Ron DeSantis should be kissing Trump’s ass

Author: Double_R

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#1
Double_R
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Much has been made lately about the apparent growing feud between Trump and DeSantis. And while most on the right still support Trump, many feel that DeSantis is a much stronger candidate and want him to run.

I have to say, I find the idea of a DeSantis challenge to be a terrible idea and think he should be kissing Trump’s ass instead. Here’s the reality; DeSantis can win against Biden or anyone else the democrats nominate, but he can’t or at least won’t win without Trump. We all know Trump is a narcissistic child who cares more about himself than anything or anyone else. If DeSantis beat Trump in a primary Trump would never let that down, he would never support him, he’ll claim the Republican Party rigged the primaries and then declare war on the whole party. And with all of that, he will take all his die hard supporters with him, which is a pretty significant portion of the electorate in a close race which is likely no matter who the nominees are.

Given this reality, I don’t see why DeSantis isn’t doing everything he can to get on Trump’s good graces and convince him that he could carry his torch forward. The only chance he has of being president (at least in 2024) is for Trump to willingly step to the side.

Thoughts?
#2
Wylted
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This is what people that dislike Trump Don't understand. Trump is not in charge of his movement. He was a tool, because people are sick of the Washington elite, fucking things up. This is why he was booed by his own crowd when he told them all to get vaccinated at a recent rally. 

DeSantis is based, and will just take the Trump crowd from him. None of Trump's crying will get taken seriously from his supporters. 

It's because we all know that, DeSantis is like Trump, but more politically savvy, less narcissistic and would be more effective at going to war with the Washington elite, than he was. 

I guess, Thanks Trump. Thanks for creating a movement, so we could have the ability to place DeSantis in office. Before you, there was no way, DeSantis could have accomplished this. 

I'm in Florida, and can tell you. We know DeSantis, and even the people with Trump bumper stickers here, will vote DeSantis over Trump. 
#3
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Here is what will happen. DeSantis will steal Trump's support once everyone figures out, what he is. On the off chance Trump win, he'll need DeSantis as a Vp
#4
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@Wylted
DeSantis can’t beat Trump in a primary. Even in Florida, Trump would win against him. Even Marco lost to Trump in Florida and he won convincingly in 2016 on the same ticket as Trump
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#5
Double_R
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@Wylted
This is what people that dislike Trump Don't understand. Trump is not in charge of his movement. He was a tool, because people are sick of the Washington elite, fucking things up. This is why he was booed by his own crowd when he told them all to get vaccinated at a recent rally. 
This is why I said he would take his *die hard* supporters with him, which I described as a significant portion of his base. By significant, I am talking about enough to make a difference in a close national race, which is likely in 2024 no matter what happens.

No one is claiming all his supporters will follow him no matter what, but you can’t seriously argue that if he were to claim the republicans primaries were rigged, a sizable portion of the Republican electorate would not suddenly adopt that same view, where as if he conceded almost no one would. He clearly has pull.
#6
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@Double_R
Would you prefer Trump of DeSantis as the Republican nominee?
#7
Wylted
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@Double_R
No one is claiming all his supporters will follow him no matter what, but you can’t seriously argue that if he were to claim the republicans primaries were rigged, a sizable portion of the Republican electorate would not suddenly adopt that same view, where as if he conceded almost no one would. He clearly has pull.
I legitimately think he would be laughed at. This isn't 2016, and a these people are not loyal to Trump. Trump is just the flag they carry. These people are more loyal to being antiestablishmentarians than Trumpers. Ron DeSantis is probably the only other candidate, the trumpets would get behind, but they do it. 

Every other yard here, already has signs that say Trump/DeSantis 2024
#8
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@thett3
Would you prefer Trump of DeSantis as the Republican nominee?

Are you asking which he would prefer in order to give Dems the best chance to win or who he would mind less as POTUS if he had to choose between the two?
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@Wylted
DeSantis is based, and will just take the Trump crowd from him. None of Trump's crying will get taken seriously from his supporters. 
I hope you're right. It will be an interesting social experiment, seeing whether or not Trump's cult of personality can be broken. 
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#10
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@thett3
Would you prefer Trump of DeSantis as the Republican nominee?
Tough one.

I’m staunchly against today’s Republican Party, so my vote is for whichever will be more likely to lose.

Given everything I said at the top, I believe that’s DeSantis. I believe not only will Trump’s narcissism keep a portion of those voters from coming out, but DeSantis has no appeal outside of the already committed political right. I find nothing about him likable or charismatic.

I view Trump as more of a risk though. If DeSantis won the presidency, I would have more confidence in him to actually care about the constitution and the country. Trump has never read it and couldn’t give a shit about anything in it. He cares about himself, full stop.

So I guess either way I’d say Desantis.
#11
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@Double_R
The fact that he isn't kissing ass should make it abundantly clear he is considering primarying Trump.
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@Wylted
This is what people that dislike Trump Don't understand. Trump is not in charge of his movement. He was a tool, because people are sick of the Washington elite, fucking things up. This is why he was booed by his own crowd when he told them all to get vaccinated at a recent rally. 

