Should the age of consent be lowered?

Author: TheUnderdog

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@Polytheist-Witch
We should totally let 14-year-olds be considered legal adults and have their own jobs and apartments screw school learning anything just let him go get their own place and have sex all they want to that's a perfect idea because they're totally prepared for everything that life has to throw at them at 14.
A 14 year-old may be considered as an "adult" through legal emancipation. I don't know what school/learning has to do with anything, and they can already have all the sex they want with those who are their own age. So what is your point?

At least the girls cuz that's who everybody keeps talking about how the girls should be able to decide to f*** a 30 year old man if they want to.
You're the one who focused on "girls"; hence, I made sure to quote "she" in my previous response.
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@dfss9788
There is less opportunity to take advantage of someone who is fully mentally equipped.
Why does this happen at 18? Why in some states, 17? Or the majority of states, 16? Is there something regional that effects how "mentally equip" one is? Or perhaps, these statutory divisions are arbitrary and reflect nothing more than the prejudices of the State and the electorate who sanctions it?

14 year olds... their brains aren't finished cooking yet, at least not until they're 18 AFAIK.
The brain doesn't fully develop until one is 25/26 years-old. Why is the age of consent not 25 or 26? Would you endorse an age-based restriction at the age of 25/26? Why or why not?

Retarded people and the elderly having cognitive decline come to mind. On the other end of the age spectrum we have stupid old farts who have zero sexual capital but tons of money. Scamming old people is a cottage industry these days, and we have plenty of elder abuse laws on the books to protect them from that.
So I ask: why is consent qualified by age--particularly between the age of majority and the age of minority?

Well, a 14 year old usually is dependent on his parents and subject to their oversight. He can be controlled by them. A 25 year old usually is independent and is not subject to parental oversight. 
So the age of consent allows the State and/or parent to exploit the minor's dependence in order to control them and their sexual prospects? And this is "protecting" them? At what point are the interests of the minor over his or her body considered?

Well, you seemed to ask why data and studies would be relevant IIRC. Yes, that question did go unanswered. Suffice to say there exists relevant evidence. Data and studies are usually the type of evidence that I find to be most compelling for policy making issues. Getting in to a discussion over which sort of evidence is relevant isn't really necessary we haven't really looked at any.
What can the evidence reveal or inform that supersedes the interests of the minor over his or her own body, particularly in how he or she behaves it? If a study suggested that those who were 40 and under didn't bear the mental capacity to have sex, you're willing to sanction policy that would prohibit those 40 and under from having sex?


Mesmer
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The human brain hasn't fully developed until roughly the age of 25. What this means is that until the age of 25, humans are less capable of making big, life-changing decisions due to the underdevelopment of the prefrontal cortex At What Age Is The Brain Fully Developed? - Mental Health Daily. Ideally, if that was the only factor involved, humans should not be able to get married, have sex, drink alcohol, have political opinions, choose to go to college, enlist in the military etc. before that age. Also, the extra 7-12 years worth of life experience will further help make these decisions. I wrote an OP detailing how bad teenaged parents are for children (looking purely at outcomes): Children should be born into wedlock with their biological, adult parents (debateart.com) .

However, we also need to factor in the fact that young bodies have an advantage over their 25 year old counterparts. For giving birth to children, as women age they become more likely to have genetically unhealthy children https://youtu.be/4kfcsOhgzRA?t=550 . For men, they have the highest (natural) testosterone levels around the ages of 17-20 -- this is roughly where they are most virile testosterone levels in men by age - Bing images . So, purely for breeding purposes, it would be best if men and women of ages 17-20 could produce their children then.

Therefore, we have these opposing forces for age of consent: (1) societal factors wanting you to be far older to produce children (25+), and (2) the human body reaching breeding potential around the ages of 17-20 (probably lower for girls and higher for boys). Thus, the game here is to balance this out. If you set the age of consent too low, you'll have people having sex who don't understand the implications of it at all. If you set the age of consent too high, you'll miss out on the years the human body is at its reproductive best.

Nowhere in this calculation can it be concluded that 13 years old is a good idea for the age of consent -- the lack of physical maturation and mental maturation means you're getting the worst of both worlds. If you take it up to 16 (which is the case for some countries), you're basically at the physical maturation for girls (almost for boys), but the mental side will be horribly lacking (read my teenage parents OP). If you take it up to 20 years, you're on the back-end of the physical maturation and you're capturing more of the mental maturity -- this is where I'd like to see age of consent at.

