It's time for yet another prediction of the return of Jesus! This time, it's American pastor Kenton Beshore who claims he has hard-and-fast evidence that the rapture will happen in 2021. His credibility is only slightly undercut by the fact that this is his second try: his first end of the world was supposed to happen in 1988. And it... didn't.
Jesus Is Not God
Posts
Total:
97
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@Stephen
u can't show exact language that says he isn't God in the bible. all you can show is your interpretation of ambiguous verses. i can show exact language that says he is God in the bible. that means you are just finding problems that dont exist and twisting things around. your stance is at best debateable.... but it's the weakest position to take. i'm all about biblical critique as a liberal christian myself... but in this case, you should pick a different hill to die on.
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@n8nrgmi
Jesus is not God.
Matthew 27:46 ESV / And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
@n8nrgmi
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n8nrgmi,
YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANCE AT YOUR EMBARRASSING EXPENSE AGAIN IN POST #29: "the bible has exact verses that say Jesus is God."
What part of the term "C-O-N-T-R-A-D-I-C-T-I-O-N" don't you comprehend?! Since you have blown the lid off of the fact that there're passages that say Jesus is ONLY the Son of God, and conversely, there are passages that explicitly show that Jesus is ONLY Yahweh God incarnate, therefore where there is CONTRADICTIONS, there are FALSEHOODS, and where there are FALSEHOODS, there are LIES because both propositions cannot be TRUE at the same time! Understood?
Furthermore, you now have called JESUS A LIAR when His inspired words state the following: "EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5) Get it, when you take the ungodly position of "giving the benefit of the doubt" that Jesus is God, where it should NEVER be this position, but only an ABSOLUTE!
N8nrgmi, what you should have done is to NOT enter Stephens thread upon said topic, where the ever so Bible Ignorant Runaways TRADESECRET and FAUXLAW knew not to enter, but to only RUN AWAY from it to save themselves further embarrassment by I and others making them the continued Bible fools that they are if they entered into the conversation of this topic! Learn from these two RUNAWAYS next time, and HIDE like they do on topics like this one!
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@FLRW
that's not a clear statement that Jesus is not God. if he's both the son of God, and God, then it's fitting for him to petition God sometimes.
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@BrotherDThomas
i'm the devil's minion. i can't help it, all the evil stuff i post.
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
@n8nrgmi
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n8nrgmi,
YOUR HYPOCRITICAL QUOTE TO STEPHEN IN POST #32: "....you should pick a different hill to die on."
The ONLY pseudo-christian that has DIED upon any hill, is in fact YOU because of the following links by me alone showing your complete Bible stupidity upon the topic at hand, bar none!
N8NRGMI, truthfully, are you trying to be more Bible stupid and ignorant than TRADESECRET and the #1 Bible fool FAUXLAW?
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also, if ya'll's think the bible has two stances on this, then your position should be that the bible contradicted itself. not that the bible says Jesus isn't God. ive shown verses that say he is God, so the rest is up to you to make your positions to make sense.
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@BrotherDThomas
hopefully i'm not worse than ethang. that would deal me a death blow that i couldn't recover from.
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@n8nrgmi
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n8nrgml,
YOUR LAUGHABLE QUOTE ONCE AGAIN, POST #35: "that's not a clear statement that Jesus is not God. if he's both the son of God, and God, then it's fitting for him to petition God sometimes. "
What did you just say, and supposedly kept a straight face when doing so? Under your comical premise quote above, if Jesus is the Son and God at the same time, then Jesus as a human walking around as the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, HE WOULD NOT HAVE TO PETITION HIMSELF because He would know first hand to begin with of the answer!!!!! Jesus to N8nrgml, H-E-L-L-O?!
Once again, you give credence to the following totally comical and irrational image of Jesus doing exactly what you proposed, BLASPHEME!
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/5b/5ba5cc51e454e5e326b51aa0265f889d5f7787d6c4782f1dd7d78fd195aa3a4a.jpg
N8nrgml, are you done yet in making the readers of this thread LAUGH at you, and at your expense? :(
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@BrotherDThomas
i'm incompetent and evil... i'd ask for you to pray for me, but i'm beyond redemption.
