How Did Jesus Do It?

Author: Stephen

Posts

Total: 73
Topic's author
#1
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
Jesus , it has been agreed by some Christians  that Jesus resurrected as flesh and blood man.

So a recent question I have posed is- how did Jesus enter the closed and locked room?



"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIV



 How did he do it?
#2
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,617
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Stephen

It's like Albert Einstein said,  "the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
#3
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
lmao this is literally what i was talking about- you take a verse with zero context and make a basic objection to it
Topic's author
#4
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@FLRW
the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

Indeed FLRW, myths and magic and wizards and lions and tigers and bears OH MY!!
Topic's author
#5
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Imao this is literally what i was talking about- you take a verse with zero context and make a basic objection to it.

"Objection"!?  It's a fkn question you clown, and one that I cannot answer, Doc.  Can YOU!?

So with your opinion aside,Doc,  why do you not simply put it into context for me then and explain this sudden appearance. 

Some Christians and the bible  confirmed that a  man of flesh and blood appears in a locked room, how did he pull it off? 



when your'e ready....

#6
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
How did Jesus walk through walls in his resurrected body?  

What a great question? Why don't you produce a resurrected body for us to consider the question?  

Oh wait - you can't. 

Here is another question for you? Did Jesus ever walk through a wall in his non-resurrected body? 

I suppose you think he had secret tunnels or perhaps he was a ghost or perhaps people were hallucinating or perhaps he was someone else and slipped in besides everyone.  LOL!.  The answers you have to resort to when you have to deny the supernatural.  But hey that is your bug to bear. 

Thankfully, not all of us have to be constricted by definitions that give us no wriggle room.   

What do we know about resurrected bodies? Not a great deal.  This is true. Yet Jesus needed to eat after he was resurrected.  He was physical enough at times for people to touch him.  His body was pierced both by a sword and nails.   It may be well that his heart had collapsed by the spear as well.  Yet, he was alive and seen by hundreds of contemporaries.  And then interestingly enough,  he disappeared before their eyes in front of two disciples.  And then he was back at Jerusalem pretty quick.  All these things suggest that the resurrected body - as opposed to a non-resurrected body had powers that were different.  Not only that - he also ascended into the clouds.  I do not know how anyone reading these stories would deny the supernatural element.   I don't particularly care whether you believe the narratives. That is a completely different issue.   But the narratives themselves are pretty clear that Jesus in his resurrected body had the power to disappear in front of people's eyes.   

And this is not to forget that Jesus a dead man - rose from the dead.  It matters not whether you believe the stories Stephen, but to deny what the narratives are saying is just plain dishonest.  
Topic's author
#7
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
How did Jesus walk through walls in his resurrected body?  

Indeed how did this man said to have been brought to back life after stinking and rotting in his rich friends tomb simply get into the locked room as spoken of  in THE BIBLE?  And you obviously do not know how Jesus a flesh and blood man managed to get into a locked room.

Why don't you produce a resurrected body for us to consider the question? 

I don't have to produce the dead or live body of the Christ. The question is clear enough to consider. Or are you suggesting that Jesus didn't return from the dead as THE BIBLE claims?

Leave this thread unless you have a plausible idea how this may have happened. 





#8
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Same way other people see spirits.
#9
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Stephen
Objection"!?  It's a fkn question you clown, and one that I cannot answer, Doc.  Can YOU!?

So with your opinion aside,Doc,  why do you not simply put it into context for me then and explain this sudden appearance. 

Some Christians and the bible  confirmed that a  man of flesh and blood appears in a locked room, how did he pull it off? 



when your'e ready....

Because he is Jesus Chirst the Lord and Savior, thats why Stephen
Topic's author
#10
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Objection"!?  It's a fkn question you clown, and one that I cannot answer, Doc.  Can YOU!?

So with your opinion aside,Doc,  why do you not simply put it into context for me then and explain this sudden appearance. 

Some Christians and the bible  confirmed that a  man of flesh and blood appears in a locked room, how did he pull it off? 



when your'e ready....