If we set the age of consent to 20, we also lower the amount of useless sex before people can get married and have children (sex lowers people's ability to pairbond, and pairbonding is essential for a stable child-rearing unit) stable marriage rate as per teachman - Bing images . This will also mean that people will, on average, be having more responsible sex, thus lowering the chances of STDs spreading. We also help to avoid of the exploitative setups wherein older people have relationships with teenagers (think 30 year old dating 16 year olds).

Not only should we reject the age of consent being lowered (especially to 13), but I think it should be raised to 20.
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@Wylted
why has the debate been overwemingly about lowering the age of consent and not raising the age?
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@Mesmer
The human brain hasn't fully developed until roughly the age of 25. What this means is that until the age of 25, humans are less capable of making big, life-changing decisions due to the underdevelopment of the prefrontal cortex At What Age Is The Brain Fully Developed? - Mental Health Daily. Ideally, if that was the only factor involved, humans should not be able to get married, have sex, drink alcohol, have political opinions, choose to go to college, enlist in the military etc. before that age. Also, the extra 7-12 years worth of life experience will further help make these decisions. I wrote an OP detailing how bad teenaged parents are for children (looking purely at outcomes): Children should be born into wedlock with their biological, adult parents (debateart.com) .

However, we also need to factor in the fact that young bodies have an advantage over their 25 year old counterparts. For giving birth to children, as women age they become more likely to have genetically unhealthy children https://youtu.be/4kfcsOhgzRA?t=550 . For men, they have the highest (natural) testosterone levels around the ages of 17-20 -- this is roughly where they are most virile testosterone levels in men by age - Bing images . So, purely for breeding purposes, it would be best if men and women of ages 17-20 could produce their children then.

Therefore, we have these opposing forces for age of consent: (1) societal factors wanting you to be far older to produce children (25+), and (2) the human body reaching breeding potential around the ages of 17-20 (probably lower for girls and higher for boys). Thus, the game here is to balance this out. If you set the age of consent too low, you'll have people having sex who don't understand the implications of it at all. If you set the age of consent too high, you'll miss out on the years the human body is at its reproductive best.

Nowhere in this calculation can it be concluded that 13 years old is a good idea for the age of consent -- the lack of physical maturation and mental maturation means you're getting the worst of both worlds. If you take it up to 16 (which is the case for some countries), you're basically at the physical maturation for girls (almost for boys), but the mental side will be horribly lacking (read my teenage parents OP). If you take it up to 20 years, you're on the back-end of the physical maturation and you're capturing more of the mental maturity -- this is where I'd like to see age of consent at.

If we set the age of consent to 20, we also lower the amount of useless sex before people can get married and have children (sex lowers people's ability to pairbond, and pairbonding is essential for a stable child-rearing unit) stable marriage rate as per teachman - Bing images . This will also mean that people will, on average, be having more responsible sex, thus lowering the chances of STDs spreading. We also help to avoid of the exploitative setups wherein older people have relationships with teenagers (think 30 year old dating 16 year olds).

Not only should we reject the age of consent being lowered (especially to 13), but I think it should be raised to 20.
None of this matters because the only considerations--"capable" or not--that should be made as it concerns one's own body is by the very person him or herself.

Mesmer
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None of this matters because the only considerations--"capable" or not--that should be made as it concerns one's own body is by the very person him or herself.
That's a wild claim that's going to lead to some wickedly dark conclusions.

So if a 9 year old (entered puberty early) is "capable" of having sex, they should be able to have it? You want 9 year olds and 30 year olds having sex? You want two 9 year olds having sex? How does it not register in your brain that this is an appalling standard to have, with all the power imbalances involved with children and adults having sex, the issue with 9 year olds giving birth to children, the cognitive inability to understand the consequences of sex, how two 9 year olds are going to pay for a child etc.

Or would you wind it back even further and say that people *before* puberty are "capable" of having sex, therefore that's fine? Nothing wrong with 3 year olds having sex?

That's actually thoroughly disgusting, dangerously wrong and you're a pedophile. 
Mesmer
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you are blocked and a danger to society
I don't agree with blocking people like that, but good grief is he a danger to society.

Convicted pedophiles need the death penalty.
Mesmer
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The age of consent should be eliminated entirely. The government has no prerogative--other than its self-imposed "legal" one--to dictate when and how one can behave one's own body.  Athias -- Should the age of consent be lowered? (debateart.com)
This Athias guy is implicitly arguing there is nothing wrong with pedophilia.

