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@Stephen
Nothing in the Bible is fact it's myth you're the one stating that the Bible is an errant and therefore can't be interpreted anyway but yours.
WHY DID GOD FAIL TO TELL JESUS' MOTHER OF HER SON'S CRULE & VIOLENT DEMISE?
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There are so many demigods that are children of Zeus in Greek myth there's no way you can single out Hercules is the savior of man it's ridiculous. Not to mention Zeus is not a Creator God nor is he the king of all gods Zeus hated man and that's why he released Pandora's box on mankind look up the myth yourself.
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@BrotherDThomas
“opinion. Not a shred of evidence.
Ok, brainiac,
where did Stephen produce any evidence from the text that God did not tell Mary?
His argument is from silence. It is speculation based on a prejudiced premise.
The reason he asks questions in contexts like this is not because he asks questions of the text. The text obviously does not answer it because the text itself is running a different narrative to Stevie Blunder.
So his questions are not coming from the Bible says or even what it does not say - but rather from a set of narratives that exist in his mind. His immaterial mind - that proves that miracles exist - if he wishes to rely on logic and reason. But please don't try and ask Stephen if he gets that - we don't want to confuse him with the facts. LOLL!
Why would you block me, then fake my name in order to make it seem like you're responding to me?
How daft are you? And if you still want to respond to me, why block me?
I said,
Maybe God didn't read your memo making it a sin not to tell Mary what YOU think He should have.
Or maybe he did tell her and you just unreasonably expect everything God told Mary to be written down.
How is that "creating conflict"? Because it shows how poorly thought out your "Bible problem claim" is?
If you don't like people pointing out your dumb threads, stop making dumb threads. That shouldn't be rocket science.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Nothing in the Bible is fact it's myth you're the one stating that the Bible is an errant and therefore can't be interpreted anyway but yours.
That is my point, Witch. It can and does throw up many ideas and theories. And as far as it being MY interpretation that is the correct one, I have always admitted that I cannot prove my ideas and theories as to what the bible is saying. Unlike the Christian that like present their own interpretations as fact and have been doing so for over 2000 years.
So, when Jesus was on the cross, did you know he was given medicine to render him unconscious so he could be revived later. This is probably why he was pronounced dead at the scene so soon and didn't have his legs broken. I mean, what kind of friend would give a half dead thirsty man "vinager"?
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@ethang5
Why would you block me,
I haven't. Stop making shite up.
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@Tradesecret
where did Stephen produce any evidence from the text that God did not tell Mary?
Unlike YOU, bible dunce . I know perfectly well not to write anything into the bible that isn't there.
And also unlike you I do not ever present my thoughts , ideas and theories as fact.
And answer me this Reverend "Tradey", what kind of mother would go joyously bounding off in jubilation to tell her cousin that she was going to have a baby that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death?
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@ethang5
@Stephen
@Tradesecret
All hypothetical peeps.
Only the story tellers knew what they were on about.
I think that the thirteenth disciple Maggie Delaney, referred to hairy Mary the tart with a heart....Though her lover Ged preferred to keep it quiet....And her boyfriend dumb Joe never said a great deal.
And little Josh went a bit wild and got into all sorts of trouble with the authorities....Something to do with broken homes and deception.
Well....That's how I interpret things.
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@Stephen
And answer me this Reverend "Tradey", what kind of mother would go joyously bounding off in jubilation to tell her cousin that she was going to have a baby that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death?
The sort of Mother who trusts in God, his messiah, and who understands the resurrection.
A little bit like Abraham and his son Isaac as he marched up the hill as his mother watched on trusting and believing in God.
And guess what? In both situations - resurrection was achieved. the first metaphorically, the second literally.
Don't forget that even the Jesus, the giver of life and the Resurrection wept when Lazarus died, even though he knew he was going to raise him from the dead.
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@zedvictor4
All hypothetical peeps.Only the story tellers knew what they were on about.I think that the thirteenth disciple Maggie Delaney, referred to hairy Mary the tart with a heart....Though her lover Ged preferred to keep it quiet....And her boyfriend dumb Joe never said a great deal.And little Josh got into all sorts of trouble with the authorities....Something to do with deceptionWell....That's how I interpret things.
Well good for you. I interpret your words to mean that you agree with me and disagree with Stephen. When interpretations are as subjective as you think - then what else are we going to think?
