unmentioned scientific discoveries in islam

Author: Lunar108
Islam
Religion

Posts

Total: 21
Topic's author
#1
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
Let us begin with one of my favorite  :
1."The quran provides that the length of a normal gestation (pregnancy) is six months (Luqman 31:14; al-Baqarah 2:233; al-Ahqaf 46:15). Luqman 31:14 and al-Baqarah 2:233 provide a nursing period of 24 months. Al-Ahqaf 46:15 provides a total of 30 months for both gestation and nursing combined. This leaves only six months for the period of gestation. We know that this is not true. Normal gestation lasts nine months.
==================================================================================================
2.the great whale carrying the earth on it's back , also the earth is flat
quran 68:1
and here I would like to reference islam wiki
while many islamic scholars deny this the 8 big books that explain the quran -the books of tafseer- mention it , which muslims return to to understand the quran like:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Tafsir At-Tabari
At-Tabari mentions several interpretations. One of them is this:
هو الحوت الذي عليه الأرَضُون

It is a whale (الحوت), which on it the Earths.

At-Tabari tafsir on 68:1 
In Islamic cosmology there are seven flat Earths, just like there are seven heavens:
Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the earth the like of them
They are placed on the whale like flapjacks on a plate, stacked one atop the other.
Tafsir Al-Qurtubi
Al-Qurtubi mentions several interpretations. One of them is that the Nun is the whale which is under the 7th (lowest) Earth:
نۤ> الحوت الذي تحت الأرض السابعة>

<Nun> - the whale (الحوت), which is under the Earth the seventh.

Tafsir Al-Qurtubi on 68:1 [9]
From his use of the word "tahat" or "under" it can be surmised that in Al-Qurtubi's cosmology the earth is seen as flat.
ِTafsir Al-Kabir (by Ar-Razi)
بالحوت الذي على ظهره الأرض وهو في بحر تحت الأرض السفلى

..with the whale (بالحوت) which over its back is the Earth and it is in the sea under the Earth (الأرض) the lowest.

Tafsir Al-Kabir on 68:1[10]
Al-Kabir here repeates the idea that there are multiple flat earths balanced on the back of the whale.
ِTafsir Fath Al-Qadir (by Shawkani)
This tafsir is from the 18th century and it mentions several interpretations. One of them is the idea that the world is carried on the back of a whale:
هو الحوت الذي يحمل الأرض
It is a whale which carries the Earth.

Fath Al-Qadir on 68:1[11]
Hadith Al-Kafi (shia)
Hadith Al-Kafi, one of the most prestigious Shi'ite hadith, also confirms that a whale carries the earth upon its back:
H 14813 – From him, from Salih, from one of his companions, from Abdul Samad Bin Basheer, who has reported the following: Abu Abdullah (asws) has said that: ‘The whale which is carrying the earth secretly said to itself that it is carrying the earth by its own strength. So Allah (azwj) the High Sent to it a fish smaller than a palm’s length, and larger than a finger. So it entered in its gills and shocked it. It remained like that for forty days. Then Allah (azwj) Raised it and was Merciful to it, and Took it out. So whenever Allah (azwj) Intends the earth to be in a quake, He (azwj) Sends that (small) fish to that (big) fish. So when it sees it, it becomes restless, so the earth gets engulfed by the earthquake’.
Al-Kafi, vol. 8, part 6, [12]
Tafsir Al-Tusi (shia)
The first comprehensive Shia tafsir[13] says this about the Nun:
وقال ابن عباس - فى رواية عنه - إن النون الحوت الذى عليه الارضون
And said Ibn Abbas (ابن عباس) - in his narration - that Nun (النون) is a whale (الحوت) which on it are the Earths (الارضون).
Al-Tibbyan by Al-Tusi on 68:1 [14]
There is thus attestation of Nun the whale in both the Sunni and Shi'ite tradition.
=======================================================================================================
the rising and setting place of the sun
quran 18:86
the sun sets in muddy water spring 
hadith :
a).Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991
--------------------------------_______________________________-----------------------------------------------___________________________________
b).The Prophet (ﷺ) asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All- Knowing." (36.38) sahih bukhari
Quran 18:90:
Until, when he came to the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. 
=============================================================================================================

and here's a few more scientific errors from the same website :


#2
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Why is it that atheist associate everything in a religious text that is myth, as fact. Just because it's in a book doesn't make it science. Myths aren't meant to be scientific they're meant to be fantastic because you're talking about supernatural beings. It's it's sad this is what you spend your time on. Instead of reading the Quran for a scientific information maybe you should try science book.
Topic's author
#3
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
that claim applies only until  they begin claiming that their religion contains scientific miracles 
ones you heard the scientific miracles that  are claimed to be mentioned in the quran you'll understand 
and I don't understand why is a polytheist defending islam ? care to explain ?
#4
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,209
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
What a hoot. 
This curan book sounds way crazy. 