This guy has to be a pedophile.
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@Dr.Franklin
why has the debate been overwemingly about lowering the age of consent and not raising the age?
Because 18 is old enough for you to die for your country, the least they can do is let 18 year olds fuck me
Athias
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@Mesmer
That's a wild claim that's going to lead to some wickedly dark conclusions.
It doesn't change that your entire statement is irrelevant.

So if a 9 year old (entered puberty early) is "capable" of having sex, they should be able to have it?
Yes.

You want 9 year olds and 30 year olds having sex?
No.

You want two 9 year olds having sex?
No.

My "want" however is irrelevant.

How does it not register in your brain that this is an appalling standard to have
You have no idea what "registers" in my brain.

with all the power imbalances involved with children and adults having sex
"Power imbalances" are present in everything children and adults do. If "power balance" informed "predation" then no parent in the age of majority would be a fit custodian.

the issue with 9 year olds giving birth to children,
All of which could be regulated by the child's custodian.

the cognitive inability to understand the consequences of sex,
If a nine year-old can attend a university, then I'm fairly willing to bet that he or she can appreciate the consequences of sex; a minor who knows to avoid touching fire can appreciate the consequences of sex.

how two 9 year olds are going to pay for a child etc.

Or would you wind it back even further and say that people *before* puberty are "capable" of having sex, therefore that's fine? Nothing wrong with 3 year olds having sex?
Why create the division just there? What about zygotes? Fetuses? Obviously you can't see past your own prejudice to appreciate the argument I've made in favor of an individual's bodily autonomy, but instead attempt to pigeonhole said argument to sex with infants. So I'll simply respond with this: parents/custodians can regulate their infants sexual prospects without coercing it.

That's actually thoroughly disgusting, dangerously wrong and you're a pedophile. 
Naturally. I mean, I must be, right?  I must also be gay when I argue that homosexuals bear discretion over whom they choose to engage coitus. I must also be covered with tattoos, despite my utter disgust of them, because I wouldn't stand behind any statutory penalty for marking up one's skin. I'm also a pot-smoking alcoholic, as well, despite my not having a single alcoholic drink or a smoke in almost 15 years.

I don't agree with blocking people like that, but good grief is he a danger to society.
You only compliment me when you describe me as a danger to your conception of society. I welcome it.

Convicted pedophiles need the death penalty.
I'm a convicted pedophile now? Well, better start informing my neighbors as Megan's Law requires. Oooh, Megan? I wonder if she's young enough.

This Athias guy is implicitly arguing there is nothing wrong with pedophilia.
Is that what I argued? Quote me verbatim.

This guy has to be a pedophile.
We've already acknowledge your indisputable logic: arguing in favor of removing criminal penalty = engaging the act that's criminalized.
Mesmer
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@Athias
That's a wild claim that's going to lead to some wickedly dark conclusions.
It doesn't change that your entire statement is irrelevant.
You've failed to prove this.

So if a 9 year old (entered puberty early) is "capable" of having sex, they should be able to have it?
Yes.

You want 9 year olds and 30 year olds having sex?
No.

You want two 9 year olds having sex?
No.

My "want" however is irrelevant.
No, actually. Your want is completely relevant to this because we legally mandate what is consider "consent" through what we want, and yes I'm arguing that we should legally mandate the notion of consent in regardless to sexual intercourse.

When society doesn't want 9 year olds having sex, that's because there are grave implications that result from it (children, costs, power imbalances etc.) You failing to not want that is completely relevant to the grave implications that result from that.

Also, the fact that you think 9 year olds should be having sex makes you a pedophile.

You have no idea what "registers" in my brain.
You are incorrect because you write words which reflect what registers in your brain. Therefore, I do have an idea.

"Power imbalances" are present in everything children and adults do. If "power balance" informed "predation" then no parent in the age of majority would be a fit custodian.
Power imbalances in consent are the problem, pedophile.

For example, if a custodial guardian says to his 10 year old child 'have sex with me or you don't get fed', that is clearly an exploitation of the power imbalance rendering the child unable to give true consent.

