Culture of Politics

Author: badger

Posts

Total: 53
Topic's author
#1
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
So my idea is that a culture of politics plus some few real and contentious issues fosters in people a practised affront and which is then a doorway to all sorts of silly shit.

The issues then would be guns, healthcare, and black people generally. There's reasonable arguments and viewpoints around all that stuff, maybe. 

But then you get this practised affront in people, and that's basically a golden ticket to believe whatever the fuck you want. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory shit. World of pure imagination. 

And then you got dudes chopping off their dicks. People identifying as dolphins. Whatever other silly shit. I hold that America is the silliest nation in the entire world, and entirely down to culture of politics.

It's a Pandora's box kind of idea, I guess. What you guys think?
#2
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,638
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@badger

Well stated.
#3
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@badger
I hold that America is the silliest nation in the entire world
No need to worry about that, chap. It'll sort itself out

#4
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
"Dudes chopping off their dicks"

Is so unqualified and exaggerated that I have a hard time taking you seriously XD

Also -do you think that trans people don't exist outside of America???? 
#5
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@badger
So my idea is that a culture of politics plus some few real and contentious issues fosters in people a practised affront and which is then a doorway to all sorts of silly shit.
I definitely agree. You can see this clearly based on the intensity of the discussion. People have called this the “culture war.” If we’re discussing a non culture war coded issue, like some boring tax policy, a rational discussion can occur. But if we’re discussing something extremely culture war coded like Black Lives Matter or immigration or something people bow up to defend their “side.” 

I’ve actually been trying to figure out now for a while what causes people to pick a specific “side” to begin with and I’ve pretty much got nothing, other than some inherent personality differences 
#6
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@badger
And then you got dudes chopping off their dicks


With how liberal European nations are, I just assumed it was a worse problem outside of the United States. 
#7
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@thett3
I’ve actually been trying to figure out now for a while what causes people to pick a specific “side” to begin with and I’ve pretty much got nothing, other than some inherent personality differences 
Uncle Ted in his manifesto explained this quite well. When liberals protest it is out of a sense of emptiness they need to fulfill. Ted explains it better, but their activism is not because they even believe in their own cause, but as an attempt to feel important and worthy. I don't know his opinion On right wing activists.
#8
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
-->
@badger
And then you got dudes chopping off their dicks. People identifying as dolphins. Whatever other silly shit. I hold that America is the silliest nation in the entire world, and entirely down to culture of politics.
The magical castration stuff is especially bonkers, and is a perfect example of footbinding-esque mass medical malpractice that will be looked back on with complete bewilderment centuries in the future. Aside from that festering boil called England and, strangely enough, Iran, I think most people in the rest of the world are completely bemused/horrified by it.
#9
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
The magical castration stuff is especially bonkers, and is a perfect example of footbinding-esque mass medical malpractice that will be looked back on with complete bewilderment centuries in the future. Aside from that festering boil called England and, strangely enough, Iran, I think most people in the rest of the world are completely bemused/horrified by it.
I don't know exactly what the future holds, but I do know that it includes universal condemnation of cutting off a mentally ill 14 year old girls breasts in the pursuit of something that isn't possible
Topic's author
#10
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@Wylted
With how liberal European nations are, I just assumed it was a worse problem outside of the United States. 

I'm suggesting that being a liberal country is less a factor than being a divided country. I think liberal countries will largely maintain a homogeneity despite politics if there's no real flexing of a political muscle in it. 
#11
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@badger
You actually got me thinking about why americans want to cut their dick off. I figured out the reason. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7188-why-the-gaying-of-society-is-happening

It's a red pill I was not expecting
#12
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
1st world problems.
#13
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@badger
Agreed, and the only way to stop it is by voting Donald John Trump in 2024.
#14
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@Wylted
Uncle Ted in his manifesto explained this quite well. When liberals protest it is out of a sense of emptiness they need to fulfill. Ted explains it better, but their activism is not because they even believe in their own cause, but as an attempt to feel important and worthy. I don't know his opinion On right wing activists.
“My opponents are weak and insecure people who resent the strong and the beautiful based on their own inferiority complex” is a nice story. Maybe a little too nice. While I think his analysis is 1000% on the money when it comes to the type of people who are in antifa or something like that it misses the mark when it comes to normal libs, who are a majority 
#15
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@thett3
He actually does differentiate between liberals and leftists.  Your average liberal can be explained by the fact they are one of the following

1. Plantation liberal- 
2. Midwit who has an establishment bias and is incapable of thinking beyond how he is told to.
3. Limousine liberal with a elitist mentality and ivory tower thinking. 

