APOTHEOSIS

Author: 3RU7AL
Ethics
intp
Information War
Anarchy
GNOSTIC

Posts

Total: 29
Topic's author
#1
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
if i made a bunch of robots

on a deserted island

or on the moon

or maybe i genetically engineered the robots

so they grew from cells

and i expected them to worship me

without giving them any direct evidence of my existence

would that seem crazy to you ?
#2
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,572
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@3RU7AL

OR, maybe you realized you screwed up their design, then you decided to hide from them so they never heard from you or saw you.


Topic's author
#3
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@FLRW
OR, maybe you realized you screwed up their design, then you decided to hide from them so they never heard from you or saw you.
Good point.

I'd probably be quite embarrassed if they started killing each other over stupid stuff.
#4
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,572
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

OMG. you really are GOD!
#5
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,897
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@FLRW
OMG. you really are GOD!

Nope, he is just the human creator. 

God created the creator. 

Google created God.  

Al Gore created the platform for Google.

Apple created the Al Gore { the Robot }

Steve Jobs and Wozinack created Apple

Their mothers and fathers created them

Their mothers and father split off from the apes approximately 7.5 million years ago

A comet full of aliens created the their mothers mothers

Hollywood on another planet created the Aliens in the comet







Topic's author
#6
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ebuc
there it is
#7
Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
-->
@3RU7AL
If a particular demographic has the imagination to concoct the story that Bill Gates invented Covid so he could microchip everyone with the vaccine; then Grarg the caveman was probably capable enough to make the claim that plants grow because the Sun is magic; and it may get mad if we don’t thank it. 


#8
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,060
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Ramshutu
There it is too.
#9
MarkWebberFan
MarkWebberFan's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 291
1
2
6
MarkWebberFan's avatar
MarkWebberFan
1
2
6
-->
@3RU7AL
Nope. That sounds more exciting and more unpredictable than appearing before your followers.
Topic's author
#10
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan
Nope. That sounds more exciting and more unpredictable than appearing before your followers.
Why would I make something and expect it to worship me ?

I fail to see the logic.
#11
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,897
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
Why would I make something and expect it to worship me ?

Because a less complex something cannot make something more complex than itself, and just in case that is not a more cosmic principle,

the more complex creator instill fear into the less  complex entity,  as 2ndary precautionary measure, to insure, that, the less complex entity cannot create and entity as more complex than its creator.

Rememeber computers { robots } special-case ability, are to do an amazing amount of calculations in less time,  than any biologic creature.

The more complex biologic creature has more generalized skill set of abilities that are resultant of a more complex consciousness ergo the interplay between heart/feelings >and< access to Meta-space, mind/intellect/concepts.


...............space(> * <)  i   (> * <)space......

i = Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts ergo ego/identity  ---Meta = beyond---

* * = bilateral consciousness

>< = invaginations from diametrically oppossing forces of Gravity (  ) and Dark Enegy )(

space = macro-infinite non-occupied space, that, embraces the occupied space (>*<)(>*<) Universe

#12
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@3RU7AL
The assumption that God created robots is contrary to what is given in the creation account, strictly because among the gifts given to man was dominion, and that dominion is possible only by agency to act for and on behalf of himself, but as importantly, for the whole Earth. Gen 1: 26. Had God wanted to be a puppet master, he'd have retained the dominion for himself, but we're supposed to learn how its done in order to become like God, ourselves.  That's not blasphemy if we truly act to deserve it.

That said, it is man who decides to surrender that dominion to act by his nature, which is carnal, sensual, and devilish. The natural man is an enemy of God. The divine man takes dominion, but uses it to benefit the whole Earth, to make of Earth the heaven it deserves to be, and will be. The conundrum in all this is that it is man, the highest and most holy of creations, by intention of God, who can so easily fall from his place of honor among all creation, while the lower animals, in our reckoning, who, by their nature, fulfill the full measure of their creation, will inherit heaven, whether we do so, or not. It all depends on how we handle the gift of dominion.
#13
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
Rape and Resurrection
 
What have they done to the earth?
What have they done to our fair sister?
            - Jim Morrison
 
 
 
I come to kiss the stones,
To hear her granite thunder memory,
Recovery of wonder,
With fingers dredged in her wet skin,
In her dry boil of dust, in her grass tide.
 
