Pettiness from extremists

Author: TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog
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@Mesmer
This is an argument from incredulity as you gave no objective reason for us not to trust the source. 
Because they state that they are Alt right in their YouTube video which implies that they are biased.  It is pretty much only people with a strong right bias that call their channel "Alt censored".  

I've also demonstrated that African Americans don't pay for themselves, so at this stage you're objectively wrong.
Most African Americans pay for themselves as only a minority consume welfare benefits.  Those that do should get jobs.  Corporations take more welfare than individuals do.

The only time I would support automation is if there is a better alternative for the worker being automated.
You haven't given us a reason to agree with you.
So the unemployment rate doesn't skyrocket.

Again, Hispanics are a net negative on the US economy.
Only the Hispanic adults that are on welfare are a negative to the US economy.  Kicking them off at the federal and state level (and kicking corporations off of welfare) causes this group to not be on welfare anymore.

For example, African Americans are a minority in America and yet BLM is globally known.
BLM is known, but not everyone supports BLM.

You haven't provided a source for your second paragraph. Let's fix that before we start making arguments that extend from it.
Because the kids of muslims get exposed to huge numbers of christains and this causes them to respect western values more than their parents.


Your source states:

In addition, homeland security and related costs figure at around $589 billion. The cumulative costs of business interruption and reduced airline travel and tourism is estimated to be around $123 billion. Add to that $1.649 trillion in war funding and $867 billion in future war and veteran care, and the entire cost to the U.S. government adds up to a staggering $3.3 trillion.
These costs were just government waste and these costs should have never been paid.  Terrorist attacks don't have to result in this spending.  The buildings being destroyed was only about $55 billion and we should have gotten Saudi Arabia to pay for it.

Your middle argument isn't sourced. If you're not going to source anything you say, I have better things to read. I'm tempted to agree with it but I won't without a source.
If your referring to this claim:

America has spent more killing middle easterners than it has spent on Middle Easterners attacking the US.
Costs of the 20-year war on terror: $8 trillion and 900,000 deaths | Brown University states that the war on terror cost $8 trillion, enough money to pay every American over $24,000.

3000 people dying in an attack is obviously horrific for the people involved, though.
It's horrible for the people involved, but there are 300 million people in America.  if the odds of dying in a terrorist attack is 1/100,000, I don't think those are big odds to justify SJW policies of judging the Muslim group by the individual terrorists.
Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
Refusing a vacciene or a mask doesn't make vaccinated people significently less safe.  You can make this argument to implement a muslim ban.
Except that, setting aside the remarkable bigotry of claiming that the danger posed to the public because of Muslims is akin to COVID… this is just factually false. There is no evidence that banning Muslims would have any detectable impact on national security. Getting large portions of the population vaccinated however is objectively proven to make a significant impact. Your gay example if just as absurd. 

People should be free to decide their own risk tolerance, whether that is having sex with someone with HIV, or being unvaccinated.
You haven’t listened to a word I or anyone else has said. Getting vaccinated is not merely a personal choice, your actions impact everyone else around you. Unvaccinated people not only have a far greater chance of spreading the virus to other people including those who are immune compromised, but they are far more likely to drain our medical resources by filling up hospital ICU’s, contribute to mutations of the virus that the vaccines may not be able to protect against, and contribute to the economic impacts this has on all of us.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

This is why it is acceptable to speed even though some people die as a result.  The freedom of 250 million drivers to speed for over an hour every day for 350 days a year is a legitimate trade off to the 30,000 people that die from car accidents.  If you disagree, then don't speed.
You can’t be serious.

Setting aside the disgusting claim that 30,000 lives a year is a proportional trade off to letting everyone speed all year… Speeding doesn’t just endanger the safety of the driver, it impacts the safety of every car and pedestrian around that driver.

Why is this so difficult?

