Christians can’t do good as Christians!

Author: BrotherDThomas

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#31
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@Stephen
 And I simply asked you are the words in the bible"good". And you fell at the first fence .....as usual.

What does the bible mean by "good" when it talks about the "good Samaritan"? 
And what does the bible mean by "good" when it speaks of the "good shepherd"?

You see Reverend "Tradey" these are questions that you should be well versed in to answer and in a position to answer in your capacity as a Pastor and Chaplain to your countries defence forces,  not to mention all those " university students that you lecture and tutor"  about the "good book",  but suddenly refused to.  But then the bible that mentions the words "good" over 800 times is "just a book" to you,isn't it  Reverend "Tradey"?  That is until you get in front of your parishioners and you start preaching from the "good" book" and interpreting what you believe the bible means by "good".

I'll say it again, you are a hypocrite, Reverend "Tradey" and a cowardly bible dunce to-boot!
The problem dear Stephen is this.  You have a track record. I fully expect that since you are entirely jealous of me that you will follow your history and simply attack (whilst countering with "words, what words? Words can't hurt, can they?) at every opportunity.  

If I actually thought you wanted to have a productive conversation I would join in with you. Yet, as soon as I do such as above - you try and turn it into something else.

honestly, you should just get a life.  And to prove that I am right I will respond from now on - in relation to the pertinent parts of your post.

What does the bible mean by "good" when it talks about the "good Samaritan"? 
And what does the bible mean by "good" when it speaks of the "good shepherd"?

Firstly, the bible never talks about the "good Samaritan".  The title is added by English translators - but not from the greek.  So the Bible itself never talks about it. Of course you knew this didn't you? 

Secondly, "good shepherd: is referred to three times in the bible. John 10:11 x 2 and then John 10:14. 

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 

I am the the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me. 

In all cases Jesus is referring to himself as the good shepherd. He is contrasting himself with the hired help.  In the third usage he is also relating that his sheep know him.  

The context from v.10 Jesus is clearly contrasting himself with those who are the hired help or the robbers.  I would suggest this is a comparison between Jesus the owner of the sheep v the Pharisees, the hired help and current leaders of Israel. He will demonstrate his true status as owner by dying for his people.  Whereas the leaders of the Jews would not do so. 

"Good" in this particular sense seems to be the true as opposed to the false.  



 


#32
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There's actual stories that explain what they mean by good.
#33
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@Tradesecret
Firstly, the bible never talks about the "good Samaritan".  The title is added by English translators - but not from the greek.  So the Bible itself never talks about it. Of course you knew this didn't you? 

Secondly, "good shepherd: is referred to three times in the bible. John 10:11 x 2 and then John 10:14. 

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 

I am the the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me. 


Now try answering the question; What does the bible mean by "good" when it talks about the "good Samaritan"? 
And what does the bible mean by "good" when it speaks of the "good shepherd"? Keeping in mind that it was you that asked "what is good".

#34
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@Stephen
The bible does not talk about the Samaritan being good. So the answer is the bible does not talk about good in that context. 

In relation to the shepherd in those verses - good is being referred to as "not the wrong one. 


#35
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@Tradesecret
The bible does not talk about the Samaritan being good. So the answer is the bible does not talk about good in that context. 

 Stop it! I am speaking only of the word "good" as used in both these biblical parables.    The bible clearly speaks of that act of doing "good" as in the Samarian doing good to a complete stranger.  The parable doesn't say the Samaritan was good . I am asking you was his actions towards the stranger "good"?  Yes or no?


In relation to the shepherd in those verses - good is being referred to as "not the wrong one. 

The "good" shepherd is simply a story of not wasting ones time with those that are already believers/ followers . But to search out and make a believer of the one that doesn't believe , i.e the lost sheep. In other words don't waste your time preaching to the converted.

Both are examples of  " good"  in the opinion of Jesus.

Yet you are here asking "what is good"  ?  Or do you not agree with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? 

Jesus says no one is "good" , including himself yet Christians refer to the Samaritan as "good" and Jesus calls the shepherd "good" .  This then is clearly a contradiction on his part or on the part of very forgetful and contradictory  bible scribes.

So are you now going to tell us what the bible means when it uses the word "good"?  Of course your'e not. Your question was a question born of pure ignorance. And a question that even you cannot answer . 

Get well soon Reverend "Tradey".





#36
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@Stephen
The bible does not talk about the Samaritan being good. So the answer is the bible does not talk about good in that context. 

 Stop it! I am speaking only of the word "good" as used in both these biblical parables.    The bible clearly speaks of that act of doing "good" as in the Samarian doing good to a complete stranger.  The parable doesn't say the Samaritan was good . I am asking you was his actions towards the stranger "good"?  Yes or no?

