Let's try to have a respectful discussion about this problem in America.
Thug Culture.
Posts
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@Greyparrot
It all boils down to hormones, and the Rutting Stag Syndrome.
Every generation has taken issue with the manners and conduct of the generation after even though they went through the same judgements with the generation before them.
Each progressive generation considers itself smarter than the last and wiser than the next.
In short "Kids... what can you do?"
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@Greyparrot
Can you define what thug culture is, and why it's a problem, as well as the scale of the issue? Kind of important for having a discussion.
Unfortunately, nothing can be done while the average American is pro-gun-rights.
The real way to handle this is to leave the thugs with only baseball bats and knives, that step alone drastically reduces their capacity to be lethal on anything above a small scale without them getting caught.
Guns change everything about an environment and no, I don't mean that 'citizens can fight back'. This idea is nice in theory but in reality against a trained criminal who is 100% willing to die if need be, your hesitation and/or sloppiness with the weapon in the heat of the situation is fairly inevitable. Unlike with a knife or hand-to-hand combat, training with a gun is the less important part than just staying cool-headed and being genuinely calm in a life-and-death one-shot-equals-death scenario.
Cultures that have grown to loathe guns then vote in candidates who push the cops to do many sting operations and the people themselves readily snitch on arms dealers, helping the process.
This then leaves the 'thugs' realising that they're not some amazing group that can instantly kill, they instead need to slowly beat someone to death and/or stab them. The later has more gruesome elements and starts itself deterring less sociopathic types from the lifestyle. Killing with a gun is easier because the amount of expressed agony your victim gives is minimal. This then scars your brain less. I am not saying no traum is involved by if you did the same thing with a baseball bat, crowbar, knife and/or your own limbs, you will find that the whole experience requires much more sadism if you are to enjoy or even cope with it.
The second step aside from eliminating the weapons of instant-death is to start any program possible that can better integrate the 'ghetto' kids and adolescents into the community. Even the 'tough guy' parents often enjoy it, only a select few actually want a gangster street life for their own offspring. If they really believe there's a shot at success in life without the violence and crime for their children, they often will push them into it willingly and help the integration happen even just 1 generation later but certainly 2 (their grandchildren will have double pressure away from the life).
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@RationalMadman
Wow. Just wow. That was well thought out and cogent. It offers real solutions and a plan of action that prioritizes efficacy over grandstanding. Very well stated.
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@secularmerlin
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic but thanks.
Obviously making them have opportunities in education and funding their healthcare so they don't end up in crippling debt just to fix an injury or health concern are factors as well. Then comes weaning them off drugs.
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@Greyparrot
absolutely nothing, thug culture has been ingrained in America since the very beginning, look up hatfield-mccoy feud. Thug culture originates in England and Northern IReland
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@Greyparrot
Let's try to have a respectful discussion about this problem in America.
Please delineate "thug culture" and the problem it creates in America.
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@Dr.Franklin
Did you come across this verifiable truth yourself or have you listened to one of Dr. Thomas Sowell's audio books?
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@RationalMadman
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic but thanks.
No sarcasm. Good post.
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@RationalMadman
The real way to handle this is to leave the thugs with only baseball bats and knives,
The glaring problem with that theory is that guns are not the number one weapon of use. Knives, for example, far exceed gun violence. Further, ban guns, knife use will increase, and further banning levels is a slippery slope until we're down to banning thumbs, which also can kill maliciously. Now you're talking mutilation as a legal response to thuggery. By your argument, the natural end-game is lombotomy, because there is the true source of thuggery, not the gun, nor any other tool used as weapon.
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@949havoc
The glaring problem with that theory is that guns are not the number one weapon of use. Knives, for example, far exceed gun violence. Further, ban guns, knife use will increase, and further banning levels is a slippery slope until we're down to banning thumbs, which also can kill maliciously. Now you're talking mutilation as a legal response to thuggery. By your argument, the natural end-game is lombotomy, because there is the true source of thuggery, not the gun, nor any other tool used as weapon.
What kind of argument is this? If you try to protect people you might have to hurt them? Did you even read this before sending it?
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@949havoc
Further, ban guns, knife use will increase,
This is a good thing from a cop's perspective. Not only does lethality not necessarily occur, though severe injury does, but catching criminals with melee weapons is much more of an easy task for forensics. To begin with, even if they successfully didn't drop any DNA or fingerprints, they had to be very near to the victim at the time of damage, meaning purely by who wasn't there at that time out of reasonable suspects, you can start to narrow down who was.
