Delusion In Most Atheists?

Author: BrutalTruth

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#361
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@EtrnlVw
You claimed no God or gods exist. That is due to your atheism, not what is true about reality.
Do you countenance that I could be right? 

However little i know about gods, I know about people because I am one!   It's not hard to work out why people have believed - and continue to - believe in gods; without going into detail, it comes down to psychology and tradition.   When i look around I see no sign of gods - only signs of belief in gods. 

Its not like that for, say gravity.  If i release a hammer it falls - it is not merely a belief that it falls. 

#362
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@keithprosser
I put it to you that it is you, not I, that is inflexible.

Lol, I'd be happy to learn and be more flexible about atheism or materialism, only there is nothing left to learn :) would you like to elaborate on that?
#363
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@keithprosser
Do you countenance that I could be right? 

Very unlikely as I have had my own encounters, atheism would be a denial of the facts, sorry.

However little i know about gods, I know about people because I am one!   It's not hard to work out why people have believed - and continue to - believe in gods; without going into detail, it comes down to psychology and tradition.   When i look around I see no sign of gods - only signs of belief in gods. 

Start be asking not assuming, that would help a bunch. Also we talked about transcending the physical experience, though you may not have, it doesn't mean you will never and that it does not exist. You have a progressive nature to your own soul. 

Its not like that for, say gravity.  If i release a hammer it falls - it is not merely a belief that it falls. 

Spirituality actually operates the same way precisely. It is specifically the application and observation of that nature of reality and is objective. 

#364
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@EtrnlVw
Lol, I'd be happy to learn and be more flexible about atheism or materialism, only there is nothing left to learn :
You have not learned that it is true.


#365
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@keithprosser
Because it would be a denial of facts and experiences, it is NOT true. Obviously or I would settle for atheism...
#366
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@EtrnlVw
Which facts and experience would that be?
#367
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@keithprosser
Spiritual facts, and my own encounters, if I were to accept atheism I would be lying to myself, and I'm not about that. 
#368
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@keithprosser
..and...spiritual facts and encounters are many, not just one thing or another. Which is why I promote asking, be more specific in your questions...
#369
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@EtrnlVw

Spiritual facts, and my own encounters, if I were to accept atheism I would be lying to myself, and I'm not about that. 


Yet you would have me lie to myself about my facts and experiences - you call them delusions.  You demand I am flexible, but seem reluctant to reciprocate.


#370
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@keithprosser
Yet you would have me lie to myself about my facts and experiences - you call them delusions.

When did I do that?

  You demand I am flexible, but seem reluctant to reciprocate.

What do you mean? where was I not flexible? demonstrate that please...

#371
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@keithprosser
Yet you would have me lie to myself about my facts and experiences - you call them delusions. 

If you read my responses in this thread, you will see I never did that...

"They aren't deluded in the sense they believe in something that is fiction but rather accept a reality that is temporal and uncaused, in other words they accept a lesser reality and in doing so they limit their potential. "
#372
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@EtrnlVw
Read my topic "Another Point of View" thoroughly and you will see I never did that.
is 'that' saying atheists are deluded?

You did write in this thread

They're mainly "deluded" in the sense they have been programmed or instructed to accept only a single form of existence or experience....that being the physical layer alone. It's only a perception though, delusions come in many forms but in atheism the delusion comes from accepting only one examination of our experience which makes it more limited than deluded per say because they base it on direct experience and that being the physical sense experience. They aren't deluded in the sense they believe in something that is fiction but rather accept a reality that is temporal and uncaused, in other words they accept a lesser reality and in doing so they limit their potential.

#373
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@keithprosser
Read that again..."They aren't deluded in the sense they believe in something that is fiction but rather accept a reality that is temporal and uncaused, in other words they accept a lesser reality and in doing so they limit their potential."

I was supporting atheists in that statement, I was using the word "deluded" from another persons perspective. 
#374
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@keithprosser
In response to post #353
#375
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@EtrnlVw
In response to post #353
I concede you don't think atheists are as deluded as Mopac thinks we are!   I rarely read mopac's stuff any more - he's tediously monomaniac.

#376
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@keithprosser
Lol, I'd rather just discuss things and leave out the assertions TBH. 
#377
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@keithprosser
Is there any particular reason why you never ask me about my beliefs? when you ask...it sets things up for more discussion about this whole ordeal. And that is ideal.
#378
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@EtrnlVw
What are you beliefs?   Preferably bullet points rather than a wall of text!

#379
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@keithprosser
Just out of curiosity, what about my beliefs have you examined through all these years? I am able to articulate any one persons beliefs in both this forum and DDO's, name them and I'll show you. I would be surprised if you had no idea about my beliefs, I was hoping for more specific questions. I can give you a basic outline but geeze, you don't pay attention?
#380
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@EtrnlVw
He doesn't care. Don't let them fool you at all. They are sick fucks here to get their cocks hard and stroke them  Humor them is to humor evil. 
#381
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@Polytheist-Witch
He doesn't care. Don't let them fool you at all.