Stephen, you - not me - asked a  question. How am I supposed to know what you are asking when you are being deliberately vague? The bible never refers to the Samaritan as being good.  Jesus' parable was in relation to what? To who is my neighbor?   Not to who is good?  Was the Samaritan good?  I would say - he did a kind and a merciful act.  Does this make him good? IDK.  His actions were good in my view from a human secular point of view. But the bible is not talking about good or bad here is it?  It is asking the question - who is my neighbor?

If you are asking me whether his actions are good? I would say they reflect goodness.  But so would you - even though you said above you did not have an answer.  So don't be a jerk. Stop telling lies and respond accordingly. 


In relation to the shepherd in those verses - good is being referred to as "not the wrong one. 

The "good" shepherd is simply a story of not wasting ones time with those that are already believers/ followers . But to search out and make a believer of the one that doesn't believe , i.e the lost sheep. In other words don't waste your time preaching to the converted.

Both are examples of  " good"  in the opinion of Jesus.

Yet you are here asking "what is good"  ?  Or do you not agree with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? 
I disagree.  I have explained that above.  It is not simply a story of "not wasting time." Wow, that actually reveals lots about you.  

I never asked what Jesus or the bible or God thought was good.  LLOL! I asked Deb-8-a-bull, what they thought good was.  Don't you even read what others say? Of course not. My question did not imply I did not know what I thought good was. It was me asking Deb what she or he thought it meant.  I often forget about you lack of comprehension skills.  Wow! 

I am not asking here what is Jesus' standard or good nor of God's nor of the bible's view. You are. 


Jesus says no one is "good" , including himself yet Christians refer to the Samaritan as "good" and Jesus calls the shepherd "good" .  This then is clearly a contradiction on his part or on the part of very forgetful and contradictory  bible scribes.
Yes that is true. But not including himself.  In fact I would suggest that he was in fact - pointing himself out as God. As many Christians do,. Your prejudice goes the other way - good for you. 


So are you now going to tell us what the bible means when it uses the word "good"?  Of course your'e not. Your question was a question born of pure ignorance. And a question that even you cannot answer . 
Ah, no. My question was directed at asking Deb-8-a-bull what they thought it meant.  You decided to change the direction of the thread. Not me.  

Just because you lack comprehension skills as well as cognitive ability to understand - does not mean that others have to fall down the rabbit hole with you. 



#37
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@Tradesecret
Stephen, you - not me - asked a  question.

 Nope! You asked " what is good" and before I had asked anything at all on this thread.  Here>> #10..............

 Tradesecret wrote: Firstly, what is good?

 ................and you have been swerving and dodging my own question to you since.

Jesus says no one is "good" , including himself yet Christians refer to the Samaritan as "good" and Jesus calls the shepherd "good" .  This then is clearly a contradiction on his part or on the part of very forgetful and contradictory  bible scribes.
Yes that is true. But not including himself.

Wrong! Stop trying to rewrite scripture AGAIN,  Reverend.

Jesus clearly points to himself first when asking "why do you calm me good, no one is good" . Jesus does not exclude himself. Stop lying

 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.Luke 18:18-19.



 
Get well soon Reverend "Tradey".  


#38
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@Stephen
Stephen, you - not me - asked a  question.

 Nope! You asked " what is good" and before I had asked anything at all on this thread.  Here>> #10..............
Nope.  You are wrong. I asked  Deb-8-a-bull what she / he thought good was. I was not asking because I did not have an answer. Stop twisting things around. You then jumped into the discussion and asked me to answer the question. It was your question to me - in our discrete discussion - so again stop twisting facts. 


 Tradesecret wrote: Firstly, what is good?

 ................and you have been swerving and dodging my own question to you since.
It is you who are swerving and dodging. I have answered twice now.   


Jesus says no one is "good" , including himself yet Christians refer to the Samaritan as "good" and Jesus calls the shepherd "good" .  This then is clearly a contradiction on his part or on the part of very forgetful and contradictory  bible scribes.
Yes that is true. But not including himself.

Wrong! Stop trying to rewrite scripture AGAIN,  Reverend.

Jesus clearly points to himself first when asking "why do you calm me good, no one is good" . Jesus does not exclude himself. Stop lying
What Jesus says is ambiguous.  I say that because what he says has a couple of plausible interpretations. 

The first is: Jesus is saying "Don't call me good because only God is good and I am not God". 
The second is: "You unknowingly call me good, even though it is true, because I am God". 

Jesus nowhere in this texts says "I am not good".  Nor does he say "I am not God".  He says "none is good, save God". 

Good interpretation of this text does not start with the ambiguities in this text, but rather in the plain teaching of other texts.

