atheism is irrational

Author: n8nrgmi

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#211
Polytheist-Witch
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And you'll have to be more specific which God that I worship / work with you want to know the origin of because they're all different they all come from different places some of them are in different tribes completely different backgrounds

Just your own god will do for now. Tell me of its origins
Again I have posted about this you can figure out who they are if you've read my post and if you don't want to then don't but I'm not doing your work for you. Again I actively worship at least seven gods regularly. Then there are others that I only pay homage to at certain times of the year. Then there's at least 2 that I work with on a daily basis. If you can't be bothered to have read my post when I talked about it but you claim you do because you're not a bigot then you should know at least one or two names. And again depending on which one it is I may or may not have an origin story for you it all depends.
#212
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@n8nrgmi
Atheism is not irrational at all. It's a throw back in your face that this world isn't demons and angels; in a metaphorical type sense when it comes to one religion. There is always one religion trying to take over. If you ask me, a spiritually agnostic person, it's Thanos trying to take over. The interesting thing about that is that a lot of people connected with Thanos' take over... but for me, it's just not it. I'm a vampire that feeds on Thanos, he's my beeatch. You know. That's why Atheism is beautiful. It's the middle finger to your take-over. I don't think it has any more assertions than that, other than, you're not it. Especially in this world. If nothing is true, and it's only this world... all fantasy's are out the window... you MUST conform to the atheist view. I don't think it's only this world, but i respect the atheist's for telling me... it very well can be. They are at a different level, and that's always awesome. So, i would never call them irrational. They're hyper rational, which could work against them, but should also teach us they are a force to recon with. They are a power i recon with. To me at least, they're wrong "ultimately"... but they are not wrong in telling you that you're wrong... i love them for that. Bc honestly... how many religious people think heaven is becoming a vampire? Not many, but that's my heaven... and at least, atheists will acknowledge that i may be right... as much as they hate me for believing in that without evidence. The problem isn't the belief, it's the ultimatum, it's the ... you must be like me ... that atheists stand against... and i love that... how can't you??  

#213
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you're all the common place egotistic maniacs of this old if you think i should be like you.... i love that you hate me, and secretly, so do you. If no one hated you... where would you be??? no whwere, and you might be nowhere?... but love those that are pushing to be something. They will only transcend if they can ignore your hate. 
#214
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I hope it hurts your feelings... bc that's who i am. Someone different. But if you love who you are.. than stop preachin... be who you are. I accept that, why don't you?? Why don't you accept who you are even if i don't believe you? Just don't make who you are who i am... that's what the world wants. Be you, and i'll love that... but don't tell me i can't be the Joker, your enemy... you need me to be who i am. You're Batman... then, i'm the Joker... Love that!
#215
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There is so much more to what i'm saying... but all of that is moot. Bc what atheist's are saying is this is the only world... and that is beautiful. That is relevant. That is god. So you're nothing for going against them bc they are it... they are the truth to this world. Stop hating bc they will keep outplaying you in this reality. They will keep being right... even if demons exist... they at least can recognize it's not only your demons. The demons are infinite in meaning. That's why i love atheists... they will always tell me i'm wrong in framing... and that's beauitiful ... 
#216
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The only way to overcome an atheist is to tell them you're okay with being you... that is what Transends them. And they should learn from that. They are not void from learning. 
#217
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Now.. to go against you atheists... i hate you for not realizing i'm a vampire in your world. Don't forget i exist too... as logical as you want to be... you're right, but infinite is something insane, philosophically, i exist too... so drop your atheist hard headed ways. I am real. In the infinity i'm real too, so what does that mean? Love, but you're behind bc you are too focuses on this material world. I'm a vampire advocating for you... what does that mean??
#218
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Fck off people that don't think i transcend them... that's all i'm saying. What you become is what you become. Fck... i am me and that's rare... i hate that. But i still love atheists. Bc they are this reality. So welcome to this reality. That's what you have. 
#219
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They are what you are... but ultimately you are you. Respect is the easy part. Knowing there is more than one of you is the hard part.
#220
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@Polytheist-Witch
And you'll have to be more specific which God that I worship / work with you want to know the origin of because they're all different they all come from different places some of them are in different tribes completely different backgrounds

Just your own god will do for now. Tell me of its origins
Again I have posted about this you can figure out who they are if you've read my post and if you don't want to then don't
After all of your months of complaining that atheist do not really come here for serious discussions why is it that you yourself show a strong  reluctance to discuss your god/s and their origins, Witch?


but I'm not doing your work for you.