What can I say, I'm a sucker...
#382
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@keithprosser
My beliefs in a nutshell...…

There is in fact a spiritual reality, this is something I have observed for myself, I don't need anyone's opinion or observations I have my own. Others observations are what I call cross referencing and that is what spiritual sources are for.

I believe that spirituality and religion as a whole has acquired facts and evidences that are both applicable and observable. This of course relies on participation, application and practice and involves a different nature of experience. 

I believe that spirituality and religion are not just about belief and accepting someone else's testimony, but about experience and learning for oneself, this is the very point of spirituality. That you learn of the spiritual or transcendental aspects of your own experience. You just have to connect with it, not accept it. Two different things and perhaps atheists are unware of that fact. Just because they have never connected with any particular belief does not mean they have to reject the whole idea.

If you have any questions about specifics just ask.

#383
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@EtrnlVw
The question is obvious, but can it be answered?

What do you mean by 'spiritual'?  I've spent a fruitless period discovering it has multiple and inconsistent meanings. 
#384
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I concede you don't think atheists are as deluded as Mopac thinks we are!   I rarely read mopac's stuff any more - he's tediously monomaniac.

What is there to say? You want it to be something different?

As The Ultimate Reality is God, atheism is the denial of Ultimate Reality.



And well, this is certainly what atheism is. A denial of reality. Is this not what delusion is?

And I have good reason for not only believing this, but knowing it. If that is irreconcilable with your insistence on identifying with a deluded and superstitious position well... maybe you should consider abandoning it in favor of a position. that may still be wrong, but is at least REASONABLE. Atheism is not a reasonable position.


If this seems like monomania to you, well, look at it from my perspective. How am I supposed to reason with somebody who identifies with an arbitrary position? It would be foolish for me to even think I can have a truly reasonable discussion with a person who is in denial of reality. Where can we go without addressing the elephant in the room?

How often do I talk about atheism in my day to day life? Not nearly as often as here. And why not? This place is full of nihilists. Clearly this is the sickness we are dealing with here. This is what I am here to address.

You aren't really rejecting me, you are rejecting God. 
#385
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@keithprosser
The question is obvious, but can it be answered?

Yes, as always there is nothing that can't be answered or articulated. 

What do you mean by 'spiritual'?  I've spent a fruitless period discovering it has multiple and inconsistent meanings. 


The reason it has multiple meanings is because the term refers to a wide range of facts and phenomenon. Like saying "material" or "food"....it covers all that is material and all that is food... Likewise the term spiritual refers to all that meets that nature.


#386
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@keithprosser
Commonly refers to the transcendental nature of our experience...what we experience apart from the physical sense perceptions alone. Spirituality refers to that whole field of expertise. 
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#387
BrutalTruth
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Well, he's right in the aspect of personal experience. If one empirically experiences something, and they can conclusively verify what it was, then they can know what it was. If what it was is something spiritual, then they're proven to themselves that something spiritual exists. Unfortunately, in the entire history of man as we know it, no one has ever been able to demonstrably prove any conclusively verifiable spiritual phenomena. That, coupled with the fact that I've never personally experienced such a thing, is the reason for my atheism.
#388
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@Mopac
You aren't really rejecting me
No question about it, absolutely positive, without a shadow of a doubt, it's you.

#389
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@BrutalTruth
Well, he's right in the aspect of personal experience. If one empirically experiences something, and they can conclusively verify what it was, then they can know what it was. If what it was is something spiritual, then they're proven to themselves that something spiritual exists.

Good assumption, as well cross referencing is one of the most compelling aspects of spirituality. 

Unfortunately, in the entire history of man as we know it, no one has ever been able to demonstrably prove any conclusively verifiable spiritual phenomena. That, coupled with the fact that I've never personally experienced such a thing, is the reason for my atheism.

Then you got silly with this one, spirituality has been established like a road map for a very long, long time. It's purpose of course is to feed you bits of knowledge and facts about all of this and how it relates to you personally as you are ready to embrace it. To prove anything about spirituality means to get involved, be willing to get your hands dirty. Stop snuffing it off like it's not a reality, get your butt involved now not later. 
#390
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@EtrnlVw
Commonly refers to the transcendental nature of our experience...what we experience apart from the physical sense perceptions alone. Spirituality refers to that whole field of expertise. 
I am very concerned that we establish a 'common reference frame'.    Let me suggest that the difference between the physical/scientificand the spiritual is akin to the differnce between lust and love... science can explain lust but love is spiritual.   That analogy may not be perfect, but is it the sort of thing you have in mind?