#5
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,209
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Lunar108
Actually First off.
Merry Christmas  mate. 
#6
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Lunar108
Not being a Theist, does not prevent one from defending Theists,
Nor from criticizing arguments 'against Theism.

Same with Atheism, Polytheism, so on.
Topic's author
#7
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Lemming
monotheist and polytheist tend to hate each other 
#8
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Lunar108
Source?

I'm 'not trying to give hard time, but am curious whether it is something you've learned over time, in interactions online,
Or whether it is some soft rule that most everyone knows about. (Can't say 'I know of it)
Topic's author
#9
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Lemming
I've actually learned about it online while debating theists
#10
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Lunar108
I'm not sure online is the 'best method of identifying groups and their beliefs, behaviors.
Or how accurately 'widely defined groups 'can be identified.

(Edit)
Or 'debate, now that I think on it.
Perhaps debate tends toward the inflamed, people with chips on their shoulders,
Debates often battle of wills, not conversation accepting when one is wrong, or another holds a different opinion.

Though 'maybe internet is decent method of interacting with others,
Vocal minorities exist,
People 'looking for expression of anger.
Bellicose.
#11
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
unmentioned scientific discoveries in islam
coffee, praise Allah.

#12
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
unmentioned scientific discoveries in islam
dental hygiene, praise Allah.

#13
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
unmentioned scientific discoveries in islam
surgery, sutures, and hospitals.  praise Allah.
#14
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
unmentioned scientific discoveries in islam
musical scales, modern numbers, algebra, and the zero.  praise Allah.
Topic's author
#15
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@oromagi
I would like to see where are those mentioned in the quran and hadith ?
#16
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->@oromagi
I would like to see where are those mentioned in the quran and hadith ?
Let's recall that your topic is "unmentioned scientific discoveries in islam" and not "unmentioned scientific discoveries in the Quran and Hadith"

I can't think of any actual scientific discoveries related in any major religious text- the Bible or Upanishads, Book of Mormon, etc. and would not expect to find any in the Quran.

Islam is, of course, far more than just a couple of religious books just as Christianity is more than the Bible.


#17
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@oromagi
#18
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Lemming

-->@oromagi
What Have The Romans... - Monty Python's Life of Brian - YouTube
Love that bit

7 days later

#19
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108
Let us begin with one of my favorite  :
1."The quran provides that the length of a normal gestation (pregnancy) is six months (Luqman 31:14; al-Baqarah 2:233; al-Ahqaf 46:15). Luqman 31:14 and al-Baqarah 2:233 provide a nursing period of 24 months. Al-Ahqaf 46:15 provides a total of 30 months for both gestation and nursing combined. This leaves only six months for the period of gestation. We know that this is not true. Normal gestation lasts nine months.
- What is this?! Who even comes up with this cosmic dumb sh*t! Like the Arabs back then did not know normal gestation is 9 months?! The verses are referring a Hukm (ruling), not a medical advice! The point is, 30 months is the max recognized duration for pregnancy & nursing, & 24 months is the maximum allowable duration of nursing; for cases such as alimony, child-care, divorce, penalties...etc.


Tafsir At-Tabari
At-Tabari mentions several interpretations. One of them is this:
هو الحوت الذي عليه الأرَضُون
It is a whale (الحوت), which on it the Earths.
<Nun> - the whale (الحوت), which is under the Earth the seventh.

Tafsir Al-Qurtubi on 68:1 [9]
From his use of the word "tahat" or "under" it can be surmised that in Al-Qurtubi's cosmology the earth is seen as flat.
ِTafsir Al-Kabir (by Ar-Razi)
بالحوت الذي على ظهره الأرض وهو في بحر تحت الأرض السفلى
..with the whale (بالحوت) which over its back is the Earth and it is in the sea under the Earth (الأرض) the lowest.

Tafsir Al-Kabir on 68:1[10]
Al-Kabir here repeates the idea that there are multiple flat earths balanced on the back of the whale.
ِTafsir Fath Al-Qadir (by Shawkani)
This tafsir is from the 18th century and it mentions several interpretations. One of them is the idea that the world is carried on the back of a whale:
هو الحوت الذي يحمل الأرض
It is a whale which carries the Earth.
- You do realize that these scholars are quoting Jewish traditions here right...? Especially Tabari, he references more than 350 Biblical & Jewish tradition in his commentary. It's called higher criticism. That does not mean he promotes those beliefs or adheres to them himself!

