Does your ideology have an, -- Engage and Fight Evil --, side?

Author: GnosticChristianBishop

Posts

Total: 90
#31
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


.
Miss Tradesecret,

Oh, oh, you are sheepishly RUNNING AWAY once again from one of my Religious Factual Posts relative to where I owned your biblical stupidity and ignorance outright upon the topic at hand, where this one is in my post #26 within this thread shown in the link below.  Jesus and I thank you for admitting that you had to run away from my post in question because your perceived biblical knowledge is in no way even close to my superior knowledge of the JUDEO-Christian Bible, good girl!  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7202/post-links/317524

Remember dear, you are a second class woman as your biography shows you to be herewith; https://ibb.co/NFcsLgy and before you comically changed your gender to "unknown" as shown herewith: https://www.debateart.com/profiles/Tradesecret Therefore you continue to go directly against Jesus' COMMAND for a woman like you to not teach, nor usurp the authority over the superior man, but to remain SILENT!  “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp the authority over man, BUT TO BE IN SILENCE.” (Timothy 2:12)

Well, once again in your embarrassment, your assumed biblical knowledge is no match for mine as shown by you having to run away and hide from my post #26 in this thread, then you continue to slap Jesus in the face as a known woman for not following His direct command in His inspired words in Timothy 2:12, and then you want to call yourself a Christian???!!!  NOT! ROFLOL!!!   Dear, Jesus and I will continue to show your biblical cluelessness is totally without bounds, and at your continued expense! 

NEXT?


.







#32
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen
@Tradesecret


.
Stephen,

As we have become aware, Miss Tradesecret got into Christianity and was spoon-fed it's doctrine. Then, obviously when she started to read the JUDEO-Christian Bible on her own, she ran across disturbing biblical axioms that embarrassingly did not relate to Jesus as was taught to her in the beginning. Therefore, to try and remove these disturbing passages and narratives towards Jesus, she joined the ranks of being a pseudo-christian apologist and learned about Satanic hermeneutics to try and remove said disturbing facts about our serial killer Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate!  Case in point, look at her comical pretzel turning "convenient Satanic interpretations" she uses to take away the displeasing modus operandi of Jesus and His inspired words! Priceless!

I went through the same ordeal when I became a TRUE Christian, because I just accepted Jesus in the disturbing ways that were LITERALLY stated about Him, and this is only because of the biblical fact that there  will be NO WOMEN in heaven that I look forward too upon my demise, obviously because it was enough to put with these second class Sisters of Eve while upon earth, praise Jesus!

“It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.” (Proverbs 21:9)


.
#33
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
Remember dear, you are a second class woman as your biography shows you to be herewith; https://ibb.co/NFcsLgy


Therefore, to try and remove these disturbing passages and narratives towards Jesus, she joined the ranks of being a pseudo-christian apologist and learned about Satanic hermeneutics to try and remove said disturbing facts about our serial killer Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate! 

Well of course Brother, that will depend on the Reverend Munchhausen's definition of "second class"  and the word "woman" compared to your own and the universal accepted definitions.

For instance, watch the Reverend Munchhausen, a  student of English, Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew defining for us two simple words   beginning with C & D using  his unique "scientific methodology" ;





#34
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@Tradesecret
Nope - you are totally wrong. The Bible is not homophobic. 
then why do you want gays to burn in hell
#35
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Bones
I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell.  
#36
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
Christianity engages and fights evil. 

Can you define Evil for us?

And how does Christianity  go about engaging and fighting Evil?
#37
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
Christianity engages and fights evil. 

Can you define Evil for us?
I define evil as the absence of good. Just like darkness is the absence of light.  Since God is only good - it is where ever people don't submit to God's rule. 


And how does Christianity  go about engaging and fighting Evil?
The answer to this - is preaching the gospel.  Calling for people to repent of their sin and to turn to Jesus. 
#38
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret

Christianity engages and fights evil. 

Can you define Evil for us?
I define evil as the absence of good. 
Wasn't too difficult was it.

We agree then. Although I asked you exactly the same question nearly a month & 33 posts ago  and you continued to procrastinate on the question.

I posted this over page at #3
KJV dictionary defines evil

Having bad qualities of a natural kind; mischievous; having qualities which tend to injury, or to produce mischief.
Having bad qualities of a moral kind; wicked; corrupt; perverse; wrong; as evil thoughts; evil deeds; evil speaking; an evil generation.
Unfortunate; unhappy; producing sorrow, distress, injury or calamity; as evil tidings; evil arrows; evil days.

So, looking at that it simply means anything not good.#3
You could have simply said that you agree with me & the KJV dictionary way back then. 