Yes, the same can happen in instances outside of sex, hence why child protection agencies exist. But there is *always* a problem in regards to underaged sex because the children involved are unable to comprehend the implications, are at serious risk of being exploited, and are unable to deal with the real world implications of sex. That's the point.

the issue with 9 year olds giving birth to children,
All of which could be regulated by the child's custodian.
I'm arguing that we shouldn't have this result in the first place, so I'm not going to open this can of worms because society should be looking to avoid this at a lot of cost.

the cognitive inability to understand the consequences of sex,
If a nine year-old can attend a university, then I'm fairly willing to bet that he or she can appreciate the consequences of sex; a minor who knows to avoid touching fire can appreciate the consequences of sex.
how two 9 year olds are going to pay for a child etc.
Having general intelligence/being famous is different to having the emotional understanding of the implications involving sex. Even with your extreme examples, children aren't emotionally equipped to deal with the blow out involved with having sex. That's the point that you routinely miss because you are a legitimate pedophile.

Why create the division just there? What about zygotes? Fetuses? Obviously you can't see past your own prejudice to appreciate the argument I've made in favor of an individual's bodily autonomy, but instead attempt to pigeonhole said argument to sex with infants. So I'll simply respond with this: parents/custodians can regulate their infants sexual prospects without coercing it.
Zygotes and fetuses can't have sex, you stupid pedophile.

You're treating 3 year olds as if they're adults with the "individual's bodily autonomy". I've got no problem if you want to talk about adults like that, but you think there is no difference between 3 year olds and adults having sex. Three year olds don't understand the implications of sex, let alone anything in the adult world. All they know is that they want to play and learn about things they see in their lives.

Naturally. I mean, I must be, right?  I must also be gay when I argue that homosexuals bear discretion over whom they choose to engage coitus. I must also be covered with tattoos, despite my utter disgust of them, because I wouldn't stand behind any statutory penalty for marking up one's skin. I'm also a pot-smoking alcoholic, as well, despite my not having a single alcoholic drink or a smoke in almost 15 years.
I haven't argued any of this.

I have argued that you are a pedophile and your illogical reasoning is harmful to society, and when you say things like "The age of consent should be eliminated entirely", and that you're okay with 3 year olds having sex, you do a better job at proving both those things than I do.

I don't agree with blocking people like that, but good grief is he a danger to society.
You only compliment me when you describe me as a danger to your conception of society. I welcome it.
I don't think you realize how unacceptable what you are saying is. You are fully advocating pedophilia. There are strict, unforgiving laws against it all throughout the world that should be enough to prevent you from engaging in pedophilia, not to mention the extremely damaging abuse children suffer at the hands of pedophiles. This is nothing to be owning or embracing -- you are as bad for society as terrorists and serial killers.

You need to be rectified before you cause serious harm to a child, if you haven't already.

Convicted pedophiles need the death penalty.
I'm a convicted pedophile now? Well, better start informing my neighbors as Megan's Law requires. Oooh, Megan? I wonder if she's young enough.
No.

I never called you a convicted pedophile.

I called you a pedophile. I hope that if you ever get convicted of pedophilia, you are killed for your inhuman crime.

This Athias guy is implicitly arguing there is nothing wrong with pedophilia.
Is that what I argued? Quote me verbatim.
Everything you write points in this direction. The most damning quote is this: "The age of consent should be eliminated entirely".

You are a pedophile, Athias.

We've already acknowledge your indisputable logic: arguing in favor of removing criminal penalty = engaging the act that's criminalized.
That isn't how I came to the conclusion that you're a pedophile.

I've argued that because you don't see anything wrong with 3 year olds or 9 year olds having sex, you are a pedophile. To you, there is no difference between an adult and a 3 year old having sex. That is an essential belief of a pedophile, one of which you hold.

You are a pedophile.
Athias
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@Mesmer
You've failed to prove this.
Your statement itself is proof enough of its irrelevance.

Your want is completely relevant to this because we legally mandate what is consider "consent" through what we want,
I'm fairly aware of how you and those of your ilk operate; but within the moral framework that is present within every argument I submit with respect to subjects like these, my "want" is irrelevant.

and yes I'm arguing that we should legally mandate the notion of consent in regardless to sexual intercourse.
Don't know what this means.

When society doesn't want 9 year olds having sex, that's because there are grave implications that result from it (children, costs, power imbalances etc.) You failing to not want that is completely relevant to the grave implications that result from that.
Implications you've yet to define, and consequences of "power imbalances" you have yet to mention and/or substantiate. Furthermore, you've imputed a non sequitur. Once again, my "want" is irrelevant.

Also, the fact that you think 9 year olds should be having sex makes you a pedophile.
No. What would make one a pedophile is one's attraction and/or one's engagement in sexual contact with a minor 10 years old and younger. Suffices to state, that I do not meet this description; hence, I'm no pedophile. But your characterization isn't based on any evidentiary rigor or logical extension of the arguments' premises. That would actually require you to stop emoting.