Because he is Jesus Chirst the Lord and Savior, thats why Stephen

And in what context you do mean? How does it explain the question? Christians here seem to believe Jesus was simply resurrected from the dead as a  flesh and blood man, and  the bible seems to agree.

Saying Jesus was a saviour etc means nothing ,I know Jesus was sent as a saviour to the Jews but this doesn't explain how Jesus appeared in a room that was locked from the inside.

And you still have to put this verse into context after you accused me of taking it out of context. So when you are ready.


"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIV


#11
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Stephen
maybe he was a ghost i dont really know
#12
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
How did Jesus walk through walls in his resurrected body?  

What a great question? Why don't you produce a resurrected body for us to consider the question?  

Oh wait - you can't. 

Here is another question for you? Did Jesus ever walk through a wall in his non-resurrected body? 

I suppose you think he had secret tunnels or perhaps he was a ghost or perhaps people were hallucinating or perhaps he was someone else and slipped in besides everyone.  LOL!.  The answers you have to resort to when you have to deny the supernatural.  But hey that is your bug to bear. 

Thankfully, not all of us have to be constricted by definitions that give us no wriggle room.   

What do we know about resurrected bodies? Not a great deal.  This is true. Yet Jesus needed to eat after he was resurrected.  He was physical enough at times for people to touch him.  His body was pierced both by a sword and nails.   It may be well that his heart had collapsed by the spear as well.  Yet, he was alive and seen by hundreds of contemporaries.  And then interestingly enough,  he disappeared before their eyes in front of two disciples.  And then he was back at Jerusalem pretty quick.  All these things suggest that the resurrected body - as opposed to a non-resurrected body had powers that were different.  Not only that - he also ascended into the clouds.  I do not know how anyone reading these stories would deny the supernatural element.   I don't particularly care whether you believe the narratives. That is a completely different issue.   But the narratives themselves are pretty clear that Jesus in his resurrected body had the power to disappear in front of people's eyes.   

And this is not to forget that Jesus a dead man - rose from the dead.  It matters not whether you believe the stories Stephen, but to deny what the narratives are saying is just plain dishonest.  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6522/post-links/280614
Are you going to address this post or are you going to report me again? Why are you so opposed to considering what the narratives ACTUALLY say as opposed to whitewashing them from your "non-supernatural" liberal position?  Let the bible speak for itself - well except when it disagrees with Stephen's prejudiced narrative.  


#13
janesix
janesix's avatar
Debates: 12
Posts: 2,049
3
3
3
janesix's avatar
janesix
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
Why do you ask silly questions?
Topic's author
#14
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@janesix
Why do you ask silly questions?

Can you explain why this biblical episode is silly and why my question is to you silly, Jayne. 
Its simple enough;  a once flesh and blood man believed  to have been dead came back to life as flesh and blood man and is said to have appeared to his disciples out of nowhere into a locked room.    

If you don't know then simply say so, Jayne.
Topic's author
#15
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret


Are you going to address this post or are you going to report me again?

See post #7


Topic's author
#16
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
maybe he was a ghost i dont really know

That's better , Doc. And neither do I. 

By Ghost, Doc, do you mean a spirit?


#17
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
How Did Jesus Do It?
He didn't. 
Topic's author
#18
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Bones
How Did Jesus Do It?
He didn't. 

Do you mean that it didn't happen at all, Bones?

#19
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@Stephen
How Did Jesus Do It?
He didn't. 
Do you mean that it didn't happen at all, Bones?
I didn't read the post but looking at the sentence how did Jesus do it, using my knowledge that the subject, being Jesus, doesn't exist, I draw the conclusion that whatever this imaginary man did probably didn't happen in the objective world. 

Topic's author
#20
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Bones
And that is a fair and reasonable point to make there , Bones.

   For myself I accept that there could well have been a man named Jesus that believed himself to be king of the Jews and  that the Romans put him to death for crimes against the state of Rome, along with another man of similar name, Jesus Barabbas. But I draw the line at, and I simply refuse to, accept the so called "miracles".