Anyway..


And how does Christianity  go about engaging and fighting Evil?
The answer to this - is preaching the gospel. .....


The gospel;  those will be the words and teachings of Jesus? 


 


#39
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


.
Miss Tradesecret,

YOUR INEPT QUOTE IN POST #35 RELATIVE TO YOU NOT WANTING GAYS TO BURN IN HELL, WHERE YOU WILL BE UPON YOUR DEMISE: "I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell."  


Now you are calling Jesus' inspired words as NONSENSE when He wants gays and slurpies to either burn in hell, or should die while upon earth!:  "For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet . . . Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them" (Romans 1:26-27)

Miss Tradesecret, do the simple math Bible fool, gays and slurpies are too die when Jesus' inspired words state: "that they which commit such things are worthy of death,"as explained in the passage in question, when they are on earth, or when they are hell bound upon their earthly demise in the passage above, get it? Therefore it is NOT nonsense for Jesus wanting them murdered for their sexual transgressions!

Again, you show the membership that you took your "Bible Stupid Pills" again with yet another vacuous quote of yours shown above!  Priceless. LOL!

Now, do your normal routine, and RUN AWAY from yet another post of mine to you showing your complete Biblical stupidity!


NEXT?
.
Topic's author
#40
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Tradesecret
Our friend is not a dunce.

He just does not want to face the reality of how vile Christianity is today and Yahweh has always been.

It was great in the past but is now moral garbage.

Regards
DL
#41
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
Our friend is not a dunce.

He just does not want to face the reality of how vile Christianity is today and Yahweh has always been.

No he [Brother D Thomas]isn't a dunce.  Far from it. He may not like it, but he accepts the fact that god is as vile as the BIBLE portrays him to be .  The Reverend Munchhausen Tradesecret on the other hand, is in complete denial of the BIBLICAL facts.

#42
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
Our friend is not a dunce.
Perhaps the word dunce is uncalled for. Nevertheless, given the comments and vileness that he throws and with the obvious façade of his persona, then I am entitled to reflect upon the fact that lacks credibility.

 
He just does not want to face the reality of how vile Christianity is today and Yahweh has always been.
I must disagree with part of your comment.  I agree that the Brother does not wish to face the reality of Christianity and of God.  Yet he seems to only demonstrate a knowledge of misnomas of those things. His continual regurgitating of strawman arguments proves this without fail.  Christianity is not vile now. It was never vile in the past. And nor has God been.  The only people who might suggest such a thing are those who have fallen beneath God's judgment. Or wish that if they wish really hard - they might avoid it.  



It was great in the past but is now moral garbage.
Christianity has never been great.  It has always been humble.   God is Great. Therein lies the difference. 
#43
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
YOUR INEPT QUOTE IN POST #35 RELATIVE TO YOU NOT WANTING GAYS TO BURN IN HELL, WHERE YOU WILL BE UPON YOUR DEMISE: "I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell."  

Now you are calling Jesus' inspired words as NONSENSE when He wants gays and slurpies to either burn in hell, or should die while upon earth!: 
Brother, if you could read - which quite honestly, I think you really struggle with any sentence of more than two words.  You would have noticed that I was responding to Bones.  He asked me - a question that honestly was a presumption.  I responded with my view - which I repeat - "I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell."   

This has nothing to do with the words of Jesus - nor has it anything to do with what Jesus wants or considers just. It was and remains my personal response to the question that Bones asked me. I don't want gays to burn in Hell.  Read it again. I don't want anyone to burn in Hell.  You pulling a verse out and suggesting I am calling Jesus' words nonsense is typical of the terrible way in which you read anything.  I told Bones it was nonsense for him to ask why gays should be burnt in Hell. It is nonsense. I have never said anywhere that I want gays to burn in Hell. I challenge you if you are up to it - which you are not of course - to find anywhere where I have said that I want gays to burn in Hell.  And you won't find it. Because I have never said it or suggested it. as I said to Bones - it is nonsense.  And it is presumed by people like Bones and like you who DONT actually know how to read properly. 


The rest of your gibberish has no need for me to respond to since it is all premised on your misunderstanding and misreading of my reply to Bones. 

#44
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
I'm not your lackey. You finally asked a question that required a response.

As I have said before - I answer when I am ready to - not just because you "DEMAND".  


Topic's author
#45
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Tradesecret
If your genocidal prick is great to you, you show your low moral standard.

Christians are such liars, they are hardly worth talking to.

As to Jesus, care to discuss your poor moral thinking and how you have to sin to be saved, as you ask Jesus to ignore his own laws?