I would know her as a virgin,
Green, untied, uncombed,
Uncompromised blue heaven,
Before the manic apathy of eyes
And lecherous hands,
Stampede of bulls
Before the whoring sweat
And violent mix of blood and tears, 
And cracking clay,
The last sweet stink of butchery,
Of their blood retching in the dust.
They cheer their hot foul fury,
Breathing in the adoration,
Breathing out wide nostril carnage.
Emphatic grace in speed magnificent,
Their dance in dust in time to fury’s lust,
The plant, the thrust, and gorge her delicate skin.
The rape of Gaia:
Sharp and gray as steel thunder,
As roar of leaves before the storm.
 
 After the fall,
The stone dropped in the brilliant air
Will shatter the water,
Erupt a crown,
Will ripple to the water’s edge,
Embrace the shore,
Shake the roots,
Tremble in the trees,
Gather the clouds,
Roll the earth upon her glory road.
And I will walk the road
And kiss the stones,
And tell her, whisper in her grass,
You are my only country now.

©1993 Havoc
Topic's author
#14
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
The assumption that God created robots is contrary to what is given in the creation account, strictly because among the gifts given to man was dominion, and that dominion is possible only by agency to act for and on behalf of himself, but as importantly, for the whole Earth. Gen 1: 26. Had God wanted to be a puppet master, he'd have retained the dominion for himself, but we're supposed to learn how its done in order to become like God, ourselves.  That's not blasphemy if we truly act to deserve it.
Hold on.

So you're suggesting that god made humans in order to teach them to be more like god.

Humans are baby gods.

There seems to be a major design flaw.
Topic's author
#15
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
to act by his nature, which is carnal, sensual, and devilish
Yeah, who made this "human nature" stuff anyway ?
Topic's author
#16
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
The natural man is an enemy of God.
By design ?
#17
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@3RU7AL
There seems to be a major design flaw.
Enter the purpose of creation. The design is not flawed, we were not intended to be created as perfect beings. As I said, we were given the gift of dominion to learn how to overcome our inadequacies, to learn how to become perfect by our own efforts, with help from God if we ask properly. We are not born perfect, we acquire perfection by our effort to put off the natural man and become divine by our choice to do so, and act properly by our choices, This is why determinism is false. We cannot be coerced to be perfect.
#18
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@3RU7AL
By design ?
Yes, as described above, #17.

The notion that God can only create perfect things is just an excuse to attempt to demonstrate that he is not, because, we suppose, erroneously, that God cannot create imperfect things, or he would not be God. That's just forced limited thinking.

To think that God is omnipotent does not mean that he must always act omnipotently. Do you use all your power you possess, all the time, or do you use just enough to get the job done?
Topic's author
#19
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
To think that God is omnipotent does not mean that he must always act omnipotently.
OMNI = ALL

POTENT = POWER

THERE IS NO POWER WITHOUT GOD

THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE POWER SOURCE

GOD IS THE CREATOR AND SUSTAINER OF ALL THINGS AND ALL EVENTS

WITHOUT GOD'S EXPLICIT CONSENT, ANY UNSUSTAINED THING AND OR EVENT WOULD CEASE TO HAVE EVER EXISTED
Topic's author
#20
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
The notion that God can only create perfect things is just an excuse to attempt to demonstrate that he is not,
How can you tell if a god is perfect or imperfect ?

How can you tell if a great engineer is skilled or unskilled ?

You will know them by their fruits.
Topic's author
#21
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
We cannot be coerced to be perfect.
Be perfect or burn in hell forever.