DeSantis is based, and will just take the Trump crowd from him. None of Trump's crying will get taken seriously from his supporters. 

It's because we all know that, DeSantis is like Trump, but more politically savvy, less narcissistic and would be more effective at going to war with the Washington elite, than he was. 

I guess, Thanks Trump. Thanks for creating a movement, so we could have the ability to place DeSantis in office. Before you, there was no way, DeSantis could have accomplished this. 

I'm in Florida, and can tell you. We know DeSantis, and even the people with Trump bumper stickers here, will vote DeSantis over Trump. 

Exactly. The movement doesn't need Trump. In 2016, he may have had a monopoly on the 3rd rail issues, but now he has competition.

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#13
Double_R
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@Wylted
I legitimately think he would be laughed at. This isn't 2016, and a these people are not loyal to Trump.
Over the past 6 years I’ve watched as Trump lead the way in shattering everything that was once considered normal. Trump calls the media fake news, suddenly the idea of a free and fair press being essential to American life goes out the window. Trump is a juvenile asshole, suddenly it’s no longer toxic in politics to be a juvenile asshole. Trump buys into conspiracy theories, suddenly Alex Jones gets catipulted into being legitimate figure. Trump says the election is stolen, suddenly conceding an election and congratulating your opponent goes from a sacred American tradition to a sign of political weakness.

To say Trump himself is not leading the way is pretty absurd, no one else in the history of American politics could ever get away with a fraction of this until he came along.  At best you can say his base always believed these things but didn’t come out until Trump came along, but that doesn’t strengthen your case at all. Because if that’s so then Trump is the man responsible for showing these people that they don’t have to hide in the political shadows anymore. They get to be who they really are which is how many political analysts explain the cult of Trump, and it makes perfect sense. If that view is right then these people are indebted to Trump in a way no one else could ever make up for. They will never abandon him.

And once again, we’re not talking about the majority of even the republicans, just enough to make a difference in a close national race.
#14
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@Wylted
I also really liked Youngkin's speech where he gave zero fucks to Trump. Youngkin's win without Trump's support is a clear signal that the magic is gone from the Orangeman. 

DeSantis should easily be able to repeat what Youngkin did.
#15
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@Greyparrot
I also really liked Youngkin's speech where he gave zero fucks to Trump. Youngkin's win without Trump's support is a clear signal that the magic is gone from the Orangeman. 
Or it’s just a midterm race where the President’s party declines significantly in terms of voting. In a turnout competition, DeSantis doesn’t even come close to Trump. Media is gonna be nationally demonizing DeSantis anyways. Hell they’ve already begun.

DeSantis should easily be able to repeat what Youngkin did.

I disagree. Media attention wasn’t that high on Youngkin as it was on Trump and as it will be on DeSantis.
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Media attention

Bad coverage is better than no coverage.
#17
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Bad coverage is better than no coverage.
No coverage is how there’s a GOP Trifecta in Executive Offices right now.
#18
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I actually agree 100% with Double_R here. All the people who think DeSantis has a chance usually have one or more of the following three characteristics:

- Were party loyalists to the pre-Trump GOP
- Tied in to suburban culture
- Tied to Florida

What all of these people fail to realize is that the blue wall fell in 2016 because Trump drew independents and blue dog voters, and he did it through force of personality and a unique political package. DeSantis is a competent guy with decent political instincts, but he's following tracks that Trump laid down and does not have the force of personality required to replicate Trump's fervent support, especially in the rust belt. People in this group LOVED the way the Trump trashed the Bush legacy and trashed half the GOP candidates while thoroughly domesticating the other half, because they HATE the old 'gosh gee willikers, I'm an old fashioned guy, lets ship your jobs to China, send your kids to Iraq, and deregulate Wall Street' GOP. People who liked that GOP and see Trump as nothing more than a rebranding catalyst do not have a firm grasp on what Trump actually did to the party. Trump earned these voters' loyalty by bloodying that beast's nose in a very public way. DeSantis has not done this, and he likely will not do it. Suburban people heavily overestimate how much Trump's 'tweeting' and 'grotesque mannerisms' hurt him at the polls, because they live in a very gentile and isolated bubble that doesn't represent how the rest of the country talks about and to one another. I think many of them also are coping on a personal level - they're tired of having to defend Trump's uncouth behavior at cocktail parties and will lie to themselves about the real political situation in hopes of getting someone who shares their gentile mannerisms, someone who won't cause personal social friction for them. Floridians overestimate the damage the this split would cause because DeSantis has his strongest following there.

In reality it would be horrible for the GOP if DeSantis tried to primary Trump mostly because DeSantis is the first choice for Trump's successor in 2028. I know huge amounts of people up here who would gladly vote for DeSantis if Trump wouldn't run, but who would look very, very dimly on him turning on Trump after Trump pretty much annointed him - DeSantis already has a charisma deficiency, this would make him seem like a backstabbing rat to a huge portion of Trump's base and would actually fracture the populist movement in the US and severely weaken it, possibly even killing it in its cradle. It's a bad move on every level. If DeSantis simply waits for four more years he could become the 'Donald-Approved' heir and inherit the goodwill of the entire movement. By trying to cut in line there's a good chance that he completely destroys it.