--------
On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
 
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL
#46
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,597
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop


WELL-THOUGHT-OUT !
#47
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
Absolutely.
#48
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@Tradesecret
I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell.  
Let me rephrase - you want homosexual couples who engage in sex to burn in hell
#49
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret



I'm not your lackey. You finally asked a question that required a response.
"FINALLY!!!? 
Just cannot help yourself can you Reverend Munchausen.

My point was that you HAD responded to my own and  that of GnosticChristianBishop initial question concerning the word - evil - BUT with a billion  longwinded statements and questions of your own here> #2 here #14 here#15here#17 & here#21  until burying the initial (unanswered) question asked at post #3.  in a response telling us that we " had to answer your own questions first" when you could have simply give the straight and clear answer at the time instead of some weeks and 33 post later as you now finally have done so here>> #38,  this is what I mean by your intentional procrastination.


And how does Christianity  go about engaging and fighting Evil?
The answer to this - is preaching the gospel. .....


The gospel;  those will be the words and teachings of Jesus? 










#50
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

  A+1 Post.

 I covered those points sometime ago in a thread of my own about two years ago.

I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.
I said then:   the idea  that I would ask or want  anyone to suffer for my crimes or sins is abhorrent and it appals me.  Neither my brother nor Jesus is my keeper. And I will suffer and       `bare my own cross, '   as it is I  that  am responsible for my own actions.  

Notice in that thread  the Reverend Munchhausen attempts to replace my two initial questions with question/s of his own #13 



#51
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3

Having another person suffer or die for my wrong  so i might escape responsibility for having done them is immoral .
However 
The bloke that dies for you comes back to life 3 days later. 
so before it gets to being moral or immoral the question is Mortal  or Immortal.  
If he is immortal it would be immoral for him not to do what he thought was good. 

Actually i need more time thinking about this. 



Good game.
Good game. 
#52
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3

A preist of three plus years has the ability to turn normal water into holy water. 
So they could go to the beach , bless the water and secretly baptize people.  
Is this Good or bad ?
Should they.  
#53
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Being baptized at a age where one can describe the feeling of it . The stories of it are truly ummm inspirational , an amazing feeling.

What would it feel like being secretly baptized ?    


Topic's author
#54
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
There is more than one Jesus portrayed in the bible.

The Rome created Jesus wants slaves to religion, while the Gnostic Christian free thinker wants to free us from religions.

Should the religious and non-religious people wish to be slaved or freed?

Should people fear the governments and religions, or have them fear us?

Why should people give up their autonomy?

We should not.

If we are to be in God's image, we should act like it. 

Regards
DL


Topic's author
#55
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Thanks for this.

I have some reading to do.

Regards
DL
#56
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret
@Bones


.
Miss Tradesecret,

First things first, since you are in discussion with men within this forum, therefore you go directly against Jesus' command in Timothy 2:12 since you are explicitly shown to be a woman in this link;  https://ibb.co/NFcsLgy and where YOU are therefore not to usurp the authority, nor teach, but to remain silent when around men within this forum!  


Addressing your misconstrued post #43;

YOUR QUOTE OF CONTINUING TO STEP IN THE PROVERBIAL POO AGAIN:  "Brother, if you could read - which quite honestly, I think you really struggle with any sentence of more than two words.  You would have noticed that I was responding to Bones.  He asked me - a question that honestly was a presumption.  I responded with my view - which I repeat - "I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell."   

Listen up Bible fool WOMAN, it matters NOT whether Bones presented a presumption to you in the manner shown, because nonetheless you stated it was NONSENSE to "assumably" YOU, where in FACT, and in addition, it was not nonsense to Jesus' wants as I had shown your continued Bible ignorance, do you understand WOMAN?   Jesus H. Christ, how dumbfounded are you continually going to be as a woman in front of the membership and Jesus (Hebrews 4:13) is beyond reason!


Miss Tradesecret, since you always leave out the main premise of my posts in HIDING from them as usual, where in this instance, Jesus wanting gays and slurpies to DIE, I will post said verse again which YOU did not include in your misconstrued post #43  and is one of many showing Jesus wanting death for homosexuals:  "For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet . . . Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them" (Romans 1:26-27)


Of note, Jesus and I are pleased that I easily "smoked you out" in my post #31 in this thread in addressing you HIDING from my godly posts directed to YOU, where one you hid from for 12 days!  Whereas you obviously were too embarrassed not to address them now because it showed your true MO of being the #1 runaway from biblical axioms in this Religion Forum, good girl Miss Tradesecret!   https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7202/post-links/317572


"A quarrelsome wife is as annoying as constant dripping on a rainy day. Stopping her complaints is like trying to stop the wind or trying to hold something with greased hands." (Proverbs 27:15-16) 


NEXT BIBLE RUNAWAY FOOL WOMAN LIKE TRADESECRET THAT GOES AGAINST JESUS' TIMOTHY 2:12 WILL BE ...?