Leftists are essentially of two varieties

1. Dumb asses like antifa which uncle Ted spent most of his time describing 
2. Egghead academics who are with no practical real world experiences. 
#16
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
Most of the liberals you see on this site fall in group 2. A couple are between group 2 and 3. 
Topic's author
#17
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@thett3
I’ve actually been trying to figure out now for a while what causes people to pick a specific “side” to begin with and I’ve pretty much got nothing, other than some inherent personality differences 
I remember you told me a story once upon a time about your old neighbourhood being rolled over by an immigrant wave. I genuinely felt for you then and I think any politics that doesn't never knew a home itself. I think the right makes more sense than the left really. Some of it touches on racist sentiment, but why shouldn't it. It's a hyper-individualistic world. One side would make their politics around coddling some group of people. The other side knows nothing of this group, resents being made out the bad guy, sees gangster rap and gang violence. Politics of resentment, it makes sense. I'm not saying that's yours. Yours is definitely a fuller politics. But those are my ideas of the American right. 

There's one part of the left then that's a politics of the plenty. I think you and Double_R are both good dudes. His politics wouldn't deprive anyone of anything he has. Yours knows it's not so simple as that. I would say that's the entire difference between you. 

There's more of the left though. I really don't even know where to start haha. There's something suicidal there. I had ideas about it before, but I can't properly remember them.  Maybe I'll come back to you. 
Topic's author
#18
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
There's also the gays, but they're not so bad.
#19
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@thett3
“My opponents are weak and insecure people who resent the strong and the beautiful based on their own inferiority complex” is a nice story. Maybe a little too nice. While I think his analysis is 1000% on the money when it comes to the type of people who are in antifa or something like that it misses the mark when it comes to normal libs, who are a majority 
I think he makes that distinction by using the term “leftist” instead of liberals. He points out specifically activists for causes like feminism, gay rights, etc.

People who identify with a cause as a false means of identity and path to power
#20
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@badger
I remember you told me a story once upon a time about your old neighbourhood being rolled over by an immigrant wave. I genuinely felt for you then and I think any politics that doesn't never knew a home itself. I think the right makes more sense than the left really. Some of it touches on racist sentiment, but why shouldn't it. It's a hyper-individualistic world. One side would make their politics around coddling some group of people. The other side knows nothing of this group, resents being made out the bad guy, sees gangster rap and gang violence. Politics of resentment, it makes sense. I'm not saying that's yours. Yours is definitely a fuller politics. But those are my ideas of the American right. 

There's one part of the left then that's a politics of the plenty. I think you and Double_R are both good dudes. His politics wouldn't deprive anyone of anything he has. Yours knows it's not so simple as that. I would say that's the entire difference between you. 

There's more of the left though. I really don't even know where to start haha. There's something suicidal there. I had ideas about it before, but I can't properly remember them.  Maybe I'll come back to you. 
The roots of leftism come from enlightenment philosophy, empiricism, etc and for this reason they miss the fact that a lot of human behavior is pre-rational. 

I remember seeing some leftist e-celeb (I think it was Vaush but not sure) talking about how monogamy is bad, and how it's just motivated by sexual jealousy and insecurity and such. And to some extent that's true but like...human beings have been largely monogamous for an incredibly long time. Thousands of years, at least, and outside of a handful of exceptions this is a norm that evolved independently almost everywhere. Because monogamous norms address those feelings of sexual jealousy and allow people to focus on other things, like civilization instead of fighting over mates. At some point a lot of leftist arguments come off to me as just saying "oh, wouldn't it be grand if we weren't human beings, and were instead beings of pure reason?"

The immigration stuff is the same way. People aren't just cogs in a machine, real cultural differences (IE actual human diversity) only comes through stability and separation. I remember when I was a kid I loved learning about different cultures, how they would dress, the unique things they would eat, their beliefs and rituals and languages...I was totally dismayed to learn that almost everywhere that's dying. You can look at pictures or read stories from the 1800s and it's all these fascinating cultures with unique architecture and clothing, with interesting beliefs and ways of looking at the world. Now it's slowly evolving into a big monoculture. I had a friend who spent years studying German to the point he was pretty much fluent, and when he went to Germany as soon as he would open his mouth with his accented German the Germans would immediately just switch to English. I think that really says it all.