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@Tradesecret
And answer me this Reverend "Tradey", what kind of mother would go joyously bounding off in jubilation to tell her cousin that she was going to have a baby that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death?The sort of Mother who trusts in God.
Show me where in the bible that Mary once says she trusted in god?
Resurrection wept when Lazarus died,
Yet didn't shed a tear when John the baptist his cousin and the" greatest prophet that ever lived" was supposed to have been murdered by Herod.
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@zedvictor4
All hypothetical peeps.Only the story tellers knew what they were on about.
Of course, Vic lad.
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@Stephen
And answer me this Reverend "Tradey", what kind of mother would go joyously bounding off in jubilation to tell her cousin that she was going to have a baby that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death?The sort of Mother who trusts in God.Show me where in the bible that Mary once says she trusted in god?
I don't need to. You have ASSERTED based on an argument from silence. It would be silly to try and actually produce any evidence - since it is your assertion - the burden of proof is on your head. I can simply assert in any responses against your assertions. Until you start producing evidence - you are merely commenting on something which is not relevant to the narrative. Of course you can try and make it about the narrative- but that would require positive evidence wouldn't? And we both know - you ain't got none.
Resurrection wept when Lazarus died,Yet didn't shed a tear when John the baptist his cousin and the" greatest prophet that ever lived" was supposed to have been murdered by Herod.
Oh really. And where is your evidence for such a nonsensical assertion. Really Stevie Blunder, yet another blanket statement without a shred of evidence. Not difficult to see why you flunked at school - you uneducated and unqualified flunkie.
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@Stephen
Jesus was never on the cross or given anything since we can't even prove he lived .
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@Tradesecret
All hypothetical.
I think all three of us are in agreement then.
Good.
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@zedvictor4
All hypothetical.I think all three of us are in agreement then.Good.
Which three is that? You, Stephen, and Brother? Did you forget dimtim?
I think that if you are simply going to interpret whatever you like in a subjective manner, then you are not after the truth. That is a matter for you - but it also means that your comments won't very often be relevant or on point. That is your prerogative. We all have the right to be dumb. I won't take that away from you. If you do however want to engage in the topic, I will be happy to discuss it with you.
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@Tradesecret
Well you said that we were in agreement.
And Stephen also agreed.
So that makes three.
See above.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Jesus was never on the cross or given anything since we can't even prove he lived .
Well done Witch. If Jesus never existed then the this consigns the who bible to the trash, doesn't it? Or is this you Christians bashing?
But there are a quite a few million Christian that won't agree with you.
Why would you block me,
I haven't. Stop making shite up.
You are a shameless liar.
You can lie publicly because you know your none of your protector mods will volunteer the truth that you did blocked me.
I don't care one way or the other, just be consistent and stop lying.
It doesn't even matter if the story itself is fiction or fact. We can still evaluate the logic within the narrative of the story.
We do this with fictional movies all the time. Whether the story is true or not, assuming something didn't happen because the story is silent about it is stupidity.
Even the Bible observes that if everything about Jesus was to be written down, no book could contain it. Almost all Stephen's arguments are illogical silliness like this. ( If dragons are not real why didn't God tell us so?)
And because of the knee-jerk character of atheists, the thread soon turns to whether God/Jesus exists rather than the internal coherence of the narrative.
But Stephen is wrong. Mary did know because the Bible tells us in multiple ways.
1. There is no reason to pretend God didn't tell Mary.
2. There is no reason to assume God should have told Mary.
3. Jesus had many interactions with Mary indicating she knew His mission.
4. Jesus read from passages in the OT that fortold His sacrificial death and His resurrection. Mary knew these passages.
Stephen knows all these things, but prefers to lie for the pleasure of atheists here who don't know the Bible well enough to know he's lying, and don't care anyway due to their anti-god bias.
There, I've "disrupted" another of his lame threads.
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@Tradesecret
Stephen wrote: And answer me this Reverend "Tradey", what kind of mother would go joyously bounding off in jubilation to tell her cousin that she was going to have a baby that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death?The sort of Mother who trusts in God.Stephen wrote; Show me where in the bible that Mary once says she trusted in god?I don't need to.Stephen wrote; So you cannot what is only your belief.Resurrection wept when Lazarus died,Stephen wrote: Yet didn't shed a tear when John the baptist his cousin and the" greatest prophet that ever lived" was supposed to have been murdered by Herod.Oh really. And where is your evidence for such a nonsensical assertion.