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@Stephen
There are few passages from John gospel only indicating that Jesus is god.
True and False. John does indicate Jesus is God. But so do many other places in the Bible. Paul indicates it on many occasions. Luke does in Acts. I have no reason to doubt that the other passages indicate that Jesus is God as well. Surely Mark's picture of Jesus walking on Water, stilling the storm, and forgiving sins all disclose that Jesus is divine. The accusation by the leaders of the Jews that he committed blasphemy - is telling. The Jews are hardly like to accuse him of blasphemy - of making himself to be God, unless he was suggesting he was. You can put all of your spin - as you will - but that is just your interpretation.
The other gospel refer to him as being only a "son of god" which is nothing more than a title of the times, and today as a matter of fact. Indeed, the whole nation of Israel were said by god to be his own and special children. Also Jesus is clearly called the "son of man". So who is making Jesus out to be a god?
This is your opinion. An opinion you cannot prove. Your own words prove your contradiction. He is "only" called a son of god. Yet he is also called "son of man. Which is it? Is he "only" called son of god or is he called son of man? Your logic is as weak and confused as your argument.
Why are the other gospels silent on the matter of Jesus being a god? And doesn't all of Christianity rest on this ambiguous claim.
Well you state this. You prove it. I deny it. But it is your assertion.
Christianity does not rest on ambiguous claim. Strawman. You are very good at them. Aren't you?
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@n8nrgmi
the bible has exact verses that say Jesus is God. it has ambiguous evidence that he might not be God. so how do you reconcile these?
It also has verses that god says he isn't god too, doesn't it. And it is not for me to reconcile, that is for the theist. I am simply highlighting the ambiguity that is the the bible.
it must be the case that the bible says he is God, cause there is concrete language in that regard and the ambiguous language can only be used to support that.
So it is unreliable as any sort of testament or fact. Or any kind of "gospel truth".
i understand that you dont follow the bible as error free or whatever.
Correct. I don't The bible is simply made up of unreliable ambiguous half stories. Example; what happened to Lazarus the most famous resurrected character in the bible next to Jesus? Why did the Jews want to kill him. What had he done in their eyes that warranted a death sentence death? This is what I mean by unreliable ambiguous half stories.
but if you are holding out the standard of what the bible says, and giving it the benefit of the doubt that it's comprehensible,
I am saying that it is simply a confusing mass of contradictions and I have proven this to be the case many times in many of my thread. And isn't it Christians that have set the bible standards and that have been preaching from it for over 2,000 years? Because it is not me, my friend.
you can't then back out of that proposition just because you dont like the results.
What results.
you can reject the bible because you dont like,
I can do what I like. But not liking it wouldn't be one of the reasons that I reject it. I have better reasons for rejecting it in the state that it has come down to us over the millennia and reject it on the grounds that I disagree with how it has been preached by Chaplains, Pastors and Priests for the last 2,000 years.
but dont pretend it supports your position on this.
I pretend nothing. I don't have to. And if you are a devote Christian, then problems that arise from these unreliable and ambiguous half stories in scripture are all your problems, not mine.
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@Tradesecret
There are few passages from John gospel only indicating that Jesus is god.True and False. John does indicate Jesus is God. But so do many other places in the Bible.
Lets see em Revered
Paul indicates it on many occasions.
Lets see em Reverend
Luke does in Acts.
Lets see em Reverend.
I have no reason to doubt that the other passages indicate that Jesus is God as well.
Lets see em Reverend. In fact why do you not simply show all of these other verses where al the other gospels aside John say or indicate that Jesus is god? Think of the time we will save , Reverend "Tradey"
The other gospel refer to him as being only a "son of god" which is nothing more than a title of the times, and today as a matter of fact. Indeed, the whole nation of Israel were said by god to be his own and special children. Also Jesus is clearly called the "son of man". So who is making Jesus out to be a god?This is your opinion.
Stop being so bible ignorant!!!! Jesus is referred as being - a son of god, before he was born.
