biden is to blame for the fall of afghanistan

Author: n8nrgmi

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#1
n8nrgmi
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many generals in the army said it would happen, and even before the operation to end that war was over, the country succumbed to the taliban. it was definitely predictable. now the taliban has all the resources and weopons and such that they seized. 

with that said, some people say if it was so easy for all this to happen, it was always a tenuous situation and we were just fighting an endless war to prop them up against something inevitable if we ever left. some say we also achieved our main objective, which was gettin those who were primarily responsible for 9 11. 

maybe the real test for if biden gets blame, is if any of those terrorists regroup and attack the usa. 

questions, comments, words of wisdom? 
#2
Dr.Franklin
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 is if any of those terrorists regroup and attack the usa. 

i dont think so, the Taliban hasnt really done anything with the US directly, its always been different groups that operate either in their control or sphere of influence, those groups WERE  crippled by US involvement so we'll see
#3
FLRW
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@n8nrgmi
On February 29, 2020, the US, under the Trump administration, and the Taliban signed a peace agreement titled the Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan, with provisions including the withdrawal of all regular American and NATO troops from Afghanistan, a Taliban pledge to prevent al-Qaeda from operating in areas under Taliban control, and talks between the Taliban and the government of the then Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.
#4
Wylted
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I can't help but to notice that CNN and fox are both starting with the presuppositions.  One side claims the fallout was inevitable regardless of whether Trump or biden pulled out, while the other side blaming biden because he pulled out during "fighting season" instead of doing it in May. 

Nobody is asking if we should be there at all
#5
TheMorningsStar
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I think the Taliban would have taken over no matter what, but Biden and his administration pulled out in, essentially, the worst way possible.

What should have happened is for a formal negotiation to happen with the Taliban (something Trump was working on) so that when, not if, the Taliban took over Afghanistan that it would be a larger international issue, as it shows that they have no intention of honoring negotiations with others (and would get some countries to take a more antagonistic stance that would otherwise have been neutral).

There are also ways in which they could have pulled out where they didn't have to leave behind so much equipment for the Taliban to get ahold of. So many things went wrong here, and it just shows the US as being weak right now. This only increases my worry with China, who paid so much attention to what is going on that they were one of the first nations to acknowledge the Taliban controlled Afghanistan. With the US looking weak, what will happen with Taiwan?
#6
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@n8nrgmi
The Afghan government knew America wouldn't stay forever. They knew this day would come and were unprepared. Too bad.
#7
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@n8nrgmi
Other than his vote in 2002, giving Bush authority to use force in Iraq, I've no blame that I attribute Biden for Afghanistan.
And even that blame, is spread about multiple people, and extenuating circumstances.

If the Taliban are still a powerful force in the region,
If the government we supported is a weak force in the region,
Then we've been playing our cards wrong for years and years,
Not the short time of Biden's presidency.
#8
Vader
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Yet Orange Man bad
#9
Vader
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CONGRATS DEMS!

Your mismanagement of Afghanistan caused millions of lives to be in danger and a result, a terrorist group taking charge. I hope you can sleep at night knowing of your mismanagement with an incompetent president. The Democratic party fucked over Afghanistan in the 1990s, and under Biden, fucked it up here. I don't know how anyone can think U.S isn't to blame. Shame on Biden and his frauds
#10
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@FLRW
On February 29, 2020, the US, under the Trump administration, and the Taliban signed a peace agreement titled the Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan, with provisions including the withdrawal of all regular American and NATO troops from Afghanistan, a Taliban pledge to prevent al-Qaeda from operating in areas under Taliban control, and talks between the Taliban and the government of the then Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.
Ya by May 1st. It’s August. So who again violated that deal?
#11
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History tends to repeat itself if we don’t learn from it.
#12
RationalMadman
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The Democratic party fucked over Afghanistan in the 1990s, and under Biden, fucked it up here. I don't know how anyone can think U.S isn't to blame.
Bushes and Reagan did a fine job of that all on their own, not that you'd know or care.

It's true that under both parties, the US is actually to blame for some things in the Middle East, for instance it was due to European and US intervention that Iran became secured as a Sharia state against the will of the Pagan Persians, very similar things happened in Egypt and Syria and yes Obama was involved with it happening in Egypt.

However, what Republicans do/did is not just enabling ruthless groups like Taliban leeway to take over (you start bombing a country without its permission, like Bush did to Pakistan and you happen to miss a leader or two and suddenly the schoolchildren those bombs slaughtered aren't so easy to justify killing).

You do understand why the Middle East hates the US right? It's a lot more to do with Reagan and the Bushes than the Dems but from FDR  to now it's true that Dems haven't dealt with the Middle East in entirely ideal ways. The US and the Middle East will probably never ever see eye to eye genuinely, even the core cultural values are so different.

