Abraham Was Backward

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#31
keithprosser
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@disgusted
A useful analogy is the story of George Washington and the cherry tree.    There we have a story about a real person that isn't true but was made up simply to portray GW as a paragon of honesty from childhood.

The inventor of the isaac episode wanted to do something similar - he wanted to portray Abraham as a fervent follower of YHWH as befits a patriarch and to portray YHWH as willing to test the faith fof hisbelivers but ultimatetly as morally good.

   
#32
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@Stephen
When we remove your fakery, here is what the verse actually says, 

Gen 22:2 - And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Bibles are free Pinocchio, lying about what verses say is idiotic.
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#33
Stephen
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@ethang5

Gen 22:2 - And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

 You responses are slightly retarded not to mention sly and deceitful. 

Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love--Isaac--and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you."

"Take your son, your only son--yes, Isaac, whom you love so much--and go to the land of Moriah. Go and sacrifice him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will show you."

The LORD said, "Go get Isaac, your only son, the one you dearly love! Take him to the land of Moriah, and I will show you a mountain where you must sacrifice him to me on the fires of an altar." 
He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for a holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee. 

And you have also failed to address the point of Isaac NOT being Abraham's only son and you have not addressed the fact the dimwit Abraham couldn't world out for himself that there would be no nation coming from him if the order to murder his son was carried out.

But there again, your dimwittery is on par with the Abrahams, so I wouldn't expect anything less from a boring, nauseating clown such as yourself.
#34
ethang5
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And you have also failed to address the point of Isaac NOT being Abraham's only son
I did. Your poor reading comprehension has flommoxed you again. Its in the text of the bible you didn't read. Issac was Abraham's only son inside the promise given by God. It helps you not to look like an idiot if you first read the passage you want yo oppose.

Abraham couldn't world out for himself that there would be no nation coming from him if the order to murder his son was carried out. 
Because God couldn't give him another son? Because God could not raise the dead son back to life? Because you're too stupid to figure simple stuff like that out?

Insulting people will not make you right. Your argument, as always, is built on militant ignorance and stupidity. The bible is not contradictory, you just lack common sense.
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#35
Stephen
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ts in the text of the bible you didn't read. Issac was Abraham's only son inside the promise given by God. It helps you not to look like an idiot if you first read the passage you want yo oppose.

Stop making things up.

Because God couldn't give him another son?

I haven't said that. I have said he had other sons. So Issac wasn't his ONLY son was he, you dunce. 



Sons Of Abraham 


Because God could not raise the dead son back to life?

So where does it say, :  "Abraham sacrifice your ONLY son and I will raise him from the burnt ashes once you have murdered him and set him of fire?
You are so desperate to explain this crap away you are just making more crap up. 
 

Because you're too stupid to figure simple stuff like that out?

I am not. But Abraham was "too stupid" to work out that god would be going back on his promise to build a "great nation" from him if he was to kill his ONLY son. Who wasn't his ONLY son was he? 

Get over yourself. This story is  nonsense and you know it. 
#36
Mopac
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There should not be any doubt that Abraham was about to sacrifice his son.

But he didn't.



#37
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@Stephen
You are missing the entire point of the story. Typical.
#38
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Almost every character accounted in the Bible could be called backward.  
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#39
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@Grugore
You are missing the entire point of the story. Typical.

You are missing the bleedin obvious.  Why was not Abraham able to work out the there wouldn't be a "great nation built from him"  if he killed his only son that wasn't his only son?

I understand the cruel and sadistic loyalty test involved here. God was very keen to show us how cruel and sadistic he could actually be even to the innocent.
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#40
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There should not be any doubt that Abraham was about to sacrifice his son.

I agree. but for some clown reason, ethang5 doesn't believe this to be the case. He is actually trying to re-write the bible, AGAIN.
#41
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@Stephen
Fool! You lack any understanding of Scripture. This passage has been explained countless times and you still don't get it. Do you really believe that your arguments will sway anyone? Why should anyone listen to you. What are your credentials? You are a nobody. A troll. That's all you are. Many people who are way smarter have explained this story. They have degrees. They have studied Scripture for decades. I'll listen to them. Have a nice day.
#42
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@Stephen
How do you work out something that is literally impossible?
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#43
Stephen
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This passage has been explained countless times and you still don't get it.

LIAR!!!

Why should anyone listen to you.

I have no idea. I haven't begged you to come to my thread. You came all on your own accord. I don't care what you think of me, it is irrelevant.

What are your credentials?

What are yours.  Listening to others instead of studying for yourself, I don't doubt. You just seem a part of the clown circus as far as I am concerned , Now address the OP of leave the thread. I am not begging you to remain here being a nuisance.

You are a nobody.

To some people I may be.


A troll.

No. I just have questions concerning the scriptures that you seem to find embarrassing and awkward.

 Many people who are way smarter have explained this story.

I know the story you boring tit. I just don't see how this clown Abraham couldn't work out that the promise from his god couldn't come to fruition if he were to carry out his god's orders to murder his son.


