Mod Issues

Author: Mikal

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#1
Mikal
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The locking of the thread below is primarily what is wrong with this site and why there is no activity, it's also why airmax should be elected. When 2 people are engaging in a back and forth and participating in it, let it go on. 

This is the type of over moderation that makes this place dull and a husk of DDO. At some point moderation needs to step back and let members handle their own shit until it becomes actual harassment. Who gives a dick if it's a call out thread. It's a debate website. 

Seriously ever major member I've talked to has the same complaint and if we start getting new members they are going to complain about much of the same. 

Let members handle their own shit and stop regulating it by locking threads. 
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#2
Mikal
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@whiteflame
Engage with me. Why is this done? I know you don't buy into this bullshit. Is it like a mod by mod thing where a certain mod can do what they want?
#3
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@Mikal
  1. callout thread
  2. cross-contamination toxicity happening over multiple threads and in retaliation even I began to have to participate.
  3. the 'atmosphere' of the website becoming more hostile and toxic is infectious and not only leads to others becoming more toxic or being driven away but repulses onlookers to not want to sign up.
You can believe what you want, I know one of the root things driving people away from this website. Nobody I have ever shown this website to ended up joining it except those who would join anyway as they were into DDO despite its toxic environment.

I have yet to meet a single person outside of this website who sees this website and feels it's overmoderated, even though my ban was wrong the slew of toxicity and spitefulness as the norm here is a major deterrent. About the only attractive part of the website is the formal debating arena as most of us there, other than in a rap battle or something, have generally got decent conduct these days.
#4
Lunatic
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@Barney

Why was RM's thread not deemed a call out thread? I know why, because RM keeps tattling to you that's why, and I am not doing the same to him. 

Neither should be locked, but when your crybaby RM comes a whining, daddy Ragnar has to come in an straighten things out so he doesn't feel harassed, despite the fact that RM is consistently harrassing.

This is how powerful RM's manipulation is, and this is a demonstrable  way to prove my point in the thread you locked. RM's manipulation actually causes harm when he pretends he is the victim. 

So pathetic. I am dis-appointed in you ragnar. 
#5
Lunatic
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 have yet to meet a single person outside of this website who sees this website and feels it's overmoderated, even though my ban was wrong the slew of toxicity and spitefulness as the norm here is a major deterrent. About the only attractive part of the website is the formal debating arena as most of us there, other than in a rap battle or something, have generally got decent conduct these days.
RCB there is barely anyone on the website you dungus. Maybe sh1t like this is precisely why. 
#6
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@RationalMadman
You are allowed to call out moderation
#7
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@Vader
I was referring to Lunatic's thread about me?
#8
Vader
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@RationalMadman
I saw now
#9
Vader
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The thread in question is going under the review
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#10
Mikal
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@Vader
Can you guys explain why it's locked , if it remains locked. I want an actual explanation as to what makes that harassment or a call out thread anymore than 2 members arguing with each other. 
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#11
Mikal
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@Vader
In your opinion was RM equally engaging in the exchanges and if so why not allow it to happen. 
#12
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@Mikal
Call out threads themselves are not allowed by the CoC. If you would like to protest that and have a call to action, that is fine. In fact, I would be in support. I am speaking as someone observing the action and my take on it and enforcing said rule

RM's thread was about Airmax's presidency. It's perfectly fair to call out a candidate in their campaign

Luna's thread came after the withdrawal by RM, technically making it a call out thread, thus it is against the rules.
#13
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@Mikal
attacking RM's character*
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#14
Mikal
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@airmax1227
Would you be opposed to kicking the thread if you were president and work with white flame to allow issues like this to play out until it became objective harassment
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#15
Mikal
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@Vader
Is it any less of a call out than RM attacking airmax and Luna in response? Does the type of call out make it more justifiable? 

I am going to talk to white flame about it as my opinion is the only one would enforce this is Ragnar because he is a rules lawyer. But it's easier to let airmax advocate for it as president but yes threads like that , that are not blatant harassment should be allowed. 

This is where moderation needs to have some sort of discretion about when the thread goes to far. That is like 10x less than a FB comment section for ffs 
#16
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@Mikal
If you want to lead a call to action for the next MEEP where we get rid of the call out rule. Feel free to do so. I was able to do as such with RO's and making a more effective system. 
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#17
Mikal
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@Vader
Easier to let max advocate for it as he would get it done more. I am sincerely curious about white flames thoughts as head moderator because there is no way he is that much of a snowflake.