You are incorrect because you write words which reflect what registers in your brain. Therefore, I do have an idea.
No, you don't. You have impressions which reflect what's in your brain, not mine.

Power imbalances in consent are the problem, pedophile.
Power imbalances you have yet to substantiate.

For example, if a custodial guardian says to his 10 year old child 'have sex with me or you don't get fed', that is clearly an exploitation of the power imbalance rendering the child unable to give true consent.
And if a 25 year-old tells a 23 year-old vagrant to "have sex with me or you don't get fed," would that not be consistent with the very rationale your argument exhibits above? What if I went into a poor district in my city and offered sandwiches to the homeless and starving in exchange for fellatio, would that not be exploiting their dependence? Your rationale is ridiculously inconsistent.

But there is *always* a problem in regards to underaged sex because the children involved are unable to comprehend the implications, are at serious risk of being exploited, and are unable to deal with the real world implications of sex. That's the point.
All this mention of "real world" implications and little substantiation. It's all just fluff.

I'm arguing that we shouldn't have this result in the first place, so I'm not going to open this can of worms because society should be looking to avoid this at a lot of cost.
But this result is not in your control.

Having general intelligence/being famous is different to having the emotional understanding of the implications involving sex.
The criterion for which you've neither explained nor substantiated. More fluff.

Even with your extreme examples, children aren't emotionally equipped to deal with the blow out involved with having sex.
The blow out involved with having sex? Such as...

Zygotes and fetuses can't have sex, you stupid pedophile.
Oh, so you do know that? It's a relief to see your arbitrary divisions stop somewhere.

You're treating 3 year olds as if they're adults with the "individual's bodily autonomy". I've got no problem if you want to talk about adults like that, but you think there is no difference between 3 year olds and adults having sex.
Who cares about that with which"you" have a problem? We're not discussing your emotions. I view minors as individuals because that's what they are. And as such, they are afforded the same discretion as any other individual.

Three year olds don't understand the implications of sex, let alone anything in the adult world. All they know is that they want to play and learn about things they see in their lives.
More fluff.

I haven't argued any of this.
You didn't have to; your line of reasoning did. You see: arguments have premises which are extended either to a logical or illogical conclusion. Arguments also operate on a line of reasoning, or rationale. So while you did not state any of the aforementioned, your line of reasoning when sustained would extend the aforementioned premises to the same conclusions. And I made mention of homosexuality, tattoos, drug-use, and alcoholism to "analogize" the extension of this reasoning, and demonstrate how asinine it is.

I have argued that you are a pedophile
With asinine reasoning...

and your illogical reasoning is harmful to society
Why would I take cues on "logic" from someone whose arguments have yet to demonstrate any?

and when you say things like "The age of consent should be eliminated entirely"
Yes...

and that you're okay with 3 year olds having sex,
I've never stated this. Quote me verbatim.

you do a better job at proving both those things than I do.
None of this is proof. Just the projection of asinine reasoning.

I don't think you realize how unacceptable what you are saying is.
Obviously, I don't.

You are fully advocating pedophilia.
No, I'm not.

There are strict, unforgiving laws against it all throughout the world that should be enough to prevent you from engaging in pedophilia, not to mention the extremely damaging abuse children suffer at the hands of pedophiles.
Except laws don't prevent anyone from engaging in pedophilia; child sex rings in some part are perpetrated by the very members of government who you claim attempt to prevent this. The Clinton Foundation in Haiti would be one glaring example.

This is nothing to be owning or embracing
I agree because I neither embraced nor owned it.

you are as bad for society as terrorists and serial killers.
Naturally.

You need to be rectified before you cause serious harm to a child, if you haven't already.
But of course. I mean, what have I argued if not in favor of my alleged attraction to minors?

No.

I never called you a convicted pedophile.

I called you a pedophile.
Operating on asinine reasoning...

I hope that if you ever get convicted of pedophilia, you are killed for your inhuman crime.
Yay?

Everything you write points in this direction.
That is your impression; that's not an observation.

The most damning quote is this: "The age of consent should be eliminated entirely".

You are a pedophile, Athias.
No, I'm an anarchist, but I can see how easy it is to get us confused.

That isn't how I came to the conclusion that you're a pedophile.
That's exactly how you came to the conclusion.