- What you're implying here is a bunch of drivel. Muslims have always known about the roundness of the Earth, as mentioned in the Quran & the Hadith. Also, by the consensus of Muslim scholars, reported by Ibn Munadi from the 9th century, or Ibn Hazm from the 11th century, or Fakhr Razi from the 12th century & many others... In fact, Muslims have attempted quite accurate measurements of the Earth & its distance from the Moon as early as the 8th century. For instance, al-Marwazi, who lived a century before Tabari, estimated the Earth's diameter at 6.5k miles (7.9 miles actual), the Moon's diameter at 1.9k miles (2.1 miles actual), the distance Earth-Moon at 215k miles (225k miles actual), & even estimate the sun to be 170 times larger than the Earth...


There is thus attestation of Nun the whale in both the Sunni and Shi'ite tradition.
- You mean to say "in both the Jewish & Shite tradition"... 


hadith :
a).Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991
b).The Prophet (ﷺ) asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All- Knowing." (36.38) sahih bukhari
- Cognitive dissonance much friend? You just refuted yourself. You mention two different accounts of the same exact incident, one reported by al-Bukhari (& also the other 6 canonical collections), & the other a weak narration in Sunan Abu Dawud. They can't both be true, one must therefore necessarily be false. Evidently the first account is false, for it is simply an aberration from all the other accounts. The narrator must have mistaken "the sun appeared to him to be setting in a warm spring" with "the sun travels its fixed course"... The first account is false.

- That said, the Prophet (pbuh) telling the companion that the sun goes to prostrate to Allah is very obviously metaphorical! That's also a verse in the Quran "And to Allah prostrates whoever is within the heavens and the earth" (13:15). The Heavens & the Earth do not literally prostrate to Allah... it's a metaphor for the absolute dominion of God. Also in the Quran, the sun travels in its orbit: "And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming." (21:33).


quran 18:86
the sun sets in muddy water spring 
- You're going too far with your mistranslations. Literally every thing you cite is grossly mistranslated & distorted. What are you trying to prove? That you're dishonest?! Where does it say the sun sets in muddy waters??  – The verse, speaking of Dhul-Qarnayn journey says: "So he travelled a course, Until, when he reached the setting of the sun [i.e., the west], *he* found it [as if] setting in a body of dark water". It is describing the scene witnessed by the king at that moment, a sunset at the end of his journey to the west, at a lake/sea which is dark or murky (often interpreted as the Caspian Sea for its large oil contaminations). 


Quran 18:90:
Until, when he came to the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. 
- Again with the terrible translations... 'Matla Shams' literally means Sunrise or East. You're trying too hard & not succeeding much. Is that all?!

- The great irony here, you don't stop talking about how Muslims "misinterpret" the words to fit a narrative, yet that's what you're doing in full force, on top of gross mistranslations & stretched distortions.

Topic's author
#20
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
Let us begin with one of my favorite  :
1."The quran provides that the length of a normal gestation (pregnancy) is six months (Luqman 31:14; al-Baqarah 2:233; al-Ahqaf 46:15). Luqman 31:14 and al-Baqarah 2:233 provide a nursing period of 24 months. Al-Ahqaf 46:15 provides a total of 30 months for both gestation and nursing combined. This leaves only six months for the period of gestation. We know that this is not true. Normal gestation lasts nine months.
- What is this?! Who even comes up with this cosmic dumb sh*t! Like the Arabs back then did not know normal gestation is 9 months?! The verses are referring a Hukm (ruling), not a medical advice! The point is, 30 months is the max recognized duration for pregnancy & nursing, & 24 months is the maximum allowable duration of nursing; for cases such as alimony, child-care, divorce, penalties...etc.
that still leaves only 6 months for gestation when taking the max nursing your god seems to have forgotten that .
and I'd love it if you point me to where the word MAX is mentioned in those verses

Tafsir At-Tabari
At-Tabari mentions several interpretations. One of them is this:
هو الحوت الذي عليه الأرَضُون
It is a whale (الحوت), which on it the Earths.
<Nun> - the whale (الحوت), which is under the Earth the seventh.

Tafsir Al-Qurtubi on 68:1 [9]
From his use of the word "tahat" or "under" it can be surmised that in Al-Qurtubi's cosmology the earth is seen as flat.
ِTafsir Al-Kabir (by Ar-Razi)
بالحوت الذي على ظهره الأرض وهو في بحر تحت الأرض السفلى
..with the whale (بالحوت) which over its back is the Earth and it is in the sea under the Earth (الأرض) the lowest.

