Fast Food Mafia DP1

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Earth
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@ILikePie5
Wylted thinks any shenanigans with votes is a vote stealer. Do you expect me to just let Wylted imply I had something to do with his vote? Not that it matters because Sups seems to have corrected the error.
Earth
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suspicious I lose my vote when earth is L1
Like this is what Wylted said. However I am supposed to interpret Wylted's post, this to me implies that Wylted finds it odd that when I am at L1, his vote is lost. So clearly the conclusion is that there is a role at play. That was my mindset so to why Wylted thinks I am a vote stealer. Wylted's obsessed with voting roles.
ILikePie5
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@Earth
Wylted thinks any shenanigans with votes is a vote stealer. Do you expect me to just let Wylted imply I had something to do with his vote? Not that it matters because Sups seems to have corrected the error.
But he didn’t imply you had something to do with it. He pinged me and just made an observation that he couldn’t vote for you at L1. He never accused you of being a vote stealer or anything like that.


ILikePie5
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@Earth
Like this is what Wylted said.
Ya he said it to me in a form of observation 

However I am supposed to interpret Wylted's post, this to me implies that Wylted finds it odd that when I am at L1, his vote is lost.
What isn’t odd about that. But it has nothing to do with you being a vote stealer

So clearly the conclusion is that there is a role at play. That was my mindset so to why Wylted thinks I am a vote stealer. Wylted's obsessed with voting roles.
Sure there is a role at play. He didn’t blame you though - just the fact that it was happening
ILikePie5
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My vote is staying on Earth. We don’t have much to lose in terms of numbers. The odds are just so low statistically.
Wylted
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are we really doing this, this dp?

Is anyone a doctor or a watcher?

If so don't hold back, we can lynch him right now.

Unless earth is CCed by a body guard a watcher or a doctor, than I see no reason to proceed since every game usually has one and only one protective role
MisterChris
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Is anyone a doctor or a watcher?

If anyone is either of these roles do NOT cc. It's shortsighted and will benefit mafia tremendously
Lunatic
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@Earth
Sups seemingly confirmed the non existence of 3rd parties. Are 3rd parties not in meta in DART anymore?
They are occasionally used. TBH  we don't have the player count these days to really balance them in properly while also being able to afford to scum players in a team. If we were to get like 11 player games you could make a balance argument for 2 scum, 1 third rest town, but even then I am not a huge fan of that balancing. I am not a fan of themin general really. Third party generally is a super easy win or a super difficult win with rarely any middle ground in my experience. 
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
Unvote

So far, I'd have to agree with Discipulus_Didicit that Wylted is looking the most scummy. I was waiting to see how he'd respond to the pressure he's received so far, and though he hasn't been particularly defensive, it does seem as though he's refusing to directly respond to DD and is being pretty scattershot with his choices for a lynch, picking Oro first without any reasoning (and not responding to me when I asked him to justify it, though I will note that it's a little odd that Oro's usual wincon post came up so late in his posting), and then sussing Pie and me for no reason other than a gut reaction. Coming from anyone else, he would be an easy choice for a lynch, but past experience with Wylted has me second-guessing a choice to push a lynch on him, since he often exhibits anti-town behaviors and jumps around on lynches, especially in the early game. That being said, right now, he's the only person who have any suspicions of so far, so he'll be my vote for the time being.

VTL Wylted
I don't really like this vote, mostly because you highlighted the exact issue with it's reasoning yet voted because their wasn't any other options. At this point I don't know what you were expecting to get out of wylted by voting for him. Kind of a wasteful vote, with a bit of convoluted reasoning. Disc's original suspicions do make a mountain out of a molehill (which is fine DP1), but even when he pinged me to join his wagon I was like "no that's some next level bad reasoning". 
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
This is literally what Oro does every game. It doesn’t matter if it’s against the spirit of it, I’d sus him immediately if he didn’t do it. Saying it pissed you off doesn’t really justify it, nor does pointing out that it’s less useful in this game. It’s DP1, dude. We’re all spitballing at this stage, but for some reason, you chose to call him out specifically for behavior that is not at all unusual.
Wylted isn't a usual player... How many games have we played with him since he's been back?

As for Disc, your response to him in post 23 wasn’t particularly responsive. If claims mean nothing, then there’s no basis for you as town to seek a mass claim to get them. And just because it’s difficult to make connections between roles and characters doesn’t mean it’s unreasonable to expect that some people may be able to sort character claims by those that are likely to have PRs and those that aren’t. Difficulty resulting from weak justifications makes it harder for scum to use the info, but not impossible. How does town benefit?
I mean when he claimed he said it doesn't yeild benefit or hurt...
Wylted
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@MisterChris
one town CC to catch scum is a fair trade. People need to stop thinking roles matter. 
Lunatic
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pie's post 73 gets him town points from me
MisterChris
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OK I'm back let's do this.

No one right now particularly stands out as SCUM to me, so I'm going to go the POE route and see where we end up.