#19
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100% agree with REF.

DeSantis has only 2 paths to victory: Wisconsin with WOW or NV + NH while getting AZ, GA, and NC.
#20
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@Double_R
Do you not think that De Santis will continue to alienate the moderate voter?

After all, it is the moderate centre that decides elections.

Or do you think that Far Right candidates, will prove more attractive next time?

Or are there just no moderate Republicans available.

Does the average Joe or Jodie or gender neutral, only worry about guns and abortion?


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I’m really not clear what you’re asking. I think DeSantis will turn off moderates in a general election, but I was talking about what is likely to happen within the GOP.
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this would make him seem like a backstabbing rat 

Nah Fam. A backstabbing rat would be the John McCain moment where he voted against Trump policies cause he hates the man. People care much more about policy infidelities over petty hero worship. That goes for both sides. You saw what they did to Manchin and Sinema. DeSantis has shown zero Disloyalty over every key Trump policy. That's more than enough to win the primary.
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@Greyparrot
Nah Fam. A backstabbing rat would be the John McCain moment where he voted against Trump policies cause he hates the man. People care much more about policy infidelities over petty hero worship. That goes for both sides. You saw what they did to Manchin and Sinema. DeSantis has shown zero Disloyalty over every key Trump policy. That's more than enough to win the primary.
This is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how most people think about politics, probably born out of your own preoccupation with policy. People view politics in a personal way and usually don't give two fucks about policy wonkery. Trump people love DeSantis when he is the 'successor', the mini-Trump in Florida, the viceroy to a swaggering, arrogant Trump enthroned among a sea of shrieking beltway swamp creatures. Most of the people in the area I grew up in, a swing country in a swing rust belt state, voted Trump by pretty large margins. I've talked to them about it. It is largely a personality cult. They like Trump's Borscht Belt schtick, they like his swagger, they like that he enrages their enemies inside the beltway, they like his mannerisms and his jokes, his brusque personality. They like Trump, and they like people who are on Trump's side. If DeSantis ran against Trump, all Trump would have to do is go on the road and do his 'The Snake' bit, but bemoan at the end that he trusted DeSantis and ended up being bitten. It would be demotic, it would be Caesarean, but it would work and it would stick to DeSantis like glue. Two thirds of Republicans believe that the election was stolen. Avenging the Stolen Election is something mythic, something that electrifies people on a personal level and galvanizes them to political action. If that perceived noble endeavor fails due to DeSantis shivving Trump in the back, it would end very, very badly for DeSantis.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
 People view politics in a personal way and usually don't give two fucks about policy wonkery. 

I mean I could just say you're dead wrong about that, but 2016 proved without question that a person who made a speculative investment about which 3rd rail policies he could monopolize on when NOBODY else would touch them proves policy indeed DOES matter.
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@Double_R
I understand that.

I was merely suggesting that De Santis is too right wing and unappealing to the moderate public.

In a two party system it's not the died in the wool voter that the GOP needs to appeal too.


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#26
Double_R
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@zedvictor4
Agreed. The only reason I think DeSantis might have a chance in the general is because of the fierce division in our current politics which only strengthens the pendulum effect. DeSantis is a terrible candidate for reasons I believe I already mentioned. The difference between him and Trump is that Trump really is as dumb as he sounds so his positions don’t come off as disingenuous and insidious as it does for Desantis.
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@Greyparrot
I mean I could just say you're dead wrong about that, but 2016 proved without question that a person who made a speculative investment about which 3rd rail policies he could monopolize on when NOBODY else would touch them proves policy indeed DOES matter.
But people had touched those third rail policies before. Ron Paul touched America First foreign policy. There have been plenty of immigration restrictionists (hell, even Bill Clinton wanted to 'build a wall'). Trade protectionism - ever heard of Ralph Nader? And Pat Buchanan more than touched all three. What Trump brought to the Republican party was a deep understanding of branding, and his own personal brand developed over decades in the public eye. Trump coming down the escalator was a unique moment - it absolutely electrified the political environment in this country in a way that hadn't happened in my lifetime. It was powerful, and it was personal.
#28
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@Double_R
I agree.
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#29
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Trump definitely understands branding, but I think you give him way too much credit. The man gets away with what he does because he is a perfect storm. His lifetime of conning everyone to believe he was richer than he actually was is what allowed him to build his empire to what it became, which allowed him to pass himself off as a business genius. Yet at the same time he comes off as a complete imbecile who might actually be dumb enough to believe the stupid things he is saying, which people could overlook because of his fake business acumen. So what we get is someone who is both dumb enough to champion ideas which dumb Americans approve of, and yet smart and successful enough to make the dumb people think this is reality.

No one else could get away with that because the smart ones couldn’t pass themselves off as genuine enough to believe this stuff, and the dumb ones would never have such a strong background to hold up as their resume.

So sure, branding is part of it but without the imbecilic aspect of this the man would have gotten no where. And I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the intention.
#30
Mharman
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I kinda like both. I wish they would work together.