In Luke 1:35, in the Annunciation, before the birth of Jesus, the angel tells Mary that her child "shall be called the Son of God". In Luke 4:41"
“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Mark14:62 and there are another 30+ verses that refer to him as being the "" son of Man"
Why are the other gospels silent on the matter of Jesus being a god? And doesn't all of Christianity rest on this ambiguous claim.Well you state this. You prove it. I deny it. But it is your assertion.
I cannot show you what isn't there stupid! And unlike many Christians, including you, I am not in the habit of rewriting these scripture.
You are simply running out of steam Reverend "Tradey" . And I will say with some confidence that your every rebuttal to me from this day will be that I am creating "strawman" arguments.... without ever explaining why you believe they are.
You are on your last legs, Reverend. Your other personas have deserted you. Dimwittim is finished and has deserted you and your vile friend that you have aspired to be like all of your days ethang5 is over and out, dead and buried.#76
I am expecting your vile true colours to appear any day now.
Get well soon Reverend "Tradey".
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TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a blatant habitual LIAR,
YOUR UTTERLY DUMBFOUNDED USE OF JESUS BEING DIVINE IN POST #42: " Surely Mark's picture of Jesus walking on Water, stilling the storm, and forgiving sins all disclose that Jesus is divine"
The following passage stated by none other than Jesus, states with specificity that anyone that believes in Him can also walk upon the water, and do other miracles like Jesus performed, get it continued Bible fool?!
JESUS STATED: “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father." (John 14:12)
Therefore, in your simpleton pathetic quote above, Jesus is no more "divine" than others performing miracles that Jesus did IF they believe in Him, whereas this passage above blatantly states that Jesus is the SON OF GOD, and NOT the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, when Jesus says "because I am going to the Father." Understood Bible fool, or do you need further simple deductions?
TRADESECRET, your Bible stupidity continues to show itself in your post #42, just like it did with you in throwing in the towel of defeat with me at the following link: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6316-the-meaning-of-death?page=4&post_number=77
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@Tradesecret
@BrotherDThomas
Its this simple Brother;
John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Acts 2:22 Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
Acts 2:3 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.
1 Corinthians 8:6 " yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
lets see how they reinterpret these verses to suite their agenda.
All the above show that Jesus THE MAN is not a god and totally separate from god. They show Jesus simply to be "the servant of god" .
and to crown it all from the lips of the messiah Jesus himself;
Luke 18:19. WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? JESUS ANSWERED. NO ONE IS GOOD- EXCEPT GOD ALONE"
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
Stephen, who is a Hell bound Atheist that knows more about the JUDEO-Christian Bible than any pseudo-christian upon this forum,
YOUR REVEALING AND TRUTHFUL QUOTE RELATIVE TO THE BIBLE FOOL TRADESECRET: "You are on your last legs, Reverend."
I would disagree with your statement above, whereas, the Bible fool TRADESECRET has already succumbed where there are no legs left because of their continued outright Bible stupidity and ignorance within this forum, as shown in your posts to him/her/unknown, and my post #45 above!
I just wish we knew in what gender at any time TRADESECRET actually is when we are making him/her/unknown the Bible fool that they are! Unfortunately, the links below showing different genders of TRADESECRET are ungodly, where they pertain to the ungodly act that TRADESECRET has had "Gender Reassignment Surgery, which goes against Jesus' words within the scriptures!!!" BLASPHEME!
Tradesecret as a male:
Tradesecret as a female:
Tradesecret now as an unknown:
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
@n8nrgmi
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Stephen, who is a Hell bound Atheist that knows more about the JUDEO-Christian Bible than any pseudo-christian upon this forum,
In addressing your blatant Biblical axioms of Jesus being ONLY the Son of Yahweh God, the ever so dumbfounded of the Bible TRADESECRET, and unfortunately N8NRGMI as well, are having a very hard time in understanding the term contradiction when they say that Jesus is God, and where we show that He is only the Son of God! As I stated before at their embarrassment, where there is CONTRADICTIONS, there are FALSEHOODS, and where there are FALSEHOODS, there are LIES because both propositions of Jesus' identity cannot be TRUE at the same time!