So in that respect, I am not going there.  Stephen.  I accept that your interpretation is one point of view.  Others including myself come to a different point of view.  Jesus never denies he was good.  Does he? He does three things. Firstly, he queries why this person calls him good. Notice it is not a denial. Secondly, Jesus points out the obvious fact that no one is good save one.      The obvious question is who is the one?  Again it is not a denial of himself being the one. You can try and inject your denial in there but it is not there. And finally, Jesus points out that the one is God.  The most obvious inference from this discussion is that Jesus was calling himself the one who is good - God.  

 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.Luke 18:18-19.
What also is interesting is that this idea of good is one that Jesus seems to be holding alone. Did the rich man think "good" was calling someone god? I doubt it. So the rich man and Jesus have two different understandings of good.  Or do you think the rich man thought Jesus was God and therefore called him good? 

There is no reason for Jesus to make this precise definition unless it was to contrast what the man thought good was next to what Jesus thought good was.  The rich man thought good was just about "not breaking the law", or keeping up appearances. Jesus drills down into that idea and says good is not about keeping the law but by putting your loyalty to God above everything else. In this particular example he touched the man's most valuable idol - money.  Give your money to the poor - and then come follow me.  Most people read this verse and concentrate on the giving up money as though that it the only part - but the second part - "come follow me" is just as important.  Jesus is saying - I, the good God are more valuable than all the riches in the world. 

There is also a secondary picture going on as well. It is that Jesus is the only one in this this world who NEVER sinned.  And the reason this is true is because he is God.  The entire point of his life was to die as the perfect lamb of God. One who is perfect or indeed in this sense good.  The good shepherd who lays down his life for his sheep.  

And the story of the rich man is a story of salvation, isn't? v.26 are bewildered because they took the view that wealth was a sign of God's blessing and favor.  Jesus had just finished explaining that salvation was impossible for ANYONE.  but v.27 he then says but what is impossible for man is POSSIBLE for God.  It is impossible for man to be good - but for God all things are possible. Another inference to his own deity. v. 29-30 Jesus then follows up with the main principle here that he was expressing to the rich man - loyalty to God over and above all other idols is what the concept of good is all about.  
#39
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@Tradesecret
Stephen, you - not me - asked a  question.

 Nope! You asked " what is good" and before I had asked anything at all on this thread.  Here>> #10..............
Nope.  You are wrong. I asked  Deb-8-a-bull what she / he thought good was.

Typical complete denial when caught out bullshitting. Simply show me a question that I asked before post your post  #10?

It matters not who you asked, the fact remains that I asked you a question and you simply dodged it.

 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.Luke 18:18-19.
What also is interesting is that this idea of good is one that Jesus seems to be holding alone. 

Correct. And  I have highlighted that fact  already you clown. HERE>> 

Stephen wrote: "Both are examples of  " good"  in the opinion of Jesus.

Yet you are here asking "what is good"  ?  Or do you not agree with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? #35

And you dodged that question too.


Get well soon Reverend "Tradey"


#40
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@Stephen
Stephen, you - not me - asked a  question.

 Nope! You asked " what is good" and before I had asked anything at all on this thread.  Here>> #10..............
Nope.  You are wrong. I asked  Deb-8-a-bull what she / he thought good was.

Typical complete denial when caught out bullshitting. Simply show me a question that I asked before post your post  #10?

It matters not who you asked, the fact remains that I asked you a question and you simply dodged it.

 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.Luke 18:18-19.
What also is interesting is that this idea of good is one that Jesus seems to be holding alone. 

Correct. And  I have highlighted that fact  already you clown. HERE>> 

Stephen wrote: "Both are examples of  " good"  in the opinion of Jesus.

Yet you are here asking "what is good"  ?  Or do you not agree with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? #35

And you dodged that question too.


Get well soon Reverend "Tradey"
NO I have not dodged the question. what a pathetic response. I disagree with you. LOL!

What question have i dodged? 

#41
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@Tradesecret
Stephen, you - not me - asked a  question.

 Nope! You asked " what is good" and before I had asked anything at all on this thread.  Here>> #10..............
Nope.  You are wrong. I asked  Deb-8-a-bull what she / he thought good was.

Typical complete denial when caught out bullshitting. Simply show me a question that I asked before post your post  #10?

It matters not who you asked, the fact remains that I asked you a question and you simply dodged it.

 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.Luke 18:18-19.
What also is interesting is that this idea of good is one that Jesus seems to be holding alone. 

Correct. And  I have highlighted that fact  already you clown. HERE>> 

Stephen wrote: "Both are examples of  " good"  in the opinion of Jesus.

Yet you are here asking "what is good"  ?  Or do you not agree with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? #35

And you dodged that question too.


Get well soon Reverend "Tradey"


What question have i dodged? 

Do you agree  with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? #35

Or are you simply intent on causing an unnecessary argument on another members thread rather than answer the question?