Be perfect and get eternal reward in heaven.

Please explain exactly what you mean by "cannot be coerced".
#22
MarkWebberFan
MarkWebberFan's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 291
1
2
6
MarkWebberFan's avatar
MarkWebberFan
1
2
6
-->
@3RU7AL
Why would I make something and expect it to worship me ?

I fail to see the logic.
Now that's an interesting possibility. I'll have my thoughts on that. 
Topic's author
#23
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
The design is not flawed,
#24
Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
-->
@949havoc
Enter the purpose of creation. The design is not flawed, we were not intended to be created as perfect beings. As I said, we were given the gift of dominion to learn how to overcome our inadequacies, to learn how to become perfect by our own efforts, with help from God if we ask properly.

I sometimes like the way the religious grossly over simplify reality, nature and our place within it in order to printed the grotesque, irrational shit show of how things actually are in reality are somehow reasonable.

For example, there are amoeba that eat children’s  eye balls. Mountains explode and wipe out everyone nearby; there can be massive tsunamis that follow earthquakes that wipe out everything in its path. 

There are droughts, locusts, plagues, the Black Death, Malaria, Pedophiles, asteroid impacts; not to mention God flooding the planet, wing out cities and having a preferred race of people who he commands to murder almost everyone else.


If this reality is about allowing humans to overcome our limitation: it sure as hell has had 10,000 years of both needless suffering, and a system that has been inherently set up for our own failure.



What you sound like, is the Starwars Fanboys trying to justify how the Kessel Run was actually some convoluted distance related thing: whereas the reality, they are simply covering for a human error in the construction of the story.


Christian Apologists are just the equivalent of professional Fan theorists trying to explain all the plot holes in Harry Potter.



#25
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@3RU7AL
Sorry, you're going to have to spell it out. I don't youtube unless I know the reference is safe.
Not to mention that anyone can post just about anything on youtube with no guarantee that it has academic substance in fact.
#26
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@Ramshutu
there are amoeba that eat children’s  eye balls.
etc, etc, 

Yes, but what did I say about creation? That God had no intent, and did not create a perfect world. Never did, never intended to, never will. Why create something and someone already perfect when growth from imperfection to perfection is the whole point of creation in the first place? How many Christians loonies tell you that? Not many. I'm one of the few. If we were already perfect, what need have we of Christ? It's because we're not perfect that Christ is needed. And that was the second point of creation. That Christ is needed. And we learn that from Genesis. The need of Christ did not become a reality only upon his birth. Why else is Adam & Eve told that though they would suffer from temptation by Satan, that Christ would bruise Satan's head, and Satan would bruise Christ's heel? Gen 3: 14 - 17.
#27
Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
-->
@949havoc
Yes, but what did I say about creation? That God had no intent, and did not create a perfect world.
Etc etc.

The difference between an imperfect world, that allows us to learn, grow and overcome adversity in order for us to better ourselves - and this world - with arbitrary excruciating deaths, pointless suffering, unavoidable consequences and levels of horror simply beggars belief - is so vast that I can’t even begin to explain exactly how much your sanitized, hallmark, PG tellanovella interpretation missing the mark.

This world isn’t just imperfect, it’s odious, vile, and the idea that humans have had to put up with over 10,000 years of unending painful suffering through disease an illness that we’ve only been able to cure for the last 100 years is frankly sickening.

Tell me, all those third world children dying painful deaths of dysentery, malaria and cholera - what opportunity have they been given to better themselves.


This laughable attempt to justify whatever the shit you think nature is, is simply And purely self deception.


Topic's author
#28
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@949havoc
It's because we're not perfect that Christ is needed.
So, the jesus was just a bug fix.

Got it.

939 days later

Topic's author
#29
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Ramshutu
This world isn’t just imperfect, it’s odious, vile, and the idea that humans have had to put up with over 10,000 years of unending painful suffering through disease an illness that we’ve only been able to cure for the last 100 years is frankly sickening.