Immoral to use drugs/vaccines developed with fetal cells?!

Author: SkepticalOne

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A regional medical center in Arkansas is requiring all staff to be vaccinated by Oct 8. About 5% of staff are using religious exemptions to avoid getting vaccinated because they were developed with fetal cells lines (from an abortion in 1973).

Interestingly, a number of OTC medications were also developed with this same cell line. Hospital administrators, in an effort to ensure sincere belief and perhaps inform those unaware of the scope of their convictions, are requiring objectors to sign a form stating they will cease using these drugs as well. These include Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Motrin, Tums, Pepto Bismol, aspirin, Benadryl, etc. 



Suffice to say, I am of the opinion there is nothing immoral with using any of these drugs/vaccines. Even if someone were opposed to abortion, the abortion from which these cells are derived has already occurred. No amount of conscientious objection will change that. Might it be that from a prolife position utilizing these cells is the best way to honor the fetus from which they came? 

I dont know - food for thought.

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Denmark became one of the first countries in the world to offer prenatal Down syndrome screening to every pregnant woman, regardless of age or other risk factors. Nearly all expecting mothers choose to take the test; of those who get a Down syndrome diagnosis, more than 95 percent choose to abort.
Since universal screening was introduced, the number of children born with Down syndrome has fallen sharply. In 2019, only 18 were born in the entire country. (About 6,000 children with Down syndrome are born in the U.S. each year.)
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@SkepticalOne
There are some less effective vaccines that were developed without any fetal tissue.  Although none of them are FDA approved, I think we should provide an FDA exemption in light of the emergency (retaining qualified nurses, however misguided by FOX and church, is a national emergency at this point, ).

  • Israel – Pluristem Using placenta donated from newborn babies
  • JPII Medical Research Inst. And CET (Cellular Engineering Technology) Uses stem cell from postnatal placental tissue
  • Novavax – NVX-CoV2373 Uses Insect cells
There's a lot more- there's some 300 different vaccines in the testing stage. 

We could point out further hypocrisies- a large amount of cosmetics, medicine, and food products were developed using tissue cloned from fetuses aborted fifty years ago- but I think Republican brainwashing is far past the point of being embarrassed by their lack of consistency.  If it keeps experienced medical staff in place, I think taxpayers should happily pay the costs of buying the most effective vaccine that used no fetal cells in development. 

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@FLRW
Such is material progress.

Things will be done because we learn how to do them.

And morality is sometimes unnecessary overthink.

Food for thought indeed, especially if one is not a pacifist vegan.
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@oromagi
I have 2 thoughts.

First, you suggest there are vaccines which were not developed with fetal cells that might be used to satisfy those with a religious objection. However, unless we also discount vaccines which use fetal cells for testing or production, I submit we are not really providing a legitimate alternative. How many vaccines meet this limitation?

Secondly, we don't have a viable alternative currently. If one were available to meet the objectors demands, I would agree - give them what they want so we can keep qualified staff. In the absense of a valid alternative, the only option is to ask them to leave. We should not lower our standards of expertise in the name of keeping 'qualified' individuals. If they do not recognize best practices and/or take seriously their oath to 'do no harm' they are not qualified.
oromagi
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 unless we also discount vaccines which use fetal cells for testing or production, I submit we are not really providing a legitimate alternative.
I would think any vaccine that provokes an immune response is a legitimate alternative.  Almondmilk is a legitimate milk alternative for some recipes and preparations. We don't need to discount milk as legitimate or even a preferable ingredient in order to satisfy people who want less lactic acid in their diet or less animal product in their diet.

Secondly, we don't have a viable alternative currently.
Why aren't the vaccines I suggested viable alternatives?

If one were available to meet the objectors demands, I would agree - give them what they want so we can keep qualified staff.
I think the vaccines I suggested (as well as others) would meet the specific demand for no fetal cells.

In the absense of a valid alternative, the only option is to ask them to leave.
Why aren't the vaccines I suggested valid alternatives?

We should not lower our standards of expertise in the name of keeping 'qualified' individuals.
We escalated the use of a number of vaccines in the US last year without lowering "our standards of expertise."  I don't see why another micro-escalation would be inconsistent with good medical standards and practices.

If they do not recognize best practices and/or take seriously their oath to 'do no harm' they are not qualified.
Well, I agree.   I feel the same way about all Republicans who take an oath of Federal office but fail to condemn the Jan 6th sedition.  The problem with Republicans as with troglodyte nurses is that there's just to damn many of them to simply eject without causing additional harms and violating our own oaths and responsibilities.  Right now, we are about 1.2 million registered nurses short of present demand.  The oldest baby boomers are 75 so we are entering a 20 years period of record high healthcare demand at a time when nurses are quitting the profession in record numbers. 

So, even though I agree that rejection of the vaccine should be disqualifying for nurses, which is a kind of practicing scientist and should adhere to scientific ethics, I disagree that we are in the socio-political position to make such demands on nurses.  We should also consider and respect that the call to nursing is often deeply connected to a religious calling.  We need to pump a lot more money into training and compensating nurses and relatively cheap stopgaps like an alternative vaccine for religious exemptions are totally worth it if it keeps hundreds of thousands in a critically understaffed profession.  

Pandemics are famous for forcing ethical compromises and wise public policy knows when to stand pat and when to yield.  If I were a decision-maker staring at this particular problem, I would prioritize the retention of medical staff.



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@SkepticalOne
Interesting topic. Don't get me wrong, I oppose abortion, anyway, however, I accept your argument that denial use of fetal cells should not be considered a moral outrage since the abortion already occurred. However, I am troubled by the thought that might occur to some that such use excuses abortion since some good can potentially be had by virtue of the abortion. I oppose that justification as a reason to allow abortion.
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@oromagi
Why aren't the vaccines I suggested viable alternatives?
I asked if the vaccines you listed were completely free of fetal lines in - not just development, but also - testing and production. If fetal cells were used in no part of the process then they would be viable alternatives. I don't know if this is something you considered.

I disagree that we are in the socio-political position to make such demands on nurses.

Maybe - I don't have enough info to weigh in on that

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When you die there will be a bloke with a list. 
Coming in at  ( # 487. Vaccines )  

I am not sure if it is moral or immoral.
But one thing is for certain.  
If someone was administered these vacancies with the fetal cells. They will NOT be going to heaven FULL STOP

Good game.
Good game.