I've argued that because you don't see anything wrong with 3 year olds or 9 year olds having sex
Quote me verbatim.

To you, there is no difference between an adult and a 3 year old having sex. That is an essential belief of a pedophile, one of which you hold.
There's no difference  in discretion between a man having sex with a man, or a woman having sex with a woman, and a man having sex with a woman, which is a belief I hold. I must be gay. (Once again, your reasoning is asinine.)

===================================================================================================================================

Provide a more substantial argument in your response, or have a nice day. I won't indulge regress any further.




Polytheist-Witch
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@Dr.Franklin
Well considering the same people that are arguing for there be no age of consent are the same one saying it's okay to have sex with a cow.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Well considering the same people that are arguing for there be no age of consent are the same one saying it's okay to have sex with a cow.
And since I participated in that very discussion, according to Mesmer's rationale, I must fuck animals as well.

[Note: I know you were making reference to Underdog's statement; I'm using your statement as basis to further ridicule Mesmer's point.]
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@Athias
I'm going to summarize key points in this discussion because you make only a few repeated counter-arguments:

(1) You've conceded that: "None of this matters because the only considerations--"capable" or not--that should be made as it concerns one's own body is by the very person him or herself," is a wild claim that leads to wickedly dark conclusions.
(2) You've failed to demonstrate that my original argument is irrelevant Should the age of consent be lowered? (debateart.com) because you've failed to substantiate the idea that children are capable of consent. Thus, my arguments made in the quoted post all stand
(3) I've substantiated the idea that children are unable to consent through reference to brain development. Moreover, children are unable to comprehend the implications, emotional aspects and risks involved in sex (much like how you wouldn't expect children to pay for a house, manage taxes, work a proper job etc.). You affording the same "bodily autonomy" to children as adults is a bad idea because they are not the same and these differences matter. Calling this "fluff" isn't a sufficient counter-argument -- this is a bare assertion (which you make multiple times)
(4) You are a pedophile because you believe there is no difference children and adults having sex -- you have the capacity to be attracted to children. That is not the same as claiming you're a convicted pedophile, you have committed pedophilic acts or that you are planning to (hence, my reasoning is not "asinine"). Again, people are pedophiles due to your capacity to be attracted to children (which you are). Whether you are an anarchist or not has no bearing on this conclusion

But really, this is you larping as a cringelord anarchist and accidentally revealing that you're a pedophile, Athias.
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@Mesmer
1) You've conceded that: "None of this matters because the only considerations--"capable" or not--that should be made as it concerns one's own body is by the very person him or herself," is a wild claim that leads to wickedly dark conclusions.
I made no such concession; and I'd request that you quote me, but you've demonstrated no capacity to do this.

(2) You've failed to demonstrate that my original argument is irrelevant Should the age of consent be lowered? (debateart.com) because you've failed to substantiate the idea that children are capable of consent.
Your shallow argument is demonstrably irrelevant on its own; it needs no assistance from me. Note the statement which immediately followed my assessment: "because the only considerations--"capable" or not--that should be made as it concerns one's own body is by the very person him or herself. Your reference to diminished reasoning as a result of an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex does not in any way inform or explain the disqualification of a minor in behaving his or her body as he/she sees fit. Because in order to do this, you would have to quantify and arbitrarily select "how much" reasoning is necessary to have authority over one's own body. Do any of your references speak to this? No? Then it's irrelevant.

I've substantiated the idea that children are unable to consent through reference to brain development.
No you haven't. You've only asserted. You would have first had to have defined consent, and control for its legal definition. Then you would have to demonstrate how your reference informs the incapacity to consent as it met the description you've defined. You have done no such thing, because you exhibited the proclivity to submit shallow arguments.

Moreover, children are unable to comprehend the implications, emotional aspects and risks involved in sex (much like how you wouldn't expect children to pay for a house, manage taxes, work a proper job etc.).
Another shallow argument; no so such implications are required to be considered before having sex. Moreover, one is not criminally penalized for having sex for "less informed" or even stupid reasons. So this begs the question: why are any of these alleged implications even considered as a benchmark for minors, when adult are by no means compelled to follow suit? Your reasoning, once again, is asinine.

You affording the same "bodily autonomy" to children as adults is a bad idea because they are not the same and these differences matter.
It's either the minor has authority over  his or her body, or the State does. And subjecting the authority of one's body to the authority of the State is the worst idea.

Calling this "fluff" isn't a sufficient counter-argument
This presupposes that you provided an argument; I calls them like I sees them.