I am simply asking you from where your gods originate . 


Again I actively worship at least seven gods regularly.

Ok. You have offered that little bit of information, can simply tell me their origins? Do all of the gods that you worship, work for and pay homage to, all originate from the same place?


And again depending on which one it is I may or may not have an origin story for you it all depends.

Ok. Then can tell me the origins of those seven gods that you worship and that you do have an origin for?
  

And could you clear this up, I'm genuinely intrigued?
 I will though, draw the line at invisible bridges that span from a planet in the sky down to earth. That sounds too much like the biblical Jacobs ladder , Witch. 
Invisible? They see the bridge all the time. We call it the Northern Lights. 


What is the "bridge of light" used for?
Who uses it? 
Do your seven gods use it?





#221
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@Double_R
but even if he exists he is just as subjective a standard as any other you can point to.
How so?
#222
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@sadolite
You ever heard of the ten commandments  from the Christion religion. All religions have suggested limits on behavior. Atheism does not.
The Ten Commandments are nothing more than moral pronouncements, there is nothing about them that makes them objective. You can accept them or reject them.

If you accept them, why? Who made that decision?

#223
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@Tarik
Because term “objective standard” is just as incoherent as the term “married bachelor”. A standard is what everything else is judged against, but one has to choose which standard applies. That will always be subjective. The fact that many of us came into this world being told which standard to follow and therefore never had to make that choice ourselves doesn’t mean we are not still making the choice everyday to continue following it.
#224
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@Double_R
A standard is what everything else is judged against, but one has to choose which standard applies. That will always be subjective.
…Your begging the question, how does God’s choosing of a standard make that standard subjective?
#225
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@Tarik
Because such a standard is 'subject' to his choosing. Presumably there's more than one option for him to choose from, right?
#226
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@ludofl3x
Because such a standard is 'subject' to his choosing. 
That doesn’t mean the same thing as subjective. The weather is subject to change, that has nothing to do with anyones personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
#227
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@Tarik
OK, so how then does a god decide what's moral or immoral?
#228
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@ludofl3x
Through objectivity.
#229
Polytheist-Witch
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After all of your months of complaining that atheist do not really come here for serious discussions why is it that you yourself show a strong  reluctance to discuss your god/s and their origins, Witch?
I doubt your sincere as much as looking for ammunition. The Asa gods descend from Buri. The Jotun from Ymir and the Vanir don't have a full on story but some have parents. 

What is the "bridge of light" used for?
Who uses it? 
Do your seven gods use it?
To move from point to point. The Asa use it to move from their world to Midgard. Midgard layers Earth. The Asa ones do.
#230
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@Tarik
Because such a standard is 'subject' to his choosing. 
That doesn’t mean the same thing as subjective.
Yes, it absolutely does. Subjective means *subject to* the individual. In your question, it is subject to God.

OK, so how then does a god decide what's moral or immoral?
Through objectivity.
This answer is every bit as meaningless as it is incoherent.

Let’s try this… when God gives a moral command, does he command it because it is moral or is it moral because he commands it?
#231
Stephen
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@Polytheist-Witch
After all of your months of complaining that atheist do not really come here for serious discussions why is it that you yourself show a strong  reluctance to discuss your god/s and their origins, Witch?
The Asa gods descend from Buri.

Descend?  Will that  be in the `to come down from somewhere`, sense then? Or do you mean are descended from Búri who no one knows from where he originated only that; "Búri was licked free from salty rime stones by the primeval cow Auðumbla over the course of three days".


The Jotun from Ymir and the Vanir don't have a full on story but some have parents. 

Lets break that down a little. So you are saying that "the Jotun"  originate from "Ymir" ( a hermaphrodite giant). Are the Jotun a people or are they gods? If gods, where is their place of origin?


Vanir

Is this a place or a race of gods or men?  You see I want to know if these gods that you worship have a home and /or a place of origin and where it is?



What is the "bridge of light" used for?
Who uses it? 
Do your seven gods use it?
To move from point to point. The Asa use it to move from their world to Midgard.

Where do the Asa originate and are they also gods?


Midgard layers Earth. 

From what I have just read "Midgard" IS Earth.