TOWN-lean (fairly confident)

  • Oromagi - When Oro is SCUM his sole strat is to disappear. He has said so himself, stating he does this because he is not a talented SCUM player. So far, Oro has been scumhunting fairly actively. I'm pretty confident he's TOWN. 
  • D_D - I'm not quite sure how he normally acts as TOWN but his sus on Wylted was more justified (targeting the fact Wylted wanted TOWN to claim) than Whiteflame's and he's been pretty active with his scumhunting and giving good contributions.
  • iLikePie5 - pro-TOWN force, refocusing TOWN after the Wylted crap.
  • Lunatic - from what little he's posted he has stayed pro-TOWN I think, especially with beating me to pointing out Whiteflame's behavior as I'll get more into below.
Neutral

  • Speedrace - The fact he never showed until he started receiving pressure is fishy, could possibly reflect being a part of a SCUM chat on Discord (after all he admits he only showed due to a Discord notif). However I'm also aware of the fact he's otherwise AWOL on the site and Supa asked him if he wanted to join over Discord, so ultimately my read is null. There's really not much to analyze from him. I like the fact he questions the Wylted lynch and refuses to hop on immediately.
  • Wylted - Just standard Wylted shenanigans throughout the game that really don't reflect alignment either way. The only thing that gives me pause is his bright idea of the DOC and WATCHER (if present) to out themselves. Another product of pure impulse, or a strategic SCUM move? He gets a FoS from me.
  • Earth - He's defensive but he was just the same during the TUF Villains game and what-do-ya-know he was TOWN. Don't think it indicates affiliation either way. Unless he gets CC'd by a protective role (which I still think is short-sighted), he is neutral with me.

Slight SCUM-lean

  • Whiteflame - As SCUM I'd think he'd be more supportive of Wylted's suggestion for everyone to claim, and meekly back down and reverse his position should the rest of TOWN disagree. However, Whiteflame's vote on Wylted is interesting to me. Whiteflame has observed Wylted do literally the same thing before for the exact reason Wylted stated... "It was an annoyed emotional vote. I also knew it was pointless, so might as well remove it at some point." It was pretty obvious to me this was standard Wylted just as we've encountered him the past 3-4 games. Like I said before, he is impulsive and doesn't really think his decisions through much. Whiteflame knows this. Wylted's done crazy gladiator gambits and Whiteflame never batted an eye. The fact that Wylted did this indicates pretty much nothing should be common knowledge among us all at this point. Whiteflame's sole saving grace is the fact he seems to be voting Wylted as an early activity-generator... "right now, he's the only person who have any suspicions of so far, so he'll be my vote for the time being." A problem though is it took him a while to relent pressure. He really only relented when TOWN agreed Wylted was just being Wylted and moved on. Now, to be clear, this is all could easily be overanalyzing minute details, but Whiteflame does retain a FoS from me. 
  • Polygot - Chimed in seconding Whiteflame's assessment against claiming early. Other than this he's been AWOL. I think it's worth pressuring him.

    VTL Polygot. Please claim. 


MisterChris
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@Wylted
one town CC to catch scum is a fair trade. People need to stop thinking roles matter. 

You assume that if there are other protective roles it is certain Earth is SCUM when we do not know that is the case. Do not assume it would be unbalanced, we have no idea what roles SCUM have. Moreover, if we were wrong it could severely injure TOWN in the future. I think it is a bit short-sighted to encourage them to out themselves now. 


MisterChris
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@Polyglot
Come back and claim.
MisterChris
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
Come back bois we got a few hours left. 
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@Earth
@Wylted
@Discipulus_Didicit
@Speedrace
Cmonnnnnnnnnnnnn
oromagi
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@Polyglot
UNVOTE

VTL Polyglot
whiteflame
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@Lunatic
I don't really like this vote, mostly because you highlighted the exact issue with it's reasoning yet voted because their wasn't any other options. At this point I don't know what you were expecting to get out of wylted by voting for him. Kind of a wasteful vote, with a bit of convoluted reasoning. Disc's original suspicions do make a mountain out of a molehill (which is fine DP1), but even when he pinged me to join his wagon I was like "no that's some next level bad reasoning". 
I suppose I get that this is a problem if I tilt my head enough, but I'll note that the reasoning I gave included an explanation for why Wylted, in particular, was an uncertain vote for me when it's based on odd behavior. I was hoping to see how he'd respond to pressure, since my recollection of our experience with him in previous games is that he has some pretty distinct responses as scum vs. town. Maybe that was just in that particular game, but I've noticed that he tends to make strange moves when either he's being pressured. The defensiveness stood out to me at first, but his eventual admission that he just did this on a whim alleviated those concerns.

Wylted isn't a usual player... How many games have we played with him since he's been back?
I admitted this in the very post where I VTL'd him. Fully admitted that I was still trying to separate the unusual for all of us from the unusual for Wylted.

I mean when he claimed he said it doesn't yeild benefit or hurt...
Which is why I found it odd that he was pushing, however lightly, for more claims.

