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@IwantRooseveltagain
Correction: if you call the statement stupid, that’s on topic. If you call them stupid, you’re using a personal attack and, as I already said, are off topic.
Does Putin Approve of Biden's FBI tactics?
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No, if someone makes a statement that is stupid and I call them stupid it is completely on topic
You can call the statement stupid, not the person who makes it.
Saying that someone is stupid is not an argument. Anyone can say it to anyone.
@iwantroosevelt
Debates are a vital part of any democratic society, as they promote discussion, exchange of ideas, and freedom of speech. However, when participants resort to using insults in a debate, they undermine the very purpose of the exercise. Using insults in a debate is not only unproductive but also morally wrong, for several reasons. First, it hinders the progress of the debate by shifting the focus away from the topic at hand. Second, insults create a hostile environment that can prevent meaningful dialogue. Third, insults can be deeply hurtful and may cause long-term damage to individuals involved in the debate. Finally, insults are not conducive to finding common ground and reaching agreements.
One of the primary reasons why using insults in a debate is wrong is that it detracts from the main objective of the discussion. A debate is meant to provide an intellectual space for exchanging ideas, perspectives, and arguments on a particular issue. When individuals start using insults, the debate turns into a personal attack, and participants may become more concerned with defending themselves rather than discussing the issue at hand. The use of insults distracts from the main objective and can lead to a situation where the debate becomes about personal views and opinions, rather than a discussion about facts and evidence.
Moreover, insults create a hostile environment that can prevent meaningful dialogue. When individuals start using insults, they lose sight of the fact that they are engaging with people with whom they may have significant disagreements. The use of insults can make people feel attacked and defensive, which can prevent them from listening to opposing viewpoints and understanding other perspectives. Insults can also create a hostile atmosphere that can prevent participants from expressing their ideas openly and freely. If people feel threatened or ridiculed, they may choose to remain silent rather than engage in the discussion, which further stifles the conversation.
Additionally, insults can be deeply hurtful and may cause long-term damage to individuals involved in the debate. When people resort to insults, they may not fully appreciate the impact their words can have on other people. Insults can be hurtful and can cause long-lasting emotional damage. Even if people do not outwardly show their reactions to insults, they may internalize their feelings, leading to diminished self-esteem and self-worth. Insults can leave people feeling exposed and vulnerable, which can have long-term implications on their confidence and ability to engage in future debates.
Finally, insults are not conducive to finding common ground and reaching agreements. A debate is an opportunity to bring diverse viewpoints together and work towards a common understanding of an issue. Insults, however, are counterproductive to this goal, as they prevent people from finding common ground. When people start hurling insults, they tend to become more defensive and entrenched in their positions, making it more difficult to compromise and find common ground. Insults can create an environment of antagonism and hostility, making it harder for people to come together and find solutions.
In conclusion, using insults in a debate is wrong, as it detracts from the main objective, creates a hostile environment, causes emotional harm, and prevents the possibility of finding common ground. When participating in a debate, it is vital to remain respectful, open-minded, and focused on the issue at hand. Debates are an opportunity to exchange ideas and perspectives, to learn from others and to strengthen our understanding of complex issues. Insults do the opposite, creating a toxic environment and hindering the progress of the conversation. It is essential to engage in debates in a manner that is conducive to productive dialogue and to remember that civility and mutual respect are always the best approach.
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@whiteflame
Umm, if that were true it would stand up to the liar lying example.
If someone lies, they are a liar.
If someone says something stupid, they are stupid - or a moron or other similar description
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@Best.Korea
You can call the statement stupid, not the person who makes it.Saying that someone is stupid is not an argument. Anyone can say it to anyone.
so if someone tells a lie, you can call the statement a lie but not the person a liar? You know that is not true. Common sense and life experience tells you that is not true.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You know the rules - if you didn’t before, then you do now. You can either choose to follow them going forward, or you can see what happens if you keep on pushing.
If you don’t like the rules as they stand, so be it. I’m not here to argue in support of them. You can push for changes to what I’m enforcing if you wish. Until that happens, I will continue to enforce the existing rules.
so if someone tells a lie, you can call the statement a lie but not the person a liar?
Yes. You can call the claim a lie and explain why its a lie. You cannot call the person a liar. In fact, in debates, you are dealing with claims and reasons, not with other persons. How hard is it to stick to that rule?
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@Best.Korea
Yes. You can call the claim a lie and explain why it’s a lie. You cannot call the person a liar. In fact, in debates, you are dealing with claims and reasons, not with other persons. How hard is it to stick to that rule?
So in your world, someone who lies is not a liar? Or you just can’t say what people are? Or is this only in debates? Formal debates or any debate?
By refusing to name liars as liars, are you enhancing debate and understanding or obstructing debate and understanding?
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@Greyparrot
No he is not
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@whiteflame
@Best.Korea
Yes. You can call the claim a lie and explain why its a lie. You cannot call the person a liar. In fact, in debates, you are dealing with claims and reasons, not with other persons. How hard is it to stick to that rule?
Not all wrong statements are lies. Jumping to the conclusion that someone is lying when they make a mistake or have incorrect information can be hurtful and insulting. In an open and respectful forum, we should all give people the benefit of the doubt. Assume innocence before guilt. Assuming that someone is lying right away without considering the possibility of an honest mistake can create a hostile and confrontational environment.
When we encounter a wrong statement in a forum, ideally, we should approach it with understanding and empathy. We should point out the mistake and provide correct information or credible sources to help everyone learn together. Treating each other with respect and being open to learning from our mistakes helps to bring a positive and supportive collaborative atmosphere to the DART forum community. Remember, everyone is on a learning journey, and it's okay to make mistakes. We should work together to build a more inclusive and helpful DART forum environment where people feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and ideas without fear of being insulted or unfairly judged.