In Germanic cosmology, Midgard (an anglicised form of Old Norse Miðgarðr [ˈmiðˌɡɑrðz̠]; Old English Middangeard, Old Saxon Middilgard, Old High German Mittilagart, and Gothic Midjun-gards; "middle yard", "middle enclosure") is the name for Earth (equivalent in meaning to the Greek term οἰκουμένη, "inhabited") inhabited by and known to humans in early Germanic cosmology. The Old Norse form plays a notable role in Norse cosmology.

If that is the case, then where are The Asa coming from? From where do they originate? 




I doubt your sincere as much as looking for ammunition.

Nope..  I want to be clear about where your gods originate. It is your gods origins and places of abode that are in dispute . Or had you forgotten that?

#232
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@Double_R
Subjective means *subject to* the individual. In your question, it is subject to God.
Even if I agreed to that definition God isn’t an individual He’s a deity.

Let’s try this… when God gives a moral command, does he command it because it is moral or is it moral because he commands it?
I don’t know ask God.

#233
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Descend?  Will that  be in the `to come down from somewhere`, sense then? Or do you mean are descended from Búri who no one knows from where he originated only that; "Búri was licked free from salty rime stones by the primeval cow Auðumbla over the course of three days
Descend as in Buri and Jord had sex and had children.

Lets break that down a little. So you are saying that "the Jotun"  originate from "Ymir" ( a hermaphrodite giant). Are the Jotun a people or are they gods? If gods, where is their place of origin?
The Jotun are a race. They spawned from Ymir's body. They of course took mates and had children. Isn't very difficult. Some of them are worshiped as gods.


Is this a place or a race of gods or men?  You see I want to know if these gods that you worship have a home and /or a place of origin and where it is?
The Vanir are a race that come from Vanaheim. Can't tell you anything other than that that's all the myth to say.

Based on talking to shaman I do not believe Midgard is Earth you can gain whatever knowledge you want from the myths on that take it as you will. 

I don't think you want to know crap cuz you can look up and read whatever you want to.
#234
sadolite
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@Double_R
"there is nothing about them that makes them objective". I all ready covered that in previous posts. I never said they were and also stated that any suggested rules of behavior would be considered subjective from any source.  Atheism has no written suggested rules of behavior for anyone to use as a guide. Religions do. That sums up what I said in previous posts. Pop culture determines what is right and wrong for the atheist. What is right today will be wrong tomorrow and vice versa. Some will agree with the changes and some wont. Popularity wins. This is a belief system just like religion. Let what's popular for the day determine what is right and wrong. Then tomorrow we will reassess what is right and wrong for that day based on popularity changes. I think this is called "evolving or becoming enlightened " by many.
#235
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@Tarik
Even if I agreed to that definition God isn’t an individual He’s a deity.
But you invoke him as if he were an individual. Please explain in what sense a deity differs from a person. Does he have thoughts? Desires? Does he make decisions? If the answer to the questions above is yes, then he is an individual in any coherent sense of the word. If not, then you have a lot of explaining to do and can start with where the Ten Commandments came from.

I don’t know ask God.
I’m asking you because it’s your claim. You’re the one who believes it, so you’re the one who should have an answer. If you are not even willing to engage in the thought of how to square this circle then you have no business telling anyone else anything about him.

#236
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@sadolite
You began by criticizing Atheism on its subjectivity regarding moral issues. If you admit that religion is just as subjective then what is your issue?

The fact that religions have rules written down on paper for all to follow is not a virtue. What would make you think it is? As far as I can tell you seem to take issue with the idea of having to think for yourself about issues of morality, and seem to believe that if we’re all told what to think then everything would be better. But there’s no evidence of that. The people who flew planes into the WTC believed in a god. People will always use their own moral systems to justify their natural inclinations. You brag about the Ten Commandments but the most common book you will find on death row is the Bible.

And no, pop culture is not how atheists determine right from wrong, that’s just plain stupid. Atheists overwhelmingly believe in humanism and secular morality, which is far more moral than the Bible.
#237
Tarik
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@Double_R
Please explain in what sense a deity differs from a person. 
Infinite knowledge and power, God has it and a regular person doesn’t.

I’m asking you because it’s your claim.
Except it’s not. I believe God gives moral commands that’s all, I said nothing of what came first between the chicken or the egg, and like I said above regular people like you and I don’t have infinite knowledge so you’re looking in the wrong place if you expect me to fill the gaps for you.
#238
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@Polytheist-Witch
Descend?  Will that  be in the `to come down from somewhere`, sense then? Or do you mean are descended from Búri who no one knows from where he originated only that; "Búri was licked free from salty rime stones by the primeval cow Auðumbla over the course of three days
Descend as in Buri and Jord had sex and had children.