#42
Tradesecret
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@Stephen
Do you agree  with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? #35
Please clarify what you think Jesus standard of good is and then perhaps we can discuss whether your opinion is disputed. 


Or are you simply intent on causing an unnecessary argument on another members thread rather than answer the question?
I have no intention of doing so. 
#43
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@Tradesecret
Do you agree  with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? #35
Please clarify what you think Jesus standard of good is. 

So you don't know.   Just as I thought.

Jesus in both  parables  of the Samaritan and the shepherd gives examples of what good is  yet you have to come here after all of your years of training under all those academic scholars, preachers and teachers and ask the question "what is good"?

Tradesecrete wrote: I do  understand Orthodoxy. I studied and was tutored by academics, scholars, and priests and fathers from the Orthodox Church. 
#91


And you obviously learned a lot less from your "Hebrew teacher"#45 🤣🤣🤣


#44
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@Stephen
Do you agree  with Jesus' standard of what "good" is? #35
Please clarify what you think Jesus standard of good is. 

So you don't know.   Just as I thought.

Jesus in both  parables  of the Samaritan and the shepherd gives examples of what good is  yet you have to come here after all of your years of training under all those academic scholars, preachers and teachers and ask the question "what is good"?

Tradesecrete wrote: I do  understand Orthodoxy. I studied and was tutored by academics, scholars, and priests and fathers from the Orthodox Church. 


And you obviously learned a lot less from your "Hebrew teacher"#45 🤣🤣🤣

LOL!

Just because I asked you to clarify what you mean - does not mean anything more than I am asking you to clarify what you mean. I don't know what you mean or think Jesus' standard of what good is.    How could I know that UNLESS I can read your mind? 

You obviously have a viewpoint.  I expect it will be different from my view.  Hence, me asking you to clarify what you mean.  In order for us to be talking about the same thing.  

People do understand the word "good" differently.  Even in the passage above Jesus and the rich man have different understandings.   Your attempt to somehow make this about something else is predictable. It is one of your ways of avoiding answering questions.  But unless you can come up with something, I am not going to play along. 


319 days later

#45
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Don't misunderstand me. But an assumed Christian can only do one thing. And I have been told this over and over on this forum. There is no Christian worldview. There are no Christian doctrines that we follow all the time because we cherry pick them at will, and let the disturbing doctrines remain on the side, and if we did follow a few of these disturbing doctrines, we would be doing prison time in the name of Jesus. There are just Christians who ALL believe in Jesus in so many different ways because of so many contradicting divisions of the  faith!  In fact this is our only belief in who in the Hell is the real Jesus?!     LOL!

So if someone who calls themselves a Christian - does good or is benevolent to someone - it is not the result of their Christianity.   In fact that would be impossible.  Because if it was - then this would be implying that there are positive beliefs that flow from Christianity even when the Bible contradicts itself ad infinitum.  But we know that has to be untrue, even though it does. 

So how then can a Christian do good things if it does not always flow from their Christian view?  

It is because they have to borrow from other world views that preceded Christianity- things like morality and goodness and well, everything for that matter.  They are really a lot like leaches aren't we? 

Assumed Christians therefore only ever do good works and benevolent things when they borrow them from someone else, like Christianity did from many  previous religions, especially Mithraism that was copied by Christianity verbatim!!!   And given that there is not an Christian worldview because our divisions of the faith contradict each other - it must flow from a non-Christian worldview and understanding of the world.  Assumed Christians do good not because they are Christians, but because Jesus tells them to be good for their salvation.  Don't you love this? 

So every time a Christian does anything good - they actually reveal a belief in Humanism even if they with their mouths and their minds are Christians.  This is such an amusing thing.  

I as being the only True Christian upon this forum have had to accept the above facts towards Christianity.

How will the assumed Christian rationalize this? Well we will wait and find out won’t we.  
There is little change in a person who converts to Christianity. Everything from there on can be justified by faith.

Justification by Faith.
The teaching of justification by faith is what separates biblical Christianity from all other belief systems. In every religion, and in some branches of what is called “Christianity,” man is working his way to God. Only in true, biblical Christianity is man saved as a result of grace through faith. Only when we get back to the Bible do we see that justification is by faith, apart from works.

Once a person is justified, there is nothing else he needs in order to gain entrance into heaven. Since justification comes by faith in Christ, based on His work on our behalf, our own works are disqualified as a means of salvation (Romans 3:28). There exist vast religious systems with complex theologies that teach the false doctrine of justification by works. But they are teaching “a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all” (Galatians 1:6–7).

This might explain why there is little change in a person who converts to Christianity. Everything from there on can be justified by faith.

Extremely well put!
So you accept you are the same person you were before your conversion, except the same past actions are now justifiable by faith.