Do you believe in the old saying; “the freedom to swing your arms ends at someone else’s nose”?
TheUnderdog
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@Double_R
There is no evidence that banning Muslims would have any detectable impact on national security. 
No muslims in America -> less terror attacks.  But freedom and economic growth are trade offs to the deaths from terrorism, so the US lets muslims in.

Your gay example if just as absurd. 
The gay example is legitimate because HIV is also a health threat and kills many people just like covid, unless your claiming HIV is no big deal.

You haven’t listened to a word I or anyone else has said. 
Or maybe you just don't make any sense.

Getting vaccinated is not merely a personal choice, your actions impact everyone else around you.
This is false.  Vaccinations only impact you and unvaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people not only have a far greater chance of spreading the virus to other people including those who are immune compromised
People who are immunocompromised (like my brother) can still get a vaccine to protect themselves.

but they are far more likely to drain our medical resources by filling up hospital ICU’s
America does not have UHC.  The government does not pay a single cent for people to get treated.

contribute to mutations of the virus that the vaccines may not be able to protect against
The flu also does this.  However, people that want to be vaccinated against the flu get vaccinated every year and the process only takes some amount of time to drive there and back to get your vacciene.

contribute to the economic impacts this has on all of us.
People who aren't vaccinated only impact their own economy.  Buisinesses can hire others for more money to fill the void left by the employee that got covid.

Setting aside the disgusting claim that 30,000 lives a year is a proportional trade off to letting everyone speed all year… Speeding doesn’t just endanger the safety of the driver, it impacts the safety of every car and pedestrian around that driver.
So I'm assuming you don't speed?  Because I speed fairly frequently and so do over 90% of drivers.  If your against speeding, you are free to drive below the speed limit if you don't want to cause any deaths.  But the freedom to speed is a legitimate trade off to the lives saved from speed limits of only 20 mph on the highways.

Do you believe in the old saying; “the freedom to swing your arms ends at someone else’s nose”?
It's more like, "People can swing their arms if the odds of hitting someone is almost non existent (assuming they are blind and have no idea if they are hitting someone)".  I have sped thousands of times and never killed a single person in an accident.  

Speed limits as they are are authoritarian.
Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
No muslims in America -> less terror attacks.  But freedom and economic growth are trade offs to the deaths from terrorism, so the US lets muslims in.
Well over 600k Americans have died from COVID in the past year and a half. Remind me how many Americans were killed by Muslim terrorists during that time.

The gay example is legitimate because HIV is also a health threat and kills many people just like covid, unless your claiming HIV is no big deal.
HIV infects heterosexuals as well, so this is just stupid.

People who are immunocompromised (like my brother) can still get a vaccine to protect themselves.
Vaccinated people can die from this, and those cases tend to be overwhelmingly immunocompromised. Do you not know this, or are you just trolling? Cause that is what this is starting to feel like.

America does not have UHC.  The government does not pay a single cent for people to get treated.
I never said anything about government, but the rest of us are absolutely paying for this. How do you think insurance works?

What I was actually talking about however are ICU beds filling up so people who come in with other ailments cannot get the care that they need. These beds are in many cases filled with over 90% Covid patients and 95% of them being unvaccinated. Their choices are absolutely impacting other people.

People who aren't vaccinated only impact their own economy.  Buisinesses can hire others for more money to fill the void left by the employee that got covid.
WTF? What is “their own economy”? What are you talking about?

When cases are soaring people stay away. They stop traveling, not just state by state but internationally. This is common sense, and it clearly impacts all of us.

Do you believe in the old saying; “the freedom to swing your arms ends at someone else’s nose”?
It's more like, "People can swing their arms if the odds of hitting someone is almost non existent (assuming they are blind and have no idea if they are hitting someone)".
I can see why nothing makes sense to you, cause you have zero ability to understand anything even slightly hyperbolic.

The phrase “someone else’s nose” is referring to other people’s space. Not just physical space, but any encroachment into someone else’s well being. This includes endangering someone else’s safety. Odds have nothing to do with it.