Then simply show us where in the WHOLE of the bible it is that Jesus wept over the death of John the baptist. You assert and claim many things and present them as biblical fact without a single shred of biblical evidence often.
Didn't you once claim that there was "clear biblical evidence" that Jesus was anointed king by John the Baptist? I actually agreed with you but I said outright that couldn't prove it. And you couldn't produce the "very clear biblical evidence" when I asked you to , either! And it wouldn't have been the first time that you claim that there is "very clear evidence" in the bible for one thing or another when there simply isn't.
The facts are that WE DON’T KNOW!!! this is why I have said all along that these gospels are vague and anomalous, enigmatic, dubious and packed with half told stories.
And this is why people like you believe that you can take literary license to add, extract, interpret and misinterpret, expunge and sometimes deliberately lie at will when it comes to scripture.
How many times does it take before anything ever sinks in to that thick dense skull of yours ?
I have admitted many times that I cannot prove my own thoughts , ideas or theories concerning these unreliable scriptures.
I believe Jesus and or members of his followers had a hand in the murder of John the baptist, but I cannot prove it. I believe Jesus and John were rivals from day one, but I cannot prove it no more than you can prove god or Jesus actually exists or existed.
What I have proved over many months is that you are the most bible ignorant cretin of a Pastor and Chaplain to have ever have crossed my path.
Get well soon Reverend.
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@ethang5
Stephen knows all these things, but prefers to lie
It is not often that you are right ethang5 , but you are wrong AGAIN!!!
Yeah, and your reasons why I'm wrong, and what I'm wrong about are clearly spelled out. Thanks.
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@FLRW
When they banned you this place was like South Park without Cartman.OMG, is Wylted's first name Kenny?
Do you mean Eric? Although I guess Wylted did have a Kenny-like tendency to get banned and then come back.
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@Stephen
this sort of post is unwelcome here. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6729-atheists-are-no-longer-welcome-here
I'm going to request that you refrain from it in the future as Dart's president elect as well as religion forum tzar
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@Barney
this thread is not welcome here due to the orders of the new religion forum tzar https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6729-atheists-are-no-longer-welcome-here
You are commanded to go down these threads and move them to the philosophy section.
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@Stephen
Then simply show us where in the WHOLE of the bible it is that Jesus wept over the death of John the baptist. You assert and claim many things and present them as biblical fact without a single shred of biblical evidence often.
Keep asking and you will get the same answer. It is your thread and your assertions. It is up to you to prove your case. You have argued from silence and therefore I am entitled to argue from silence as well. You are incorrect about God and Mary. Let alone your comments about Jesus. LOL!
Didn't you once claim that there was "clear biblical evidence" that Jesus was anointed king by John the Baptist? I actually agreed with you but I said outright that couldn't prove it. And you couldn't produce the "very clear biblical evidence" when I asked you to , either! And it wouldn't have been the first time that you claim that there is "very clear evidence" in the bible for one thing or another when there simply isn't.
Whatever I have said on another thread is irrelevant to this one. But you changing the topic is only diverting from the fact that you have once again argued from silence. Making an assertion. Without a shred of evidence.
The facts are that WE DON’T KNOW!!! this is why I have said all along that these gospels are vague and anomalous, enigmatic, dubious and packed with half told stories.
No. The Fact is you don't know. That is quite different. But repeating your mantra does not change the facts.
And this is why people like you believe that you can take literary license to add, extract, interpret and misinterpret, expunge and sometimes deliberately lie at will when it comes to scripture.
You don't know anything about me. I don't use anything but the tools I have been equipped with - the scientific method in language skills. If you think that is arbitrary then that is your problem. I expect you do think the scientific method is unacceptable. You, after all, are uneducated and have no qualifications to speak anything but your own opinion. Which by and large is not comparable with any scholars of any note.
How many times does it take before anything ever sinks in to that thick dense skull of yours ?
I don't lie. It is you who is the fraud. Not me. You don't know whether you are an atheist or a theist. If I am thick, Stevie Blunder, what does that make you? LOL! I would prefer to be me any day of the week that an uneducated and stupid and unqualified person such as you.
I have admitted many times that I cannot prove my own thoughts , ideas or theories concerning these unreliable scriptures.
You certainly have demonstrated that many times. In fact - I cannot actually think of any occasion in which you have provided evidence for anything.