Wylted
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@MisterChris
You assume that if there are other protective roles it is certain Earth is SCUM when we do not know that is the case
It moves him into the most likely scum pile, which is enough to lynch. 

I like how so many people thi k I was supporting a mass claiming. If you have tips for how I can communicate more clearly please let me know. 

I also just told somebody that they should reconsider fostering, because they were a beautiful weak single 25 year old tiny girl.  I told her to reco sider fostering because troubled kids for example 16 year old troubled boys with criminal records pose a threat to raping her.i have seen rapes while in foster care, so they definitely happen. Yet she somehow took this statement and others listening, randomly thought I said all foster kids are rapists, when my statement is true even if less than 1% are rapists. 

Are all people just generally stupid or somehow my fault
Wylted
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@whiteflame
address my last post. Why do people misunderstand me?
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the justification for poly is reasonable. 

Unvote vyl poly
whiteflame
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@MisterChris
Whiteflame - As SCUM I'd think he'd be more supportive of Wylted's suggestion for everyone to claim, and meekly back down and reverse his position should the rest of TOWN disagree. However, Whiteflame's vote on Wylted is interesting to me. Whiteflame has observed Wylted do literally the same thing before for the exact reason Wylted stated... "It was an annoyed emotional vote. I also knew it was pointless, so might as well remove it at some point." It was pretty obvious to me this was standard Wylted just as we've encountered him the past 3-4 games. Like I said before, he is impulsive and doesn't really think his decisions through much. Whiteflame knows this. Wylted's done crazy gladiator gambits and Whiteflame never batted an eye. The fact that Wylted did this indicates pretty much nothing should be common knowledge among us all at this point. Whiteflame's sole saving grace is the fact he seems to be voting Wylted as an early activity-generator... "right now, he's the only person who have any suspicions of so far, so he'll be my vote for the time being." A problem though is it took him a while to relent pressure. He really only relented when TOWN agreed Wylted was just being Wylted and moved on. Now, to be clear, this is all could easily be overanalyzing minute details, but Whiteflame does retain a FoS from me. 
There's a lot here that doesn't make sense to me. You acknowledge that my actions would clearly fly in the face of anything I would try as scum. Hell, look two games ago and pretty much the only reason that Supa and I won that game was due to getting the vast majority of claims in DP1 and either getting or inferring the rest in the following DP. Why would I jeopardize an easy opportunity to get even a couple of extra claims as scum?

As for behavioral issues, I'll note that as soon as Wylted made that first statement, I responded:

"Honestly, if you had just said this off the bat, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

So, yes, I recognize that this is absolutely textbook Wylted, and shortly thereafter, I removed the vote (wouldn't say that a single vote on him was exacting much in the way of pressure, and it only took me a few hours to remove the vote). My issue was with the defensiveness from him and the other reasons he was providing for his choices. I wouldn't call this anything like that crazy gladiator gambit (which I arrived very late for and, I'll note, I was SCUM in that game - I'm pretty notoriously passive as scum, much to my own chagrin) - I'd say it initially appeared more akin to his play during the Ancient Roman Battles game where he was jumping around between targets with less than clear reasoning, where he ended up being scum.
Lunatic
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@Earth
Honestly we wasted this DP  so far because we spent like 3 pages just talking to Wylted. My impression of Wylted is that he often does stuff by his gut and says stuff without thinking. I'll have to comb through Oro's posts, but he seems engaged, as he been when he was Town.
If you feel like town is on a bad train (I agree wylted was a bad train) and you are town, it is your perrogative to take that train else where. Needless to say, null reads on every player do little to accomplish what you say you want.
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@Wylted
I'd say we misunderstand you largely because we don't feel like you're explaining your reasoning up front. You tend to do it in response to pressure, but I often have to wait to get some clarity on why you make a certain move. Honestly, the statement that there wasn't much benefit either way to everyone claiming didn't bother me too much, but voting Oro and taking your time to explain why (and spreading those reasons across different responses) didn't help your case very much from where I'm sitting. I'm growing to expect some of this as we play, but it still puts me on edge from time to time.

Also, unvote. Speed's relative lack of participation still seems odd to me, and I don't really have anyone else that stands out, but no one else seems all that interested in doing anything about it and I don't think getting a claim will accomplish much anyway.
Vader
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VOTE COUNT
Earth- (3/6)- iLikePie5, Disc, Speed
Speedrace-(1/6)- whiteflame
Polyglot (3/6)- MisterChris, Wylted, oromagi

ROUGHLY 2 HRS REMAIN
Wylted
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@whiteflame
Google high context languages like Japanese. English is a low context language, but my up bringing makes me have urges to communicate in a high context way. 

Wylted
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The earth lynch is not going to happen. Everyone figure out if poly is good enough to lynch. If yes do so
Lunatic
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@MisterChris
vtl poly

@ chris GMTA I was just thinking we should be voting poly here
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Slight scum reads:

Speedrace/ whiteflame 

Town reads:

Pie / wylted/ chris

Slight town:

disc

Null:

Poly / earth / oromagi