Is it moral to give money to beggers

Author: Lemming 2 years ago

Posts

Total: 84

Topic's author

Lemming

Debates: 9

Posts: 3,439

Lemming

01.10.2022 06:13PM

Myself I would say no,

Though that there are exceptions.

To my mind the 'moral action, would be to attempt to get them out of that lifestyle,

But the average person is not willing to risk themselves, or their funds, in what they expect often a hopeless endeavor.

For which they are not qualified.

They expect many individuals to prefer said lifestyle, possess an addiction, or mental handicap that 'keeps them to it.

If one is not going to help them, you say, perhaps the 'next most moral act 'would be to give them the money,

But I'd argue giving them directions to a public service that will 'actually help them, or feed them, to be better.

Better than a prolongation of their current lifestyle.

Better to give the money to a charity, or 'work in such a charity oneself.

FLRW

Debates: 0

Posts: 6,801

FLRW

01.10.2022 06:48PM

-->

@Lemming

I agree.

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,190

zedvictor4

01.11.2022 07:12AM

-->

@Lemming

Is money moral?

Or more precisely,

Are the inherent social manifestations of money moral?

Money has long since been a representation of debt,

And is now a representation of hierarchical power.

What is morality anyway?

Other than a justification for something that we feel the need to justify,

Or the condemnation of something that we feel the need to condemn.

Why do we make up all this stuff?

Is it an evolutionary necessity?

Or do we do it just because we can?

Topic's author

Lemming

Debates: 9

Posts: 3,439

Lemming

01.11.2022 05:48PM

-->

@zedvictor4

@FLRW

@zedvictor4

Without money,

An individual often suffers,

Being not so often, as unconventional in outlook as Diogenes.

Money by its purchases can provide shelter, food, hygiene, comfort, safety.

I don't feel like being nihilistic this moment, so I'll speak practically,

Morality is what of we believe to be right and wrong.

An urgent feeling, instinct, habit born of repetition and belief.

We make up morality, because we're humans, wired that way, I'd suppose.

Many organisms 'don't possess much thought-out morality, I'd hazard,

But for humans, I imagine morality has seen evolution, in our biology.

I think we do morality because we 'must.

We 'think too much 'not to, I 'think.

@FLRW

I suppose one could make an argument that giving money is better than nothing, for particular individuals,

An action inspired by sympathy, offering comfort said individual chooses of their own free will to purchase with said money.

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,190

zedvictor4

01.12.2022 07:05AM

-->

@Lemming

Own free will.

Now that's a red rag to a bull.

Especially in the philosophy forum....LOL

Shelter, food, comfort, hygiene and safety.

All that is available anyway, so why does a genuine beggar* need to exchange money for these supposed essentials.

Isn't this just a manifestation of base human instinct.....Inherent selfishness, always one eye on personal survival and never real concern for those less fortunate.

Some might suggest that for this reason humanity is inherently immoral.

Not intending to denigrate those who have developed a strong sense of compassion.

Nonetheless, compassion also comes at a price.

Compassion becomes a social sub-system, inextricably tied to money, like everything else.

Maybe hardwired selfishness and the invention of a divisive tool (money), were inevitable.

If shelter, food, comfort, hygiene, safety and compassion were our only consideration,

Why would we necessarily motivate material evolution....Technological progress for example.

Maybe human purpose is greater than humanity.

Perhaps therefore, it is essentially moral to be socially immoral.

No free will methinks.

*Genuine Beggar.....You decide.

FLRW

Debates: 0

Posts: 6,801

FLRW

01.12.2022 02:07PM

Mumbai beggar was a millionaire, police find after his death

This is not the first such story where a beggar has turned out to be rich. In 2015, India came to know about its richest beggar — Bharat Jain — who would earn Rs 70,000 to 80,000 per month by begging.

Topic's author

Lemming

Debates: 9

Posts: 3,439

Lemming

01.12.2022 07:28PM

-->

@zedvictor4

@FLRW

@zedvictor4

I find it difficult to speak practically 'without using the words free will.

Though there is a point, a considerable number of individuals homeless possess mental illness, usually untreated (Assumption on my part)

Or they possess addictions, or considerable peer pressure in their peer groups if had.

I am 'doubtful that Shelter, food, comfort, hygiene and safety.

Are 'so available to beggers in society,

But perhaps I underestimate them, and society.

Though if you mean 'society 'has these items, Shelter, food, comfort, hygiene and safety.

I suppose,

But the question of whether we ought structure society with a 'far 'stronger safety net, is another topic.

Though likely one I'd agree strongly with,

'IF one was planning a new country or city.

Money is just a placeholder, a symbol, a representation.

Even if everyone were but brains hooked up to computers online,

Our interests, emotions, activities, efforts, would still be given value.