You are a pedophile because you believe there is no difference children and adults having sex
Physically, there isn't much difference. Emotionally, it's contingent on the individual, their being adults or minors not particularly withstanding.

you have the capacity to be attracted to children.
Don't forget "my capacity" to be attracted to other men, as well as non-human animals.

That is not the same as claiming you're a convicted pedophile, you have committed pedophilic acts or that you are planning to (hence, my reasoning is not "asinine"). Again, people are pedophiles due to your capacity to be attracted to children (which you are). Whether you are an anarchist or not has no bearing on this conclusion
Sorry, I have no intention of pretending your dime-store asinine psychoanalysis is consistent with any substantiated descriptions of pedophilia, nor do I have any intention of pretending that you're not just gaslighting and arguing ad hominem.

But really, this is you larping as a cringelord anarchist and accidentally revealing that you're a pedophile, Athias.
But of course. I mean, who knows me better than you do? Obviously I'm disqualified on speaking and informing on my own state of mind, and my own attractions, but some letters on a screen in just 20 minutes was able to reveal a cringe-worthy predilection using asinine reasoning. I suppose you could propose that I'm ashamed of what you're alleging, but as a rule, I never exhibit shame over anything I state or argue on this forum. Because I sincerely don't care enough about anyone else's opinion to modify my stances. You're not the first member who has attempted to troll me; and if you're going to attempt to troll, you might want to adjust your tactics. You were no more successful than when you once accused me of being autistic (yes, I know who you are, Mesmer.)

Well, I will engage this regress no more. You can respond if you want, but I won't respond back. Enjoy the rest of your evening, sir.
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@Athias
1) You've conceded that: "None of this matters because the only considerations--"capable" or not--that should be made as it concerns one's own body is by the very person him or herself," is a wild claim that leads to wickedly dark conclusions.
I made no such concession; and I'd request that you quote me, but you've demonstrated no capacity to do this.
I first said: "That's a wild claim that's going to lead to some wickedly dark conclusions"  Should the age of consent be lowered? (debateart.com) .

You responded by saying: "It doesn't change that your entire statement is irrelevant." Should the age of consent be lowered? (debateart.com) .

Your sentence inherently concedes that your general argument is wild and leads to wickedly dark conclusions, hence why your response contended with whether "my statement" was "irrelevant", and not my accusation that your argument was "wild" and lead to "dark conclusions" -- it conceded the latter.

(2) You've failed to demonstrate that my original argument is irrelevant Should the age of consent be lowered? (debateart.com) because you've failed to substantiate the idea that children are capable of consent.
Your shallow argument is demonstrably irrelevant on its own; it needs no assistance from me. Note the statement which immediately followed my assessment: "because the only considerations--"capable" or not--that should be made as it concerns one's own body is by the very person him or herself. Your reference to diminished reasoning as a result of an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex does not in any way inform or explain the disqualification of a minor in behaving his or her body as he/she sees fit. Because in order to do this, you would have to quantify and arbitrarily select "how much" reasoning is necessary to have authority over one's own body. Do any of your references speak to this? No? Then it's irrelevant.
Firstly, your claim that the "argument is demonstrably irrelevant on its own" is circular reasoning because your logic is that:

(Premise) "[my] entire statement is irrelevant."
(Conclusion) We know this because "[my] statement itself is proof enough of its irrelevance."

Hence, you're embedded the conclusion in your premise -- circular reasoning (logical fallacy).

Secondly, I find it reasonable to apply restrictions to autonomy based on a person's mental capacity. Again, that's why we don't expect 3 year old children to take care of a house and family. That's why we have differing legal standards based on the age of the criminal (i.e. lesser sentences for young people). It's just so obvious that the younger people are, the less they are able to understand the implications of their actions. That's why it's a good idea that 24 week old infants aren't having sex with 35 year old people, but you're making the argument that's this is fine, pedophile.

Thirdly, you've decided to engage in a continuum fallacy in that you've argued the delineations between ages are "arbitrary", therefore there should be no delineations (i.e. you're arguing that there should be no age restrictions on consent). This is actually a logical fallacy. The best way to show this is analogize colors. We recognize 'orange' and 'green' are distinct from each other (people aged 3 and 40). We also recognize 'orange' and 'red' are distinct from each other (people aged 14 and 18). However, when we have the hue in question be in the middle of 'orange' and 'red' (should we give bodily autonomy at aged 17 or 18?), it's sometimes hard to determine what color it is. Regardless, that doesn't mean the distinction between 'orange', 'green', 'purple' and all the other colors are wrong, it's just that it's harder to tell on some hues. This is why your continuum fallacy is logically invalid.

