Some observations regarding debates on DebateArt

Author: 949havoc

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#1
949havoc
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As a 2-day member, I've drawn some conclusion about debates on this site, based on stats noted on the main page.
1. The typical debate has 3 rounds.
2. The typical debate attracts 18 comments from members
3. The typical debate attracts 3 votes

Just curious about the marketing of this site, by members, since that is my profession.

I conclude that while some members devote 3 rounds each to debate a subject, the rest are more interested in peanut gallery commentary by a 5x margin over voting, indicating a significant preference to kritik over critiquing. Okay, eyes wide open, then.

#2
RationalMadman
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@949havoc
Well, unlike your marketing, this is not our profession so how about you fuck off judging what we do for fun? If you have a better way to debate and market said debates, go ahead and do it.

"Be the change you want to see in the world." Mahatma Gandhi.

This will get Mesmer to preach to me about Gandhi.
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#3
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@RationalMadman
Conclusions are not necessarily judgments, so why don't you fuck off your high/mightiness and be a little civil? Start by living your A.C.T.
#4
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@949havoc
Careful.

The RatMan will block you.
#5
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@949havoc
na you're the one acting high and mighty while feigning civility when you're making the thread to criticise us.
#6
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@949havoc
Conclusions are not necessarily judgments, so why don't you fuck off your high/mightiness and be a little civil? Start by living your A.C.T.
I remember something being taught as early in school as in 5th grade called the "show, don't tell". 
#7
Mesmer
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@zedvictor4
Careful.

The RatMan will block you.
I hope 949 realizes how serious this is. When RatMan blocks you, that means you can't talk to him!!!
#8
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@949havoc
Nah man, most debates don't get commented on, and most get maybe one vote. That's why I vote bump my debates constantly to keep them on the front page so they actually get votes. Otherwise, it could slip right past.
#9
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@Mesmer
That's only if The RatMan can ignore you.

Depends upon how much you goad him.

Or how much he feels goaded.
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#10
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@RationalMadman
when you're making the thread to criticise us.
Ooo, poor baby; can't take a little criticism? Sorry to disturb your beauty sleep. 
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#11
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@zedvictor4
That's entirely on him. No skin off my nose.
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#12
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@Sum1hugme
What's a vote bump?
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#13
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@Intelligence_06
Since when is demonstration of analysis not "showing?" I could have just said that stuff; that commentary exceeds voting, etc. I showed the data as proof. 
#14
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@949havoc
When you post a comment on your own debate during the voting stage so that it goes to the front page.
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#15
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@Sum1hugme
Ah. Thanks.
#16
ILikePie5
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@Mesmer
I hope 949 realizes how serious this is. When RatMan blocks you, that means you can't talk to him!!!
It also means that the people he’s blocked are all bullies that enjoy bullying him 
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#17
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@RationalMadman
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@Mesmer
Whatever blocking is, doesn't sound like a major obstacle, so what's the big deal? If RationalMadman chooses to block me, that's his to do, no? Isn't it useless as a third wheels to talk about it? He will, or won't. Speculation doesn't further the discussion.  Seems to me that kind of sensitivity for an adult is a bit childish, but that's just me.
#18
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@949havoc
Whatever blocking is, doesn't sound like a major obstacle, so what's the big deal? If RationalMadman chooses to block me, that's his to do, no? Isn't it useless as a third wheels to talk about it? He will, or won't. Speculation doesn't further the discussion.  Seems to me that kind of sensitivity for an adult is a bit childish, but that's just me.
He gets triggered easily.

Imagine him as this person

#19
oromagi
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@949havoc
It is true that debaters are only a small subset of participants on the site.  The 30 most active debaters have participated in 1936 debates, a hundred more than total debates and so more than the other 463 debaters combined.  RM alone has participated in nearly one out of every five debates on this site.

avg 18 comments per debate sounds high but comments are usually a feast or famine type dynamic.  You're dividing total numbers of debate comments by total number of debates?

avg 3 votes per debate is definitely misleading.  The debates that get the most votes require no effort- forfeits mostly.  If you eliminate all the forfeits and debates not requiring a justification for vote, you would see that our avg. considered vote per worthy debate is much lower, maybe even less than an avg of one vote per debate since that there are many worthy debates that end unvoted, much to the discontent of regular debaters.  Proper voting requires a lot of time and consideration and yields little reward-there's a lot of challenges and a lot of resentment that sometimes carries over to other debates.


#20
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@949havoc
Just curious about the marketing of this site, by members, since that is my profession.