I believe Jesus and or members of his followers had a hand in the murder of John the baptist, but I cannot prove it. I believe Jesus and John were rivals from day one, but I cannot prove it no more than you can prove god or Jesus actually exists or existed.
No one really cares what you "believe". Proving such a lie is never going to happen. Not just because you cannot prove it - but because it is pure speculation and nonsense. You do understand the word "fanciful" don't you? Proving God has never been the problem, it is persuasion which is the issue.
What I have proved over many months is that you are the most bible ignorant cretin of a Pastor and Chaplain to have ever have crossed my path.
Uh no. Not even once. But you have repeated the truth that I am a pastor, a lawyer, a chaplain - someone who is educated, qualified, and gets paid for being so. Unlike you, who is uneducated, unqualified and whose opinion is well, for want of a better word, irrelevant for anyone who might care. I take it as a grain of salt what you say about me. It really worries me not.
But once again you cannot even keep to your own thread. We are still waiting for you to substantiate anything. Please begin.
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@Tradesecret
Then simply show us where in the WHOLE of the bible it is that Jesus wept over the death of John the baptist. You assert and claim many things and present them as biblical fact without a single shred of biblical evidence often.Keep asking and you will get the same answer.
But you haven't answered anything you clown, unless I am to take your silence as some kind of an answer.
Interesting that you claim on the one hand that I cannot produce biblical evidence for god not informing Mary of her son's tortuous demise and on the other claim the god did inform Mary of her sons demise yet produce no evidence for your claim.
Yet the bibles silence on the matter is proof to me that no such conversation had taken place.
I have admitted many times that I cannot prove my own thoughts , ideas or theories concerning these unreliable scriptures.You certainly have demonstrated that many times.
As have you.
Now again, where is the biblical "clear evidence that John the baptist anointed Jesus king".
No one really cares what you "believe".
And that is their prerogative.
You don't know anything about me.
You mean I don't know you personally except for all of the bragging about all of your theological credentials that you offered all over the WWW and on this forum in particular as if this affords you some-kind of status over all other members here.
I have told you before, what you believe about me is irrelevant to me and my own threads.
We are still waiting for you to substantiate anything.
Such as?
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@Stephen
But you haven't answered anything you clown, unless I am to take your silence as some kind of an answer.Interesting that you claim on the one hand that I cannot produce biblical evidence for god not informing Mary of her son's tortuous demise and on the other claim the god did inform Mary of her sons demise yet produce no evidence for your claim.Yet the bibles silence on the matter is proof to me that no such conversation had taken place.
Stevie, I have answered on several occasions now. I don't have to respond to your assertions with anything but another assertion. That is all that is required and all that is appropriate. I don't have to produce anything to substantiate anything. The narratives speak for themselves. Your question however is not compatible with the narratives and as such is an invention of your mind. The bible's silence in respect to your opinion is what matters.
As have you.Now again, where is the biblical "clear evidence that John the baptist anointed Jesus king".
Ha ha! You keep trying don't you. What part of - don't change the subject are you having trouble with Stephen? This thread is about God and Mary - and we are waiting for your evidence. Although I won't hold my breath.
No one really cares what you "believe".And that is their prerogative.
yep.
You don't know anything about me.You mean I don't know you personally except for all of the bragging about all of your theological credentials that you offered all over the WWW and on this forum in particular as if this affords you some-kind of status over all other members here.
I have not bragged once. You have done enough for both of us. Mentioning my background is an appropriate thing to do. It is not bragging per se. Although I know it hurts your feelings since you are uneducated and have no qualifications. Anyone mentioning anything is equivalent to bragging in your eyes. I don't think it gives me any status - although it does mean that I probably do have some runs on the board.
I have told you before, what you believe about me is irrelevant to me and my own threads.
And yet you take it as a personal insult when people call you stupid. LOL!
We are still waiting for you to substantiate anything.
Such as?
Such as where God failed to tell Mary that Jesus was going to die a cruel and violent death?
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@Tradesecret
Such as?Such as where God failed to tell Mary that Jesus was going to die a cruel and violent death?
Well can you show where he did? No you fkn can't can you, you pompous penis. It is absent from the scripture just as you claims that John the baptist anointed Jesus king.
You want it all fkn ways. and I won't let you . Where in the bible is "clear evidence that John the baptist anointed Jesus king".? It doesn't say so, does it you bellend!