Ok. So from  where did Burni and Jord originate?



Lets break that down a little. So you are saying that "the Jotun"  originate from "Ymir" ( a hermaphrodite giant). Are the Jotun a people or are they gods? If gods, where is their place of origin?
The Jotun are a race. They spawned from Ymir's body.

And from where did Ymir originate?





Is this a place or a race of gods or men?  You see I want to know if these gods that you worship have a home and /or a place of origin and where it is?
The Vanir are a race that come from Vanaheim.

Ok, and where is Vanaheim located? From what I have just read it is "one of nine worlds".


Can't tell you anything other than that that's all the myth to say.

So then you believe that everything you have told me is a myth?


I don't think you want to know crap cuz you can look up and read whatever you want to.

I am attempting to work out where the particular gods that you believe in came from and you haven't once attempted to tell me although you don't agree that  gods come from the sky, or do you not remember what you have disputed?

I said;
"Well if you have ever looked into the ancient phenomena, you would find immediately that  ALL religions speak of their so called "gods"  coming from the sky.   So I think they may "validate" each others religious beliefs of  the origins of their "gods" .

You then disputed this while, astoundingly, agreeing that  your own Norse gods came from a planet!!? :

saying:
"That is not true at all. In the Norse religion they come from a planet!".  #201

Here:

Stephen wrote: Well if you have ever looked into the ancient phenomena, you would find immediately that  ALL religions speak of their so called "gods"  coming from the sky.   So I think they may "validate" each others religious beliefs of  the origins of their "gods" .
That is not true at all. In the Norse religion they come from a planet. 

Stephen wrote: Would that planet be up in the sky or space  by any chance ,Witch?  #204

So let's go back to this, the first place that you mentioned:

Based on talking to shaman I do not believe Midgard is Earth 

Ok, so you don't agree that Midgard is Earth as per wikipedia, Midgard - Wikipedia........so where is this place called Midgard located? keeping in mind that you have said that there is a "bridge of light" (the Arora Boliaris) connecting  Earth to Midgard.#201


I don't think you want to know crap cuz 

Think what you want, it doesn't make it true , Witch.


You can look up and read whatever you want to.

But what is needed first is a starting point. And  you and your knowledge in this particular field  of Norse gods are that starting point. Do you not understand  that?  I have been looking at these gods only five minutes, where as,  I am going to assume, that  you have gone into the subject for  some years, haven't you?


#239
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The gods are beings that come from a planet that's not just the gods dropped out of the sky they're not the f****** Moon. And they don't travel here in spaceships because they're not freaking aliens other than the fact that they don't exist on Earth. It's not my fault that you think because something doesn't exist on Earth it's up in the sky the gods are accessed by the spirit world which exists everywhere not just in the f****** sky. Again this whole thing had nothing to do with you wanting to ask questions you just want me to say the gods come from the sky because they're not on Earth well some gods come from out of the ground you know the underworld have you ever heard of that place probably not because it's not in Christianity. Like I said everything is a freaking farce with you people there's no point discussing anything cuz all you want to be able to say is that God's come from the sky and I'm right and if I can get you to say they come from a planet and they come from the sky. Okay you win all the gods come from the sky now don't talk to me about it again cuz I have nothing more to say to you about it I've already conceded to you. Don't ask me questions if you know everything. I realize you think that theists are the dumbest people on the planet but it is a little more complicated than just gods are up in the sky. Just because you believe in ancient aliens doesn't mean every religion is  aliens you're as bad as a goddamn Evangelical which is what I say all the time atheist are evangelicals just for one less God than Christians. The rainbow bridge connect Asgard to Midgard not Midgard to Earth you're not even paying attention when I do say something so just go read the goddamn myths yourself.
#240
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@Tarik
I believe God gives moral commands that’s all, I said nothing of what came first between the chicken or the egg
I know, I’ve asked you twice now and gotten no answer. The fact that you are unwilling to even think about this question says quite a bit about you.

The question is called the euthyphro dilemma, and it’s called a dilemma for a reason; no matter which way you answer the question your conception of god falls apart. The reason it falls apart is because it is incoherent. The fact that it is incoherent should be enough to get you to stop believing in it or at the very least recognize that you have serious work to do to make it work. But everyone is different, you don’t have to care about being rational, logic and reason don’t have to mean anything to you, but at least accept that and stop trying to tell others how they should think when you are unwilling to think for yourself.