So we are almost on the same page.
#21
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@Stephen
For myself I accept that there could well have been a man named Jesus that believed himself to be king of the Jews and the that the Romans put him to death for crimes against the state of Rome, along with another man of similar name, Jesus Barabbas. But I draw the line at, and I simply refuse to, accept the so called "miracles".
I think we are on the same page. When people refer to Jesus, they attach connotations such as Godly and miraculous. I accept that Jesus, as a terrible misunderstood mortal man could exist bu the essence of Jesus, that is that he is a God conceived of a virgin mother, is simply untrue. 


Topic's author
#22
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Bones
 I accept that Jesus, as a terrible misunderstood mortal man could exist bu the essence of Jesus, that is that he is a God conceived of a virgin mother, is simply untrue. 

I agree. And this is why I like to question theists on the scriptures. I don't care that they have a faith , it is what they have faith in that draws me, such as these ambiguous half told stories that make up the Jesus story and the myth that has been cloaked around a very human being by other very human beings..

They sure get  arsey about it though. They hate that I highlight these contradictory and enigmatic verses in their "god given" book.
#23
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,217
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Born Baby jesus.  
Teen jesus.
Adult jesus. 
Then Dead jesus.
Then a GOD* .       (  this is along the same lines as becoming a saint. )  
Actually I'm not sure about that.  


So its the death thing.

No.
No.

Its the resurrection thing. 
3 days spent in resurr state must of been freaky. 
( let me now find out how long a FULL BODY RESURRECTION TAKES.
GOOGLE ( the time a average  adult male body takes to resurrect ) 
3 days to me seems a little to long.  This could in fact be a lie. 

Sooooooooooo    Jesus could enter unlocked rooms because he was dead.

The best thing to happen to Jesus was him dying. 
Wtf ? 
Thats horrible.  
But jesus did miracles as normal life jesus. 
Actually I'm going to PASS

* according to half of you lot.  Or a quarter. 
 
Nice question man. 


#24
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,217
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Well I'll be. 

It does take approximately 3 days for a full body resurrection. 

 
Topic's author
#25
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
3 days to me seems a little to long.  This could in fact be a lie. 

I think three hours is " little too long " too, Deb.
#26
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Stephen
sure.
#27
janesix
janesix's avatar
Debates: 12
Posts: 2,049
3
3
3
janesix's avatar
janesix
3
3
3
-->
@Stephen
You know the Bible isn't literal, yet you expect people to answer your questions as if it were literal. In other words, you are playing games.
#28
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
I gave a plausible explanation. 

I said that the resurrected body enabled him to do this.  

I suggested that there is clearly a difference between a resurrected body and a non-resurrected one.  

Resurrected bodies are still flesh and body. They are not spirit.  And yet, they are more than a non-resurrected one.  

Hence, Jesus needed to eat food. Yet Jesus was able to disappear before the disciple's very eyes.  And then to appear some 10 miles later within a few moments. 

What is the alternative plausible idea Stephen?  That is what you need to produce. 
Topic's author
#29
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin wrote:
maybe he was a ghost i dont really know

Stephen wrote:
That's better , Doc. And neither do I.  By Ghost, Doc, do you mean a spirit?

Dr.Franklin wrote: sure.

   Well you haven`t even read this story then have you Doc? You see THE BIBLE categorically denies this and from Jesus own lips too. You see, I have read the story Doc.

Jesus said "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Luke+24%3A39&version=KJV

So now is all I expect from you Doc is your usual default and  for you to go into your complete denial mode  even as to what JESUS HIMSELF has to say on the matter.
  And before you accuse me AGAIN of taking a verse out of context, I suggest for the second time, that you put Jesus' words into the correct context and show me how Jesus is NOT saying he is NOT spirit  and is NOT saying he is flesh and bone.



And you still have to put this verse into context after you accused me of taking it out of context.


"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIV


So when you are ready.


#30
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,083
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Probably by drinking too many spirits.