I've substantiated the idea that children are unable to consent through reference to brain development.
No you haven't. You've only asserted. You would have first had to have defined consent, and control for its legal definition. Then you would have to demonstrate how your reference informs the incapacity to consent as it met the description you've defined. You have done no such thing, because you exhibited the proclivity to submit shallow arguments.
You've shown your whole argument as logically inconsistent by labelling my argument as "irrelevant", and yet not knowing the definition of 'consent' I'm working with. If you don't know the argument I am making, then you cannot conclude it is "irrelevant" -- this is your logical inconsistency.

The definition of 'consent' I'm working with is 'the agreement to do something'. Part of this agreement should require both parties to understand the implications involved, as a 3 year old consenting to performing forklift operations in a high-risk, fast-moving dock environment might not be the best idea, so we invalidate the 3 year old's consent due to understanding a 3 year old can't understand the gravity of the task involved. 

Similarly, we don't allow 3 year olds to have sex because they can't understand the gravity of the task involved. You're treating literal infants with same the autonomy that we give adults. If you weren't larping as an anarchist, you'd understand how ridiculous that is.

Moreover, children are unable to comprehend the implications, emotional aspects and risks involved in sex (much like how you wouldn't expect children to pay for a house, manage taxes, work a proper job etc.).
Another shallow argument; no so such implications are required to be considered before having sex. Moreover, one is not criminally penalized for having sex for "less informed" or even stupid reasons. So this begs the question: why are any of these alleged implications even considered as a benchmark for minors, when adult are by no means compelled to follow suit? Your reasoning, once again, is asinine.
9 year old girls giving birth doesn't have implications that should be considered? 6 year old schoolboys having sex with 35 year old female teachers doesn't have implications that should be considered? I even spell it out to you and you still can't see the issues with treating children like adults.

Even with adults, people are prosecuted for having sex/performing sexual acts with ADULTS who are impaired. In some parts of the world, you can't legally give consent if you're drunk, asleep, seriously cognitively impaired etc. This has nothing to do with being "less informed" or "stupid" reasons. This has everything to do with these adults being unable to give consent due to their cognitive impairment/compromised state.

You're just mentally unable to grasp the fact that children are cognitively different to adults. It's actually astonishing. You are a legitimate pedophile.

You affording the same "bodily autonomy" to children as adults is a bad idea because they are not the same and these differences matter.
It's either the minor has authority over  his or her body, or the State does. And subjecting the authority of one's body to the authority of the State is the worst idea.
States don't have the right to force children to have sex, hence the state doesn't have authority over a child's body.

Instead, states prevent people exploiting a child's vulnerable nature by legally enforcing that a super serious act not be done to children. The law prevents dangerous pedophiles (like you) from harming children, NOT dictating what children do with their bodies.

Calling this "fluff" isn't a sufficient counter-argument
This presupposes that you provided an argument; I calls them like I sees them.
"Fluff" is a bare assertion and thus is logically rejected on that ground alone.

You are a pedophile because you believe there is no difference children and adults having sex
Physically, there isn't much difference. Emotionally, it's contingent on the individual, their being adults or minors not particularly withstanding.
There's physically not "much difference" between a 24 week old infant and a 57 year old man?

I've covered the emotional part many times. You don't understand that children and adults are emotionally very different because you're a pedophile.

you have the capacity to be attracted to children.
Don't forget "my capacity" to be attracted to other men, as well as non-human animals.
I never argued this. This is a total red herring.

Well, I will engage this regress no more. 
I hope so.

I hope the FBI or the "state" kicks down your door and arrest you for being a child predator. Or better yet, you attempt to resist the "state" in your anarchist larping and your brain redecorates your "state" housing.

Get out of here, pedophile. 
drlebronski
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that was an intersting read
drlebronski
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you might want to adjust your tactics. You were no more successful than when you once accused me of being autistic (yes, I know who you are, Mesmer.)

lol athias you have already tried that one on by calling me weakeredge do you just do this to everyone when your cornered?

Mesmer
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lol athias you have already tried that one on by calling me weakeredge do you just do this to everyone when your cornered?

Who would have thought the pedophile Athias is also a coward?

In the highly respected words of Jesse Lee Peterson: Amazin'.

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@Polytheist-Witch
yeah...i can see that