#57
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
If your genocidal prick is great to you, you show your low moral standard.
So why don't you start by providing the only correct and absolute moral standard?  Oh wait - you can't. Because without God there can be no absolute standard and all moral standards become subjective. Great win there boss.  

Christians are such liars, they are hardly worth talking to.
I'm not a liar.  And to be perfectly candid - if someone is a liar - they are not a Christian.  A liar by the way is not someone who tells a lie. A liar is someone who is characterized by lying.  


As to Jesus, care to discuss your poor moral thinking and how you have to sin to be saved, as you ask Jesus to ignore his own laws?
I'm keen to discuss Jesus. 


--------
On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.
It would be nice if you actually understood Christian doctrine. Christians do not teach or believe that God died.  Jesus the Christ died. 
Secondly, humanity chose of its own free will to rebel - knowing full well the consequences of its actions. It was not condemned unjustly - but fully justly. 

Thirdly, what is justice? And why couldn't justice be satisfied by someone else apart from the person who owed the debt.  A bank who is owed money by someone - is very much going to take payment from anyone who pays for it - not just the person who owes it.  Justice is necessary when a law is broken. Why? When you figure that out - you will see why your last statement is NOT WELL THOUGHT OUT and inconsistent with pretty much every culture in history. 

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.
Christians have not swallowed a lie.  They recognize what they can do and what they can't do. They recognize what they are culpable for and what they can actually do about it.   I don't consider Jesus evil at all. I think Jesus is the king of the universe.  Jesus' gift to me is a free gift. I couldn't earn it. Or pay for it myself. It would be arrogant to think I did not need Jesus to help me. Just as it is arrogant for people to think they can live without God. God is the only independent being in existence. The rest of us are totally dependent upon him even to breathe. It is the apex of arrogance to think you could satisfy God yourself. 

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
According to which ABSOLUTE moral law?  If justice demands death of my son for his crimes and if I choose to die for him in his place - that is my choice. It is not my son's choice.  My son would in fact not give me the choice. He would tell me that he is going to die for his own offence and that there is no way that he is going to let me die for him.  Yet, when I don't give him a choice - and I die and the judge is satisfied, what is immoral about that? In fact - if the judge saw me take my life in order to pay for the offence - and then went ahead and killed my son anyway - that would be immoral. Jesus never sat down and asked me permission to die for me. He never did that for anyone.  Jesus did not need to ask our permission.  Yet he has paid for our sins - of his own choice.  For me not to trust him - for what he has done - would be immoral. For me not to acknowledge that his gift was generous would be stupid. For me to know that he has paid my debt and then still go ahead and make another payment is stupid.  Whatever the situation - Jesus dying for my sins is not immoral. 


To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.
On the contrary - to pay the bank manager twice is stupid. To go ahead and suffer for what ever has already been paid is dumb. That is the immoral part. You have it absolutely upside down.  Justice demands that my sins make me culpable.  If I abdicated my responsibility you might have a point. But how do I abdicate any of this is someone has already paid the debt?  The bank manager or the judge just wants to be satisfied.  If Jesus had asked me if I wanted him to die for me - I would have said no. But he did not ask me. Hence it is impossible for me to abdicate any responsibility. Since when the time comes for me to go before the court - I am told to go - since I am not guilty.  

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Christians do not intentionally ignore Jesus' words. 

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 
v. 20 is the answer the question posed in v. 2 asks.  The sour grapes proverb. It is an answer that intentionally opens the door to divine mercy see 21-24. Ezekiel rejects cosmic determinism, the fatalism as presented by some. Rather than putting Christians into a difficult situation it rightly speaks to the grace that God pours out upon his people - an undeserved gift - through Jesus. Justice and Mercy go hand in hand. But there can be no mercy without justice . 

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
 Absolutely and totally agree. This is why Christians speak of Sin and Sins.   There is the original sin - or sometimes known as total depravity of sin. Not that everyone is as evil as they could possibly be - but rather tainted by that sin - like one drop of ink placed into a glass of water taints the entire glass of water without turning it all into ink.  Yet who would drink it? Even though it probably wouldn't even be tasted.  This original sin placed all humanity into an estate of sin. It is inherited by covenantal means.  Yet this estate is not the same as sins. Sins are what people - all people every person - do. These are the concrete express or implied fruits of that estate of sin.  Deuteronomy is talking about sins, not sin. It is talking about people being responsible for their own sin. Of course - this verse does not rule out mercy or grace. It merely and rightly says that people should be responsible for their own sins. 


Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
And yet even in that Psalm - just a few verses later in Psalm 49:15 the answer is given.  "But God will redeem my life from the grave; he will surely take me to himself".  No ordinary human will by any means redeem his brother. Just like no ordinary goat was able to be the scapegoat. It needed to pure and undefiled. Yet Jesus was no ordinary human.  He is the Christ.  It is Christ - the anointed one. The messiah - The God MAN who alone - is able to redeem anyone.  It is the God Man who saves.  

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.
Christians - following Jesus do teach the concept of redemption. We teach mercy and grace. All men deserve death. That is the teaching of the Bible. And that is totally just.   Yet - we also teach that where there is law and where there is justice - there is also mercy and grace.  Mercy and Grace that is meted out by God The Saviour of the World.  

Thanks for the opportunity to partially explain this. 

#58
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
First things first, since you are in discussion with men within this forum, therefore you go directly against Jesus' command in Timothy 2:12 since you are explicitly shown to be a woman in this link;  https://ibb.co/NFcsLgy and where YOU are therefore not to usurp the authority, nor teach, but to remain silent when around men within this forum!  


Addressing your misconstrued post #43;

YOUR QUOTE OF CONTINUING TO STEP IN THE PROVERBIAL POO AGAIN:  "Brother, if you could read - which quite honestly, I think you really struggle with any sentence of more than two words.  You would have noticed that I was responding to Bones.  He asked me - a question that honestly was a presumption.  I responded with my view - which I repeat - "I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell."   

Listen up Bible fool WOMAN, it matters NOT whether Bones presented a presumption to you in the manner shown, because nonetheless you stated it was NONSENSE to "assumably" YOU, where in FACT, and in addition, it was not nonsense to Jesus' wants as I had shown your continued Bible ignorance, do you understand WOMAN?   Jesus H. Christ, how dumbfounded are you continually going to be as a woman in front of the membership and Jesus (Hebrews 4:13) is beyond reason!


Miss Tradesecret, since you always leave out the main premise of my posts in HIDING from them as usual, where in this instance, Jesus wanting gays and slurpies to DIE, I will post said verse again which YOU did not include in your misconstrued post #43  and is one of many showing Jesus wanting death for homosexuals:  "For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet . . . Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them" (Romans 1:26-27)


Of note, Jesus and I are pleased that I easily "smoked you out" in my post #31 in this thread in addressing you HIDING from my godly posts directed to YOU, where one you hid from for 12 days!  Whereas you obviously were too embarrassed not to address them now because it showed your true MO of being the #1 runaway from biblical axioms in this Religion Forum, good girl Miss Tradesecret!   https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7202/post-links/317572


"A quarrelsome wife is as annoying as constant dripping on a rainy day. Stopping her complaints is like trying to stop the wind or trying to hold something with greased hands." (Proverbs 27:15-16) 


NEXT BIBLE RUNAWAY FOOL WOMAN LIKE TRADESECRET THAT GOES AGAINST JESUS' TIMOTHY 2:12 WILL BE ...?

Already answered. You have not provided any further information to discuss. If this continues I shall take it as a forfeit on your part. 
#59
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
The gospel;  those will be the words and teachings of Jesus? 
Well, that would be one simplistic way of looking at it. I take the view that the entire Bible - both OT and NT are the gospel. All the words, from beginning to the end. 

But I also take the view that the gospel may well just be referring to the fact that Jesus died and rose again. 

Or John 3:16 is another way to express the gospel. 

It really depends on the context. 

In my paragraph above - I was talking about all of the above.  Preaching the gospel is promoting Jesus and his kingdom - proclaiming the truth about humanity's sin and hopelessness. Proclaiming the truth about Jesus' righteousness. Proclaiming the FACT that all will be judged, including the devil. 
#60
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Bones
I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell.  
Let me rephrase - you want homosexual couples who engage in sex to burn in hell
Well let me respond once again.  Nonsense.  I don't want anyone to burn in Hell including homosexual couples who engage in sex. 

And let me reiterate something else.  God does not want people to burn in Hell either.  

And although that sounds strange to the cynical. Do you think that any judge actually wants someone to be put in prison? Or do you think that judges especially righteous judges would prefer for people to do the right thing?  

I want that everyone everywhere loves God and to enjoy his blessings.