Guns can be shot from afar, they can also be wielded just as effectively by a novice as an expert, the only difference is accuracy and speed of wield-to-shot. There's essentially nothing about gun warfare that lets you narrow down suspects nearly as efficiently as with melee weapons, it's often not even obvious which is the stronger hand of the shooter because (especially thugs) tend to just hold the gun in front of them, as opposed to a side-stance with strict ways of telling.
The other issue with guns is that it's very difficult for criminals themselves to keep gun violence contained. If things get heated with melee weapons, generally the more experienced fighters (who are often wiser too, as they're experienced with such situations and know how bad it can get) will defuse things and restrain the hotheads. With guns, this entire process becomes infinitely more difficult because it takes just one slip and a kill has happened that will make the allies of the dead wield their guns etc.
Yep, the I don't want certain people to have guns so no one should. Perfect example of thug culture. Cuz everybody knows criminals would never use a gun if they're illegal.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Statistically speaking areas with stronger gun control suffer less gun violence. Please look up statistics of shooting deaths in Great Britain for the last ten years versus those of the united states. You are welcome to adjust by population but I think we both know what you are going to find.
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@secularmerlin
Statistically speaking areas with stronger gun control suffer less gun violence.
Isn't Chicago a gun free city?
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@Greyparrot
It is hard to have effective gun control when guns can be brought easily across state lines. Unfortunately one state cannot regulate gun control on it's own. That is why great Britain is a better example than Chicago. Chicago is from a practical perspective unable to have gun control as long as Indiana has no gun control.
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@secularmerlin
What about Mexico? There's a ton of guns in Mexico that any thug in Chicago can get as easily as Indiana.
Maybe we should tackle the Thug Culture problem before attempting to solve the Gun Culture. I'm much more worried about an unarmed thug sitting next to me on a train than a gun on a random person.
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@Greyparrot
What about Mexico? There's a ton of guns in Mexico that any thug in Chicago can get as easily as Indiana.
What about Mexico? We regulate border crossings there and passports are needed. This is not the situation between Chicago and Indiana.
Maybe we should tackle the Thug Culture problem before attempting to solve the Gun Culture. I'm much more worried about a thug sitting next to me on a train than a gun.
I wouldn't worry unless it is your gun. Statistically speaking you are more likely to be harmed by your own firearm than someone else's. Also perhaps we shouldn't be arming first responders and training them to view the people they are sworn to protect as potentially dangerous criminals. Perhaps we should not fetishize the police on tv and in movies perpetuating the myth that police protect us from gun violence when they are in fact some of the largest contributors to gun violence. That might help. In fact if the police didn't foster an attitude of us versus them maybe a lot of the thug culture you are worried about would clear up on its own.
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@secularmerlin
What about protection from Thug violence?
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@Greyparrot
What about protection from police violence?
Cuz everybody knows criminals would never use a gun if they're illegal.
They don't. It's significantly difficult to get guns in places like the UK, South Korea, Japan and other places less so, such as Germany and Australia (though, that guy attacking in NZ got his guns in Aus and recently UK had a gun-based attack).
The most important step in the sting operations and overall removal of guns succeeding is that the people themselves need to culturally grow to loathe gun violence more than cops taking said guns away. A healthy step in that direction is to promise the populace that once guns are securely removed from them, the police will default to be gunless and only have special units trained in gun-based conflict for a select few criminals who somehow still have it after the 'purge'.
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@secularmerlin
What about protection from police violence?
93% of the 10,000 blacks murdered are killed annually by Thugs. 2% are killed by cops. I think we can let the police issue take a back seat for a bit.
Now, what are your proposals for addressing Thug Culture.
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@Greyparrot
If you are making a distinction betwee killing and murder your statistics don't surprise me. They also don't tell the whole story. In any case I haven't even asked yet and I think it's time. What exactly do you mean by thug? What is a thug in the context of this conversation?
need to culturally grow to loathe gun violence more than cops taking said guns away.
We can't even get to a point where passengers on a train loath watching a woman getting raped repeatedly on a train for 45 minutes by a thug.
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@secularmerlin
What exactly do you mean by thug? What is a thug in the context of this conversation?
Its often used as a dog whistle for black people.
(why is blm in the title?)
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@Greyparrot
Dr. Thomas Sowell pioneered this Research also David Hackett Fischer with his fantastic work The Albion Seed led me to that conclusion
your opinion is...?
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@Dr.Franklin
It's not really an opinion if you are going to bring a massive table of facts from Dr. Sowell.
It would be like saying "I believe the Earth is not flat."
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@Greyparrot
What exactly do you mean by thug? What is a thug in the context of this conversation?