Reflection on January 6th

I know of no democrat who set their sights on impeaching Trump after the election.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)

Impeachment managers

• Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), Lead Impeachment Manager
  
• Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas)
  
• Rep. David Cicilline (D-R.I.)
  
• Rep. Madeleine Dean (D-Pa.)
  
• Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.)
  
• Rep. Joe Neguse (D-Colo.)
  
• Del. Stacey Plaskett (D-V.I.)
  
• Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.)
  
• Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.)
  

This is from Jose Padilla's Grand Jury indictment.

Padilla also publicly stated his objective at the Capitol on January 6 in no uncertain terms: to "dissolve the legislature, and replace it with Patriots who were there. Then simply re-adopt the Constitution with amendments added to secure future Federal elections." See SOF at 9. He told a police officer that he sought to destroy the "machine" that governed within the U.S. Capitol. See Hr'g Ex. 2. His comments take issue not simply with the 2020 presidential election, but regard a broader years-long struggle against a government he perceives to be illegitimate. See id. ("This war has been upon us for years and we've just been wringing hands about it."); see also Hr'g Ex. 10. And he demonstrated a belief that force is justified to counteract government measures that he personally considers unlawful. His words, as well as the nature of his actions, thus create "ample reason to believe that [the] fight is not finished for [Padilla]," even though the transition of power to the current administration has come and gone. See Sabol, 2021 WL 1405945, at *18. Indeed, Padilla's own statements suggest that his fight has just begun.

But since the post is reflecting on Jan 6th, then I suppose I’ll say this: it was somewhat bad. It wasn’t an insurrection or an attempted coup.

I don’t know anything about this guy. Did he in some way organize the protest on Jan 6th or coordinate anything with the rest of the people?

Jan 6, the day we celebrate not formally charging hundreds of political trespassers for insurrection while also calling them insurrectionists.

Or watergate.

And you can claim that is a “whataboutism”, but it’s a valid point. Do I support breaking into the Capitol? Absolutely not. But does it even remotely compare to the riots of the summer in terms of damage or death toll? Not even close.

But since the post is reflecting on Jan 6th, then I suppose I’ll say this: it was somewhat bad. It wasn’t an insurrection or an attempted coup. It’ll be blown way out of proportion like Charlottesville and become this kind of weird lefty anti-holiday. The worst part about it is that now libtards will use this one instance of right wing rioting in decades to say “but muh right wing extremists riot tooooo”

I ask liberals at my university how many people are charged with insurrection and then show them the facts.

I know of no democrat who set their sights on impeaching Trump after the election.

Second Impeachment of Donald Trump (January 13, 2021 -- 10 weeks AFTER the (s)election.)

Nancy Pelosi on January 12, 2021 (10 weeks AFTER the (s)election) appointed nine impeachment managers who were responsible for presenting the impeachment case to the Senate:

So run me a little more through this then.

These secret planners waited until after already having been declared victorious in the election to pull a stunt that would demonise Trump?

Then, they (these evil masterminds) failed to impeach him anyway?

Were the "democrats" not trying to impeach Trump after he lost the (s)election, which at the time was subject to scrutiny?

Let me remind you what this conversation began with some context.

You referred to January 6th as having been “staged”, thereby implying that some anti Trump mastermind was behind it all.

So another user commented on that and you replied:

The dialog here pertaining to the staging of the event clearly shows that the alleged plotting to impeach Trump took place before January 6th.

Therefore when I tell you I am not aware of any democrats plotting to impeach Trump after the election I’m clearly talking about the period before January 6th

So showing me an impeachment that took place after January 6th as a direct response to January 6th is completely irrelevant

I know of no democrat who set their sights on impeaching Trump after the election.

So if someone isn’t charged with a crime they didn’t commit one? Wow, great argument.

Astute deduction. One could reasonably presume that the staged event was planned before it actually occurred.

No you weren't. You just needed time to come up with some reason to explain away your folly.

But my response was directly aimed at your statement:

I know of no democrat who set their sights on impeaching Trump after the election.

Yeah, no shit. And since that was the topic not only of the specific statement I replied to but is also the point of this thread, it is beyond obvious to anyone paying attention that I was talking about the post election period before January 6th.

No, you just need to learn how to understand context and the role it plays in conversation.

No, it was aimed at the statement you imagined. One that had nothing to do with anything said before it, which is an absurd way to have a discussion.

“If person X was not charged with a crime, then person X did not commit said crime”

Is this a logical fallacy? Yes or No?

So let me ask you this: why didn’t the Justice Department charge anyone with insurrection 

Insufficient evidence.

I mean that’s how the justice system works. Innocent until proven guilty.

So let me ask you this: why didn’t the Justice Department charge anyone with insurrection

And there is the problem; you’re trying to pass off a legal argument as a colloquialism.

When we talk about an insurrection at the Capitol, we’re talking about what it actually was according to the definition of the word “insurrection” and basic logic. From there we put those together to form a reasonable belief of what occurred.

Makes sense though. Keep diverting attention from all of Biden’s failures: Afghanistan, Border, Supply Chain, COVID, Filibuster, Build Back Better

If there is, as you and Democrats proclaim, a conspiracy to commit insurrection, then there should be at least one charge along those lines. 

Saying people committed insurrection when most just trespassed and vandalized is intentionally misleading.

Makes sense though. Keep diverting attention from all of Biden’s failures: Afghanistan, Border, Supply Chain, COVID, Filibuster, Build Back Better

They’re is nothing valid about bringing up the summer riots *in response* to the question of what your views are regarding January 6th. Nothing.

There is also nothing valid about comparing them. The summer riots were a period of national civil unrest over a longstanding contentious issue, the final straw of which being sparked by a video taken by bystanders and spread over social media.

January 6th was the culmination of a political plot to steal an election.

In other words, the summer riots was an uprising from the bottom up, Jan 6th was pushed from the top down starting with the president of the United States.

Moreover, when we talk about January 6th we’re not talking about property damage, we’re talking about the security of the US Capitol and of our democracy. So this is not even the same conversation.

These two things do not compare in any way.

Ok, it was “somewhat bad”. Thanks for that.

On January 6th the US Capitol was taken over by a hostile force, forcing congress to have to evacuate in the middle of certifying the next president, the people who carried this out overwhelmingly stated that they were there on behalf of the sitting president of the United States who didn’t do or say anything about it till three hours into it, and to this day he has never given any serious condemnation of it.

What part of this is factually wrong?

However, any attempt at framing it as a coup or insurrection just seems disingenuous to me.

The Democrats and their propaganda arm in the media are willfully misleading the American populace.