They have degrees.
That's a new one YAAAAAAAAWWWN

They have studied Scripture for decades.

Yes, well I have over  four decades invested in  studying these biblical scriptures.



I'll listen to them.

Just as I thought. I know you do. instead of listening to them, you should study them for yourself. You will find a completely different story to the one you have been "listening to" and fed over the years..

Have a nice day.
I nearly always do.
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#44
Stephen
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How do you work out something that is literally impossible?

Well I managed to reason it out on my first reading of the story.

Is all Abraham had to ask himself was   'if the lord has promised to make a great nation from me,  how can this be if  he is now  asking me to murder and burn my only son to a crisp as a sacrifice.?

   Do you now see how simple that is.
 
And Isaac wasn't Abraham's only son either, was he? 
#45
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@Stephen
You asked a question, haven't worked out anything.  The question you are replying to goes unanswered
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#46
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@Plisken
You asked a question,

I did 

haven't worked out anything.  

I have worked out immediately that if god made me a promise of building a nation from me, then this couldn't happen if I was to kill my only son. 



#47
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@Stephen
Ok stephenham.  Out of curiousity, do you think your son is going to survive the sacrifice?
#48
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@Stephen
This whole thing was a test of Abraham's unquestioning obedience of God. So why are you asking why Abraham obeyed God without question? This is the same man who didn't bat an eyelash when God told him to shave part of his penis off, Stephen. Shave it off. He didn't speak up to question the relationship between piety and genital mutilation, but you expect him to speak up to say "but this thing you're saying now contradicts that other thing you said before"?

God could give Abraham many sons after Isaac, so I don't think there's a whole lot of conflict between "kill your son" and "I will give you a great nation".

 You couldn't be more wrong. and you have ignored the fact that god refers to Issac as Abraham's ONLY SON.
I did indeed fail to address it. Forgot it more than ignored it, really. I'm not as interested in picking over the minutia of biblical inconsistencies as you are, so these things tend to slip by me.

It does look like something of a contradiction. I suppose my only guess would be that God was referring to Abraham's only legitimate son. Hadn't Ishmael been cast out at this point after Sarah had a Catelyn Stark bitch fit? God had made it clear that it was Isaac and only Isaac he recognized as special, chosen, prophesied. He was like, "Look I'll cosign on Ishmael's first car and put him through college and everything, but seriously Isaac is the true line, mkay. I already mailed the fertility pills to Sarah not Hagar and I'm not gonna fuck around with USPS shipping to redirect the package, that's a nightmare."

#49
disgusted
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@ethang5
Issac was Abraham's only son inside the promise given by God

The Ch & Vs where this is stated would be..........................................?

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#50
Stephen
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@Castin
This whole thing was a test of Abraham's unquestioning obedience of God. So why are you asking why Abraham obeyed God without question? 
 
Yes I know it was a cruel sadistic test of loyalty as was the same test of Job where god killed all  of  Job's  children,destroyed all of his livestock and tore down his house, just  to prove a point  over a bet .  I am asking, how was it that Abraham couldn’t work out that a great nation would not spring from him as god had promised if he had murdered his only son.
 
I'm not as interested in picking over the minutia of biblical inconsistencies.
 
Then simply do not respond. I didn’t ask you to and I didn't beg you to and no one has forced you to. But the fact is there.  A glaring fact that Isaac was not Abraham's only son as this god says he was.
 
 You may think highlighting this biblical contentious contradiction from GOD HIMSELF is "minutia", but I do not. God here was wrong or lying or the writers didn’t know what they were talking about. This is why it is contentious.
 
I suppose my only guess would be that God was referring to Abraham's only legitimate son.
 
 I believe this to be the case and I am glad you said that. But in suggesting that you then  run into a problem right away with the Christians here,   because you see  the bible doesn’t actually state that,  the theist clowns here wouldn’t accept that as an explanation. I have raised ideas and had opinions of many of these scripture but have been shouted down with the age old mantra of : “ if it ain’t in the bible it ain’t true”.  So guessing is out of the question as far as these clowns are concerned.

Besides why would they accept this extra NONE biblical explanation and not others? The answer to that would be : because it suites them to. 

  This is why prefer to listen to what the theist clowns here have to say to explain away these anomalous , contradictory, vague and ambiguous verses that are the scriptures.
#51
ethang5
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@Stephen
because you see  the bible doesn’t actually state tha
Lie. The bible does state that Isaac was the son of the promise. That is how we know it.

It's in the text of the bible you didn't read. Issac was Abraham's only son inside the promise given by God. It helps you not to look like an idiot if you first read the passage you want yo oppose.

Stop making things up.
Stop being stupid and read the text. Its in there. How else would Castin know?

Because God couldn't give him another son?

I haven't said that.
If you know God could have given him another son, then your belief that the promise was impossible if Isaac died is stupidity.

I have said he had other sons. So Issac wasn't his ONLY son was he, you dunce. 
Not the point genius. Isaac was the only son he had with Sarah, under the promise.

Because God could not raise the dead son back to life?