Even on an island with two individuals, a single 'word, would have value, a 'slight enunciation of kindness or hate.

We 'are.

Purpose and essential, 'depend on what one is speaking of.

@FLRW

True,

Difficult to know the truth of other people, their circumstances, choices and resources available to them, known or unknown.

My assumption though, is that many people begging are not wealthy.

RationalMadman

Debates: 574

Posts: 19,931

RationalMadman

01.12.2022 08:17PM

-->

@Lemming

I once bought 2 of a beggar's CDs and risked putting a virus on my computer.

He produced rap and like drum and bass stuff so I was curious.

His raps were not as good as advertised. At least there was no virus and as far as beggars go this was a cool dude technically he's a seller but it was all unofficial so yeah... Something about the way he talked me into it made me want to buy them. I don't regret the very few dollars-worth I spent though, in terms of morality.

The DnB was kind of weird lol.

I don't get where you're coming from though, you really think it's evil? Like you never would even consider giving a beggar any money?

Topic's author

Lemming

Debates: 9

Posts: 3,439

Lemming

01.12.2022 08:33PM

@RationalMadman

Interesting when one can find small original artists.

I don't think I'd call giving a beggar money 'immoral, unless I went to 'extreme's of taking the 'best moral action in every case, which sounds too difficult for a human, to me.

I've given money to a begger at 'least once in my life, I'd 'suspect it's possible I've given money other times in life, whether to beggars or more normal people who just needed a bit for whatever reason, even if just to buy a soda at work or something.

But only one time in my life stands out, when I was a teenager, where I'd been walking home from the bank, after making a withdrawal, and got blindsided by some fellow, though more I just wasn't paying attention, I forget the particulars, except that I 'think I gave him a $20,

Made the guy rather emotional, in how touched he was, whether people don't usually give that much, or just that type of person, or it was an act.

But it still affected me,

I was still a Christian then, and it left me with an indescribable (Now) emotion, of. . Connectivity to other people, existence, a desire to do more, as well as guilt.

Which may sound a pretentious feeling,

But such is the type of Chri-

Never mind. Point is I've done it once.

The topic 'mostly comes to my mind, due to this topic.

Something you may not know about airmax (debateart.com)

Which may be meant a bit as a joke, bit serious,

But I'm not faulting anyone for their actions, just made me pensive.

For an 'individual, helped out to some cash,

It's a nice act I suppose.

But between giving a man a fish, and giving him a fishing pole,

The fishing pole 'seems better, to me.

But then, some people prefer the fish.

(Addon)

'Now in life, I 'would generally avoid giving money to other people, yes.

Though situation, or emotion 'might suddenly break my preference.

Maybe I think some people would use it better than others,

Maybe I'm embarrassed by being asked.

I'd 'rather just 'keep 'my money though.

I'd rather 'I just have a good time.

(I 'think)

#10

RationalMadman

Debates: 574

Posts: 19,931

RationalMadman

01.12.2022 09:34PM

-->

@Lemming

Yeah beggars who are hooked on drugs and shit, it's really hard to actually help them with money but I will give you a piece of advice that I did wrong most of my life (almost all of it until I really thought about it from the beggar's point of view).

If you are strolling in a place and a beggar is there and you aren't truly in a rush, even if you're gonna be stingy, just stop for a second and look at them in the eyes and say 'hello'. One of the most traumatic things for them is how unseen they feel. Of course, if you do start this you probably will end up spending a little but it's not about that. I'm not saying I did that much at all, I had been raised to either ignore them or spend (one or the other) as it seemed rude to just acknowledge them without spending but I relatively recently watched a couple documentaries on ex-homeless and what they described was that the times people saw them and talked to them actually felt better than the times people ran up to them dropped some change and ran away instantly.

Topic's author

#11

Lemming

Debates: 9

Posts: 3,439

Lemming

01.12.2022 09:45PM

@RationalMadman

I think your advice is good,

Though it's for 'my shame, not theirs, that I avert my eyes.

And every time I am reminded that I am not following morality, as I was taught in Christianity.

I don't hope to reclaim that morality,

But that my heart hardens and forms in egoism, that I've come to prefer.

Perhaps in time I'll come to not even 'mind that shame of remembrance.

(Sometimes I think I'd prefer)

Still, if one is speaking of considering others, then I think your post is correct.

8 days later

#12

Double_R

Debates: 3

Posts: 5,361

Double_R

01.21.2022 12:28PM

-->

@Lemming

I would certainly not say it’s immoral to give them money, I also wouldn’t say it’s immoral not to. I ride the NYC subway to work everyday so I come across probably two to three a day (literally had one asking me for change about 5 minutes ago). My attitude is no, I pay my taxes, and enough of my tax dollars has gone to help people without.

#13