It's inevitable to some extent with technology and trade and all that which have brought more good than harm. But there's definitely something to be mourned there. I think people should take more pride in their ancestry and culture. This should unironically be happening everywhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanfu_Movement
Topic's author
#21
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@thett3
The immigration stuff is the same way. People aren't just cogs in a machine, real cultural differences (IE actual human diversity) only comes through stability and separation.
I don't disagree with you. But I guess culture is a tougher sell when you're hungry. The Mexicans aren't coming over the wall just for fun. 

#22
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@badger
That’s for sure, and part of the “humans as cogs in a great machine” mindset is moving people to wherever they’ll be most economically productive 
Topic's author
#23
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@thett3
I do not see myself ever getting married tbh. I'm hoping to have kids by accident and that the girl is bearable lol.

I saw Athias post something about promiscuity fucking with the ability to pair bond the other day, and I am definitely too far gone. 
#24
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@badger
You must reproduce. You have POWERFUL genes (proof: able to post online and not be a loser)
Topic's author
#25
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@thett3
thett, you're the coolest dude I know. 
#26
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@ILikePie5
Agreed, and the only way to stop it is by voting Donald John Trump in 2024.
Do you work for the Trump campaign?
#27
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@thett3
I’ve actually been trying to figure out now for a while what causes people to pick a specific “side” to begin with and I’ve pretty much got nothing, other than some inherent personality differences 
I really don’t think it’s a complex issue. We all begin with our core values, and everything follows from that. It kind of reminds me of an excel spreadsheet; change one number and the entire page recalculates, often to a point where you don’t even recognize any of it.

What fascinates me is when someone refuses to acknowledge why they believe what they do to the point where they won’t even admit it to themselves. Either that or when someone takes a position that they themselves won’t even defend so they twist themselves in pretzels to defend the indefensible.

If you ask me about the summer protests I have no problem saying the looters and rioters should all be in jail, and that these protests went way too far. Why? Because I actually care about reality, and that’s reality.

But ask a few of our Trump defending friends here about January 6th and “but the summer riots!” are all you will get from them. When one finally admits it they say it wasnt too bad. “what hostile force?”

I just can’t figure out whether they’re lying to me or to themselves. But when it comes to picking sides, I guess that’s more about pride than anything else. The problem occurs when we allow our political affiliation to become intertwined with our sense of self identity. Because then anything that confronts our position feels like an attack in oneself personally. At that point principals and logic go out the window.

For me, my sense of self identity comes from being grounded in logic and reason and holding to my principals. That doesn’t mean I’ll always get it right, but it means if I care about anything I espouse I must be willing to admit when I’m wrong and change my mind.
#28
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@badger
I saw Athias post something about promiscuity fucking with the ability to pair bond the other day, and I am definitely too far gone. 
In the words of the illustrious Lucky Luciano (the rapper not the gangster,) "Hoes Get No Love."
#29
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Double_R
Do you work for the Trump campaign?
Why do you ask Mr. I’m Not Revealing Any Information About Myself
#30
rbelivb
rbelivb's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 210
1
2
5
rbelivb's avatar
rbelivb
1
2
5
-->
@badger
And then you got dudes chopping off their dicks. People identifying as dolphins.
But these are not imaginary problems, and the problem will not go away simply by solving people's psychological issues. Conservatives are almost entirely in denial about this, and as you said it is a "Pandora's Box" - but conservatives are under the illusion that we can put the lid back on simply by wishing it away. The problems of modernity are reframed as the hysterical agenda of some small group of students. In fact, even if those "woke" students disappeared, the norms of gender or race would not automatically reassert themselves.

The various ethnic centers of the world have been maintained by the stability of the nation-state. And as the nation-state model is breaking up, the concurrent religious / social structures which are the psychic dimension of these ethnic groups, are also being dissolved. It is the actual, not only psychological, "balance" of the world system which is being disrupted, precisely by the extent to which communication occurs across - rather than within - ethnic groups. And so the real cause of these dynamics is not ideological, but in the development of the global means of communication, network technologies and so on. The real "conservatives" or revolutionaries today are the big tech companies, who are trying to regulate and contain, to privatize these developing networked paths of communication.