You believe it’s ok to speed cause chances are low that you’ll kill or hurt someone else. Is that the position you will take after someone drives past your from yard doing 70 while your children are playing tag? 

To not believe in this basic principal is absurd, but I’ll allow for you to clarify your position before going further.
Mesmer
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@TheUnderdog
This is an argument from incredulity as you gave no objective reason for us not to trust the source. 
Because they state that they are Alt right in their YouTube video which implies that they are biased.  It is pretty much only people with a strong right bias that call their channel "Alt censored".  
This is Ad Hominem. Being "biased" doesn't necessitate that someone is wrong. If the bias is a problem, it will make them wrong, but it won't always make them wrong.

Don't stoop the standards of shitlibs. You're a much better poster than that.

I've also demonstrated that African Americans don't pay for themselves, so at this stage you're objectively wrong.
Most African Americans pay for themselves as only a minority consume welfare benefits.  Those that do should get jobs.  Corporations take more welfare than individuals do.
I provided a data-driven source to show that this is not the case.

I prefer that evidence over you effectively saying 'no'.

The only time I would support automation is if there is a better alternative for the worker being automated.
You haven't given us a reason to agree with you.
So the unemployment rate doesn't skyrocket.
There are a lot of assumptions you're making with this, and it's super hard to agree with you when you don't source or provide much elaboration.

I agree prima facie that automation will probably have a negative effect, but you haven't come close to showing it at all, let alone suggesting that it will "skyrocket".

Again, Hispanics are a net negative on the US economy.
Only the Hispanic adults that are on welfare are a negative to the US economy.  Kicking them off at the federal and state level (and kicking corporations off of welfare) causes this group to not be on welfare anymore.
How do you know this? Where is your source?

Lol.

It's just bare assertion after bare assertion with you.

For example, African Americans are a minority in America and yet BLM is globally known.
BLM is known, but not everyone supports BLM.
That's besides the point I was making.

The point I was making was that even minority groups could have major influence on politics.

You haven't provided a source for your second paragraph. Let's fix that before we start making arguments that extend from it.
Because the kids of muslims get exposed to huge numbers of christains and this causes them to respect western values more than their parents.
[citation needed]

In addition, homeland security and related costs figure at around $589 billion. The cumulative costs of business interruption and reduced airline travel and tourism is estimated to be around $123 billion. Add to that $1.649 trillion in war funding and $867 billion in future war and veteran care, and the entire cost to the U.S. government adds up to a staggering $3.3 trillion.
These costs were just government waste and these costs should have never been paid.  Terrorist attacks don't have to result in this spending.  The buildings being destroyed was only about $55 billion and we should have gotten Saudi Arabia to pay for it.
The point was that this is what it cost. You could argue that it shouldn't have been that expensive, but it was.

Your middle argument isn't sourced. If you're not going to source anything you say, I have better things to read. I'm tempted to agree with it but I won't without a source.
If your referring to this claim:

America has spent more killing middle easterners than it has spent on Middle Easterners attacking the US.
Costs of the 20-year war on terror: $8 trillion and 900,000 deaths | Brown University states that the war on terror cost $8 trillion, enough money to pay every American over $24,000.
So you finally decide to source one of your arguments.

I actually agree with your argument now.

Well done :)

3000 people dying in an attack is obviously horrific for the people involved, though.
It's horrible for the people involved, but there are 300 million people in America.  if the odds of dying in a terrorist attack is 1/100,000, I don't think those are big odds to justify SJW policies of judging the Muslim group by the individual terrorists.
Yeah I agree the deaths aren't a huge problem (relatively speaking).

It's more the cost and fear it generates.

Also, I'm pretty sure that SJWs are into the whole 'solidarity with Muslims' thing, but whatever; that doesn't really matter.
ethang5
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@TheUnderdog
This is a bigger issue than both of these combined!
Not to the ones dying from police brutality or terrorism.