Marketing implies a desire to grow in size which is not necessarily the motivation of some of the most influential membership. I don't know if you have been on debate.org but this site was essentially founded by refugees from that site, which enjoyed fast growth but then the participants lost control over that site's destiny and it now exists as kind wasteland- a crater of clickbait where a community once lived.  I sense a deep ambiguity about marketing this site.
#21
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@949havoc
1. The typical debate has 3 rounds.
2. The typical debate attracts 18 comments from members
3. The typical debate attracts 3 votes
Naw dawg, if you been here for longer you would realize:

1. The typical debate has 3 rounds.
2.  Only debates where the resolution is flashy af, or the debate is flashy af, comments are more than three.
3. Only troll, concession, or FF debates get more than two votes lmao.

btw, your method of collecting this data based on the main stats is flawed (i'm assuming you did totalComments/totalDebates and totalVotes/totalDebates)

#22
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As proof of this claim:


btw, your method of collecting this data based on the main stats is flawed (i'm assuming you did totalComments/totalDebates and totalVotes/totalDebates)
DART estimates that there are around 280,000 posts, divide this by the members, and you'll get around 539 posts per person. That figure is completely wrong.

Only on around page 4 out of the 18 pages do users match around 500 posts. That's around 77% of the user base not posting stuff that matches the average.



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#23
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@oromagi
I cannot argue anything you've said, and, surely, no-vote debates are probably a problem, even if not a significant problem. At least, I hope it isn't significant - say, above 10 or 15% - but I don't see the time used in determining that an efficient use of time. Perhaps that issue could be automatically counted with someone's re-programming of the stats - a moderator? But, with your being the clear leader in debate rating, I value your opinion.
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#24
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@oromagi
Yes, marketing would be viewed mostly as a growth effort, but on the other hand, who knows what influence a comment here or there off-site has?
No, I'm not at all familiar with Debate.org, and had no idea this site is a refugee conclave. Surely, not all, and certainly not me..
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#25
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@oromagi
@Crocodile
Regarding your altered #2, and for oromagi's benefit, since he also raised this issue, my arrival at an avg of 18 comments per debate was a simple division of number of comments by number of debates. Having reviewed a fair number of debates as a precursor to joining the site, I acknowledge that the more controversial the debate may be, the more comments it attracts. Therefore, the simple division is a bit elementary.

I would also agree your #3 alteration has merit.

Thanks
#26
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@949havoc
-->@oromagi
I cannot argue anything you've said, and, surely, no-vote debates are probably a problem, even if not a significant problem. At least, I hope it isn't significant - say, above 10 or 15% - but I don't see the time used in determining that an efficient use of time. Perhaps that issue could be automatically counted with someone's re-programming of the stats - a moderator?

Well, a guy we just voted into the hall of fame a couple of weeks ago made a big speech about how screwed up voting is and has not returned, so no-votes are probably best characterized as an increasing problem.

I have recommended:

  • auto-loss on first forfeit (to save voters time and effort)
  • setting debates for a minimum number of votes before closing- 3 seems reasonable
  • Make voting the price of  initiating a debate: something like writing 3 votes earns you 1 debate
The first of these has some support, the latter two less so.  None seems to enjoy better than 50% support amongst active debaters.

But, with your being the clear leader in debate rating, I value your opinion.
Leaderboard ratings are deceptive, too.  I have no formal debate experience and I would not call myself better at debating than most of the others on the top 20.  The leaderboard rewards quantity over quality.
#27
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@949havoc
-->@oromagi
Yes, marketing would be viewed mostly as a growth effort, but on the other hand, who knows what influence a comment here or there off-site has?
I assume none since I've never seen any evidence of influence.

No, I'm not at all familiar with Debate.org, and had no idea this site is a refugee conclave. Surely, not all, and certainly not me..
No, not all and that history is not at all important to participation here.  I hope you will feel very welcome.

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#28
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@oromagi
I have recommended:

  • auto-loss on first forfeit (to save voters time and effort)
  • setting debates for a minimum number of votes before closing- 3 seems reasonable
  • Make voting the price of  initiating a debate: something like writing 3 votes earns you 1 debate
I support all three suggestions, however, the second may be a bit extreme. I would certainly argue for more than 1 vote, but min two votes at least offers a broader perspective than a single voting member. Three may have trouble gathering sufficient support, but what do I know as the 3-day member with no formal debate experience other than in high school some time ago.
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#29
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@oromagi
 I hope you will feel very welcome.
I do, indeed. I'm looking forward to become an active debater, and currently have two challenges registered, but the other current challenges have no interest to me, unfortunately. It appears, given the number of active debates, that challenges are frequent.
#30
Mesmer
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@ILikePie5
It also means that the people he’s blocked are all bullies that enjoy bullying him 
Yes. They have bullied him very badly by disagreeing with him. The fact that people enjoy bullying like that makes my soy go sour.