Tafsir Al-Kabir on 68:1[10]
Al-Kabir here repeates the idea that there are multiple flat earths balanced on the back of the whale.
ِTafsir Fath Al-Qadir (by Shawkani)
This tafsir is from the 18th century and it mentions several interpretations. One of them is the idea that the world is carried on the back of a whale:
هو الحوت الذي يحمل الأرض
It is a whale which carries the Earth.
- You do realize that these scholars are quoting Jewish traditions here right...? Especially Tabari, he references more than 350 Biblical & Jewish tradition in his commentary. It's called higher criticism. That does not mean he promotes those beliefs or adheres to them himself!

- What you're implying here is a bunch of drivel. Muslims have always known about the roundness of the Earth, as mentioned in the Quran & the Hadith. Also, by the consensus of Muslim scholars, reported by Ibn Munadi from the 9th century, or Ibn Hazm from the 11th century, or Fakhr Razi from the 12th century & many others... In fact, Muslims have attempted quite accurate measurements of the Earth & its distance from the Moon as early as the 8th century. For instance, al-Marwazi, who lived a century before Tabari, estimated the Earth's diameter at 6.5k miles (7.9 miles actual), the Moon's diameter at 1.9k miles (2.1 miles actual), the distance Earth-Moon at 215k miles (225k miles actual), & even estimate the sun to be 170 times larger than the Earth...


There is thus attestation of Nun the whale in both the Sunni and Shi'ite tradition.
- You mean to say "in both the Jewish & Shite tradition"... 
would love it if you could leave your references otherwise your claims are empty 
 
hadith :
a).Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991
b).The Prophet (ﷺ) asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All- Knowing." (36.38) sahih bukhari
- Cognitive dissonance much friend? You just refuted yourself. You mention two different accounts of the same exact incident, one reported by al-Bukhari (& also the other 6 canonical collections), & the other a weak narration in Sunan Abu Dawud. They can't both be true, one must therefore necessarily be false. Evidently the first account is false, for it is simply an aberration from all the other accounts. The narrator must have mistaken "the sun appeared to him to be setting in a warm spring" with "the sun travels its fixed course"... The first account is false.

- That said, the Prophet (pbuh) telling the companion that the sun goes to prostrate to Allah is very obviously metaphorical! That's also a verse in the Quran "And to Allah prostrates whoever is within the heavens and the earth" (13:15). The Heavens & the Earth do not literally prostrate to Allah... it's a metaphor for the absolute dominion of God. Also in the Quran, the sun travels in its orbit: "And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming." (21:33).


quran 18:86
the sun sets in muddy water spring 
- You're going too far with your mistranslations. Literally every thing you cite is grossly mistranslated & distorted. What are you trying to prove? That you're dishonest?! Where does it say the sun sets in muddy waters??  – The verse, speaking of Dhul-Qarnayn journey says: "So he travelled a course, Until, when he reached the setting of the sun [i.e., the west], *he* found it [as if] setting in a body of dark water". It is describing the scene witnessed by the king at that moment, a sunset at the end of his journey to the west, at a lake/sea which is dark or murky (often interpreted as the Caspian Sea for its large oil contaminations). 




Quran 18:90:Until, when he came to the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. 
- Again with the terrible translations... 'Matla Shams' literally means Sunrise or East. You're trying too hard & not succeeding much. Is that all?!

- The great irony here, you don't stop talking about how Muslims "misinterpret" the words to fit a narrative, yet that's what you're doing in full force, on top of gross mistranslations & stretched distortions.

who is writing between the lines now ?
Topic's author
#21
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
Verse (18:86) quran
Pickthall: Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Yusuf Ali: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
Shakir: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.
Muhammad Sarwar: to the West where he found the sun setting into a warm source (spring) of water and a people living near by. We asked him, "Dhu 'l-Qarnayn, you may punish them or treat them with kindness?"
Mohsin Khan: Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Arberry: until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and he found nearby a people. We said, 'O Dhool Karnain, either thou shalt chastise them, or thou shalt take towards them a way of kindness.
===============================================================

Verse (13:15) quran
Pickthall: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
Yusuf Ali: Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.
Shakir: Until when he reached the land of the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people to whom We had given no shelter from It;
Muhammad Sarwar: to the East where he found the sun rising upon a people whom We had exposed to its rays.
Mohsin Khan: Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (Allah) had provided no shelter against the sun.
Arberry: until, when he reached the rising of the sun, he found it rising upon a people for whom We had not appointed any veil to shade them from it.
===============================================
quran Verse (18:90)
Pickthall: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
Yusuf Ali: Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.
Shakir: Until when he reached the land of the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people to whom We had given no shelter from It;
Muhammad Sarwar: to the East where he found the sun rising upon a people whom We had exposed to its rays.
Mohsin Khan: Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (Allah) had provided no shelter against the sun.
Arberry: until, when he reached the rising of the sun, he found it rising upon a people for whom We had not appointed any veil to shade them from it.