So where does it say, :  "Abraham sacrifice your ONLY son and I will raise him from the burnt ashes once you have murdered him and set him of fire?
It doesn't have to say so for it to be possible for God Einstein.

You are so desperate to explain this crap away you are just making more crap up. 
It's in the text Jed. You just didn't read it. Everyone here, theist or atheist, can at least understand the story, except you. You even deny points you've conceded. Nothing has been made up except your loony interpretation.

Because you're too stupid to figure simple stuff like that out?

I am not.
You certainly are. If God has the power to raise the son back to life, then the promise is not impossible with the death of Isaac. You're just too stupid to see this.

But Abraham was "too stupid" to work out that god would be going back on his promise to build a "great nation" from him if he was to kill his ONLY son.
See? You are too stupid to see it.

Who wasn't his ONLY son was he? 
By Sarah and by the promise? Yes.

Get over yourself. This story is  nonsense and you know it
The only nonsense here is from you.
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#52
Stephen
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Who wasn't his ONLY son was he? 
By Sarah and by the promise? Yes


 The bible does not state that at all does it you clown?   Show me where god tells Abraham to offer as a   "sacrifice your only son by your wife Sarah". 

You can't because it doesn't state that you LIAR!!!!!

It's in the text Jed. You just didn't read it.

Yes you spout this crap regularly but never produce the evidence. Your just a liar trying to explain away these anomalous embarrassing stories and your no good at it.  You keep pulling your hair out my friend, while I sit back and watch you do it.
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#53
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@Castin
This whole thing was a test of Abraham's unquestioning obedience of God. So why are you asking why Abraham obeyed God without question? 
 
Yes I know it was a cruel sadistic test of loyalty as was the same test of Job where god killed all  of  Job's  children,destroyed all of his livestock and tore down his house, just  to prove a point  over a bet .  I am asking, how was it that Abraham couldn’t work out that a great nation would not spring from him as god had promised if he had murdered his only son.
 
I'm not as interested in picking over the minutia of biblical inconsistencies.
 
Then simply do not respond. I didn’t ask you to and I didn't beg you to and no one has forced you to. But the fact is there.  A glaring fact that Isaac was not Abraham's only son as this god says he was. 
 
 You may think highlighting this biblical contentious contradiction from GOD HIMSELF is "minutia", but I do not. God here was wrong or lying or the writers didn’t know what they were talking about. This is why it is contentious.
 
I suppose my only guess would be that God was referring to Abraham's only legitimate son.
 
 I believe this to be the case and I am glad you said that. But in suggesting that you then  run into a problem right away with the Christians here,   because you see  the bible doesn’t actually state that,  the theist clowns here wouldn’t accept that as an explanation. I have raised ideas and had opinions of many of these scripture but have been shouted down with the age old mantra of : “ if it ain’t in the bible it ain’t true”.  So guessing is out of the question as far as these clowns are concerned. 

Besides why would they accept this extra NONE biblical explanation and not others? The answer to that would be : because it suites them to. 

  This is why prefer to listen to what the theist clowns here have to say to explain away these anomalous , contradictory, vague and ambiguous verses that are the scriptures.

#54
Castin
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@Stephen
What's this? You prefer people who actually believe in this book to answer your critical questions about it? Well I never. Are you saying you don't want atheists like me and keith lumbering in your way going "blah bleh bleh atheist guesses blah bleh bleh purely anthropological interest blah bleh bleh ahurpa durpa"?

(Sometimes my keith impression is so good it scares even me. "purely anthropological interest blah bleh bleh ahurpa durpa" -- my god, I've got chills.)
#55
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@Castin
"...blah bleh bleh ahurpa durpa"
I'm suing.



#56
disgusted
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@Castin
What's this? You prefer people who actually believe in this book to answer your critical questions about it?
The point is that they can't, because there are no answers available using honesty.

#57
Plisken
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How has it been established that this is a test?
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#58
Stephen
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@Castin
You prefer people who actually believe in this book to answer your critical questions about it?

I do prefer, but not solely . Because they- the believers - should be able to handle these questions, without crying and blarting about how nasty I am and that I am only here to " turn people away from the lord" etc etc.




Are you saying you don't want atheists like me and keith lumbering in your way

I don't think I suggested any such thing although prossor is as boring and nauseating as ethang5 sometimes and never hardly comes off the fence on way or another. 





going "blah bleh bleh atheist guesses blah bleh bleh purely anthropological interest blah bleh bleh ahurpa durpa"? 


Yes just like that. A very good prosser impression, you could be one and the same person.


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#59
Stephen
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@disgusted
The point is that they can't, because there are no answers available using honesty.
I believe that to be the case.


prosser is a strange one though. One minute he's banging on about how these thousands of years old scriptures aren't   true at all and basically complete BS from beginning to end,  and then spends pages and pages giving us his in depth nauseating opinion of  all what these scriptures could mean and then  adding " but we will never know we wasn't there". By this standard of his we may as well discount all the history ever written as BS.

#60
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And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.