At some point it's better to let things play out. Even if people are flaming each other in disagreement. That shit generates posts which is what the site needs. The more posts there are, the more it feeds into Google's search algorithm and at some point when you have more activity you are going to have people posting stuff that is relevant and not just flamey shit. Like people debating the presidency during an election and then google feeds people through here. It's why ddo was successful because it didn't filter stuff and it allowed for organic traffic. Moderation stops stuff that keeps people around and this place turns into a graveyard. 
#18
Vader
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@Mikal
My issue with that statement is that Airmax is running for a position that can directly influence moderation, which is a fair reason to call out someone because they will have a position of power. Hence why Luna's why you shouldn't vote RM thread was not taken down, hence why Airmax's thread against him was not taken down. Because they are running for a position that would grant them power

Luna made a post about RM after his withdrawal, and thus is not fair game for the call out thread, since he is not running for a position in power, thus making him a regular user, a violation of the CoC

As I said, if you would like the reform that rule, feel free to lead the charge
#19
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@Mikal
I'd agree and fair on asking for whiteflame, I am just stating my opinion on it. I agree with you, but I am an enforcer of the rules
#20
Lunatic
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@Barney
Im not so worried as much about the thread itself being locked, more about the consequences of you doing so. I am always fair in assuming you have the best intentions when you moderate, however I am no so sure you are always 100% aware of the full context of things when you moderate. For example the entire point of that thread was that I wasn't going to allow RM to continue getting to play the victim card while he gets to call others out (max and myself). You locking that thread vindicates him, and furthers the idea that he can get away with murder by tattling. Like I said, I am sure your intentions were pure, but all RM will take from that is that he can tattle tell on people and when action occurs because of said tattling, he can feel vindicated that he is right. You basically vindicated him in his trying to sell everyone that I am the toxic individual in this exchange, whether it was intended or not.
#21
Lunatic
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@Barney
@Vader
The line between someone running for president and someone not running for president in determining how threads get blocked is too blurry and vague. Remember the more arbitrary rules you create, the harder you make your job. Take this as friendly advice as it is intended. 
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#22
Mikal
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@Vader
What Connor said. 

An attack is an attack, regardless of how it's presented yes. 

"Don't vote for RM. He's a whiny cry baby who is not stable. He does not deserve a vote since he can't properly pick up ques and how to moderate"

"Don't vote for max, he's a power hungry ego maniac who is only running to fulfill his lust for power and satiate his ego"

Those 2 are both technically call outs. Instead of banning everything like that, why not allow it (regardless of context) and let members defend themselves or ignore it. Do this until it becomes blatant harassment or just pure ad hominems. There is always going to be some level of a arbitrary standard with this and understanding when to stop it is key. That is what is lacking. 

Also Luna hit the nail on the head with this, because what it also does is reinforce to RM that he's allowed to make passive aggressive statements and attack people and then when people turn the heat back on him, he's always going to be the victim. He wants to be able to attack people without having it thrown back at him and this type of moderation reinforces that. Let people go at it until moderation needs to step in. That last thread was not near a point that warranted a lock 

If Luna was off calling him a snively cunt or attacking him and berating him, then obviously lock it. 
#23
Lunatic
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^^^^
#24
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@Mikal
He called me a gaslighting abusive bully, I'd rather be called a snivelling cunt personally.

That said, I agree with something here, I am down for the mods making crystal clear where the line lies and applying it equally always. If the line lies more lenient than the past, I'll adapt and if it doesn't I'll also adapt.

I am still completely requesting them to put an RO between Lunatic and I as I am not interested in being his latest victim, he is free to pick on others. If it helps Lunatic for me to admit something, I am happy I am out of this election drama, he is not wrong... Except I am not out of it and he has been harassing me throughout both before and after my dropping out. Thanks and bye.
#25
Polytheist-Witch
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The site shouldn't have to deal with personal threads that's what private messaging is for.
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#26
Mikal
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RM from my perception as an outside opinion. If someone is attacking you and you feel attacked. Instead of attacking back and throwing shots back. Just say 

I have no interest to engage in this , pls stop. And don't touch it again. Don't post about him , don't mention him in any context and then if he continues to berate you. It logically makes sense for them to throw a RO or lock shit he says that is attacking you 

When you are engaging him and throwing mud back, you are engaging in the same behavior and that makes you a willing participant. 

No matter how you read that. It looks like you want to throw mud with him , but you don't want him to be able to attack you. If you are engaging in a argument with someone and throw adhoms yourself , expect to get them back. 


#27
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@Polytheist-Witch
The site shouldn't have to deal with personal threads that's what private messaging is for.
1. I can't private message him anywhere, I got blocked on discord and DART lol.

2. The thread isn't just me vs RM, it's explaining to everyone else why responding to his behavior is something we all should do, because he does it too. He attacks airmax and myself, but only cries to the mods when someone retaliates. Why is RM or anyone an exception to a rule? RM wants it public, so its public. 
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#28
Mikal
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@Polytheist-Witch
That's why this site is dead. This site is not strictly a debate website. It's a social platform as well. Which is another big difference between this and DDO. 

half of ddo was debate, the other has was social events and threads. It's why the website maintained like 200-300 active users and why this website has like 10. There is no glue to keep people around 
#29
Lunatic
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@Mikal
No matter how you read that. It looks like you want to throw mud with him , but you don't want him to be able to attack you. If you are engaging in a argument with someone and throw adhoms yourself , expect to get them back. 

10000000% This is exactly what I've been trying to say. 

Thankyou. 
#30
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@Mikal
I know what the site is I don't need you to explain it to me. Everybody talks about why the sites dead but nobody wants to talk about how to bring people in or how to advertise or how to do anything else to get people in. And if you're going to say RM is the only problem then you need to go to some other parts of the forums and read. We're having these stupid elections for an office that has no power instead of I don't know doing some sort of fundraiser to advertise somewhere to get people to come to the site. Or host some kind of debate event with politics being the way they are how is it we can't get people here to engage in political conversation.