#13
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Yet Orange Man bad
Oh, he really is. In fact, what people forget when they say he'd have won if it wasn't for Covid is this lunatic almost started world war three twice. That time when he illegally assassinated the general was after this had already gone down:

#14
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@n8nrgmi
Yeah, we were there way too many years. Our goal initially was to kill those responsible for 9/11. The so-called "War on terror" is a delusional concept. There will always be terrorists abroad, and as long as they are only threats to their respective countries and not an imminent threat to ours, we should not care all that much. If we are to do something, it should not be our sole responsibility to take care of it (ex. ISIS was a much bigger threat to Europe than us, yet we were the main force fighting them).

The lack of resistance to the Taliban was proof that our attempts to enforce liberal democracy were not widely-supported. People were not willing to die for that. They were, however, willing to die for a conservative sect of their religion. That should tell us that if democracy is ever going to come to the Middle East, that movement must be supported from the general populace first. The presence of American soldiers surely didn't change their minds.
#15
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Sixty Three years ago, the United States first sent combat troops into the Middle East. The July 1958 Marine landing in Beirut, Lebanon thus began the era of America’s now seemingly endless wars in the region. The 1958 episode has lessons for today. Backed up by three carrier battle groups, a Marine Corps battalion in full combat gear stormed a beach near Beirut on July 15, 1958. At its peak there were almost 15,000 Marines and Army troops ashore in Lebanon. At the same time, British paratroopers deployed to Amman, Jordan in a coordinated Western intervention intended to prop up friendly governments in the region.

It's time to get the hell out of the Middle East.
#16
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@Vader
Shame on Biden and his frauds
Right, because the 20 year failure spanning 4 administrations to train the Afghan government to protect and secure its own country occurred all in 6 months.
#17
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@FLRW
nothing new the US has screwed over so many countries especially in the middle east and latin america
#18
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@drlebronski
Ah, well, perhaps you can join the Taliban with their death to America chants. Don't forget to renounce your citizenship first, if you're an American, or you may be liable for treason.
#19
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@dfss9788
lol wtf?? any critisism of american intervention destroying countries=taliban.

#20
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heres something interesting to consider:


the poverty rate for afghanis increased the longer the US was there and the government was in power.

maybe people WANT the taliban as their lives only got worse over time
#21
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@drlebronski
Ask yourself why you're so ready to post information that makes America the target of criticism. It's probably because you don't like it. Well if you don't like it, there's the door. BTW, how many Americans died to stop the Nazis and imperial Japan? How many Americans died to keep South Korea from being overrun by the communists? What would the world look like today if America didn't do those things? You tell me. 
#22
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@dfss9788
never denied any of those things??
#23
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@ILikePie5
Ya by May 1st. It’s August. So who again violated that deal?
Cmon MAN!

8 months isn't nearly enough time for sleepy Joe to come out with a plan other than fuck Trump.
#24
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@n8nrgmi
Here is a cool snuff video of desperate Afghans falling off Biden transport planes.

#25
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cool?
#26
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@n8nrgmi
Afghanistan was an illogical knee jerk reaction to the Twin Towers attack, which really had nothing to do with Afghanistan in the first place.

A stupid fiasco of the USA's and (shamefully) it's Allies own making.

Nothing whatsoever taken on board from the previous Russian debacle, or the USA's previous failed attempts to meddle in Asian affairs.


And who arms the Taliban and who previously armed the Taliban?.......D'oh.


All that Afghanistan has "fallen" from, is from one chaos into another.

And Western and Eastern Super-Powers will retire to their own ideological corners, and posture..... Whilst a nation of Third World Tribal  Bandits sort things out in their own traditionally fanatical way.

It was always going to happen.


Did history teach us nothing?

Or were we just not paying attention?
#27
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@zedvictor4
The Afghans will typically resort to corruption, but with the Taliban's tight hold on Islam, Afghanistan will soon turn into another Islamic state. I think the question is how US-educated Afghan's women's rights activists will survive such a barbaric reversion. IMHO, from the interviews I saw, they're too loyal. Afghanistan can't be saved. They should leave and search for a western country that share their values. 

#28
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@MarkWebberFan
Yes.

But Afghanistan is tribal and feudal.

So I doubt that the Taliban will be able to bring any sort of stability to the region.


Who's going to start arming the Northern Warlords and their acolytes?
#29
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@MarkWebberFan
Afghanistan was actually a decent country pre-sharia. Taliban has fucked it up. This isn't Biden's fault, it's that the country itself is so corrupt now and deeply controlled by Taliban that it has caved in completely.

The only way to stop it would require Bushes and Reagan to have been kinder to Pakistan, so that Pakistan would help US help it and the Taliban be stamped out. Unfortunately,Bush Jr. sent drones to kill Pakistani families (including children) based on any intel and excuse he could get (oh, he sent more than one believe me).

Pakistan will never ever forgive this. Actually he missed the true leades, only hitting maybe two significant Taliban figures.

Pakistan also resents the Taliban but it can't resist them anymore without outside help and is jaded and stubborn so won't accept help from US and India.
#30
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@Dr.Franklin
the poverty rate for afghanis increased the longer the US was there and the government was in power.
OMG, I agree with Dr.Franklin!