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@Best.Korea
Moreover, insults create a hostile environment that can prevent meaningful dialogue.
That’s true but some people participating in debate are not worthy of consideration. Their stupid, blatantly false statements are worthy of nothing more than derision.
Not all wrong statements are lies. Jumping to the conclusion that someone is lying when they make a mistake or have incorrect information can be hurtful and insulting. In an open and respectful forum, we should all give people the benefit of the doubt. Assume innocence before guilt. Assuming that someone is lying right away without considering the possibility of an honest mistake can create a hostile and confrontational environment.
That is why it is important to have the option of calling people a moron. If they are not purposely stating untrue nonsense, then they are stupid, rather than liars. And as I have said before, in the Information Age, ignorance is a choice.
So in your world, someone who lies is not a liar? Or you just can’t say what people are?
You just cant say that people are liars, even if you are sure that they are. It is as simple as that. In debates, you are dealing with claims and reasons, and only with that.
That is why it is important to have the option of calling people a moron.
You already had 1 warning about this.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Attack the statement not the person. Forum debate is like a court room. You can't call someone an idiot...but you can present evidence and let others draw their own conclusions
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@Vegasgiants
Forum debate is like a court room.
In a court room, lying gets you time in jail. If someone is willing to lie, and lie repeatedly in a debate, there is nothing that will curb their lying. Nothing.
That’s why it is necessary to cast derision at these bad actors. As a red flag to others watching the debate.
When people were falsely claiming that Barrack Obama was not born in America, the best way to respond was derision. The people saying it were liars and racists. If you believed the lie, you are stupid.
Not denial. Do not dignify the lie with a response.
Not explanations. If you’re explaining, you’re losing.
Not even copies of his birth certificate. Facts don’t matter to dummies. That’s why they are dummies.
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@Best.Korea
If a lawyer calls a witness a liar, it can lead to various consequences depending on the specific circumstances and the judge's discretion. Here are some possible outcomes:
- Objection from the Opposing Counsel: The opposing counsel may object to the lawyer's statement, arguing that it is an improper and unsupported accusation against the witness. The judge will then decide whether to sustain the objection or allow the lawyer to continue with the line of questioning.
- Instruction to Refrain: The judge may instruct the lawyer to refrain from making unsupported accusations against the witness. This is to maintain fairness and ensure that the witness is treated with respect during the proceedings.
- Cautionary Instruction to the Jury: If the case is being heard by a jury, the judge may issue a cautionary instruction to the jury, advising them to disregard any unsupported statements made by the lawyer that could unfairly influence their perception of the witness's credibility.
- Sanctions or Contempt: In extreme cases or if the behavior persists despite warnings, the judge may impose sanctions on the lawyer or hold them in contempt of court. Sanctions could include fines or other penalties, while contempt of court may result in more severe consequences.
- Mistrial or Disqualification: If the unsupported accusation significantly prejudiced the witness or the opposing party, the judge might declare a mistrial or disqualify the lawyer from the case, depending on the severity of the misconduct.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
But you can not call them a liar. Insults are only necessary if you don't have strong evidence to make a case. It is a sign of a failed argument
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@Vegasgiants
But you can not call them a liar.
There’s no need. Because in court you have the tool called perjury to stop liars from lying. Right? People are u Der oath and lying in court gets you in big trouble.
And you can be forced to testify or face contempt of court and jail.
Perjury is not available in a debate.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Yes you can't stop lying here. You also can't call people names. If we have a forum where people just call each other names I'm out because that is a waste of time. You're not changing anyone's mind here
Just be polite
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@Vegasgiants
If we have a forum where people just call each other names
Um you forgot the important part, - if they lie or say stupid things.
You're not changing anyone's mind here
Nobody is changing the mind of a liar or a moron.
Just be polite
Polite, one could argue, is how we ended up with half the country believing Barrack Obama wasn’t born in America. Is that what you want?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Then call people liars and stupid. Don't let me stop you
But you were warned
Barrack Obama is polite. He doesn't need to insult people
Follow his example
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@Vegasgiants
Insults are only necessary if you don't have strong evidence to make a case.
If that were true, then lying would be allowed in court.
After all, according to you the strong evidence could make the case over the lies, right?
@iwantroosevelt
Look, you dont need to call anyone a liar in order to refute their argument, and calling them a liar doesnt refute their argument.
Dont think that I am trolling you or something. I see that you are on the path of getting yourself banned. I am trying to prevent that. If you get yourself banned, you are only doing favour to your enemies.
The new rules are what they are. They may not be perfect, but at least the site is not filled with insults as much anymore.
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@Vegasgiants
Barrack Obama is polite. He doesn't need to insult people
Yes, he’s polite. I recall after a debate with Mitt Romney, he said he maybe “too polite”. I know this because I follow politics. It’s a hobby. You may no nothing about politics and just come here to be social.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Yes. Court cases are ruled according to the evidence....not because one lawyer called the defendant a poopyhead
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@IwantRooseveltagain
See? You have to make it personal. You don't even know me or what i know.
You are getting frustrated so insults are all you have left
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@Vegasgiants
Court cases are ruled according to the evidence....not because one lawyer called the defendant a poopyhead
You’re deflecting. If court cases can be won on the merits of a “strong case” as you said, why is lying in court prohibited?
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@Vegasgiants
You are getting frustrated so insults are all you have left
I think you are the frustrated party if you can find an insult there somewhere
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Well maybe I know more about everything than you because I am so great. Lol