - by the Holy Spirit that people stop being zombies - or dead men walking. 

The notion of homosexual nature is therefore a red herring and irrelevant. ALL humans - heterosexual and homosexual are distorted by sin.  All humans need Christ to redeem them and to breath life into them by the Spirit of God.  A heterosexual sinner is as condemned as a homosexual sinner.  Neither have a higher moral ground.