Relating to TRADESECRET and N8NRGMI shown above, what do they continue to do? They in turn remove one foot to insert the other again, and again, and again, and again, and again upon stating that Jesus is God, and have yet to explain away "which" outright contradiction of Jesus true modus operandi truly is! I know I would like that explained for sure, but it seemingly cannot be done and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath!
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@n8nrgmi
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n8nrgmi,
YOUR EQUIVALENT POST LIKE FAUXLAW DOES WHEN HE CANNOT REFUTE THE BROTHER D. IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER: "i'm incompetent and evil... i'd ask for you to pray for me, but i'm beyond redemption."
Yes, agreed, you are incompetent and evil, in the same vein as your biography page is as well when it remains to be NOTHING but a ZERO in its lack of content!
For Christ's sake, can't you scribble something down for your bio page for us to laugh at since you've been here over TWO YEARS, HELLO?? I know, get the equal Bible ignorant FAUXLAW to help you come up with something in guaranteeing great laughs at your expense and his! Yes?
We can all see that you are having a very hard time with Logic 101, in that the proposition of CONTRADICTIONS EQUAL FALSEHOODS, AND THEN FALSEHOODS EQUALS LIES is disturbing to you with the logic that Jesus has given you and expects you to use!
N8nrgmi, what does it feel like to be worshipping the JUDEO-Christian Bible that is built upon lies as explicitly shown in this thread ? Could you explain this and try and keep a straight face at the same time? Wanna "try?"
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@Stephen
Lets see em Reverend. In fact why do you not simply show all of these other verses where al the other gospels aside John say or indicate that Jesus is god? Think of the time we will save , Reverend "Tradey"
It's not my problem Stephen, it is yours. You go and do your own homework rather than speculating about something you know you cannot prove.
The other gospel refer to him as being only a "son of god" which is nothing more than a title of the times, and today as a matter of fact. Indeed, the whole nation of Israel were said by god to be his own and special children. Also Jesus is clearly called the "son of man". So who is making Jesus out to be a god?This is your opinion.Stop being so bible ignorant!!!! Jesus is referred as being - a son of god, before he was born.In Luke 1:35, in the Annunciation, before the birth of Jesus, the angel tells Mary that her child "shall be called the Son of God". In Luke 4:41"“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Mark14:62 and there are another 30+ verses that refer to him as being the "" son of Man"
And????? Where is the principle that if Jesus has a title it also prevents him from being divine? Sorry, you forgot to put down your prooftext. And you think that I'm ignorant.
Why are the other gospels silent on the matter of Jesus being a god? And doesn't all of Christianity rest on this ambiguous claim.Well you state this. You prove it. I deny it. But it is your assertion.I cannot show you what isn't there stupid! And unlike many Christians, including you, I am not in the habit of rewriting these scripture.
A convenient problem you have invented. You put something in the negative - know you can't argue from that point of view - and then attempt to get others to do your work for you - so that you can throw mud. Well sorry dear Stephen, you have cried wolf one to many times. No one cares. As for not rewriting the scriptures - that is your MO. You change everything to fit your secret narrative - the one that you belief in faith that is under the radar. LOL! You just ignore the plain text - unless it fits your narrative -
I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS AN UNDERLINING STORY IN THE NEW
TESTAMENT THAT THE GOSPEL WRITERS ARE DESPERATE TO HIDE. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/360/post-links/12346
I claim the bible is ambiguous, puzzling,vague and
enigmatic. It tells half stories. It hides details. It is hypocritical and at
times clearly and simply unbelievable. And it has sinister undertones. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/360/post-links/12611
The scripture says exactly what they say. But I want to know
what they MEAN by what it is saying. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/460/post-links/20189
three quotes - and there are many more - (And many thanks to the forum member who continues to feed me this) All of these reveal - that you don't care what the text says - it is only the meaning - the secret meaning underneath - the one you are inventing. Reading into the text.
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@BrotherDThomas
YOUR UTTERLY DUMBFOUNDED USE OF JESUS BEING DIVINE IN POST #42: " Surely Mark's picture of Jesus walking on Water, stilling the storm, and forgiving sins all disclose that Jesus is divine"The following passage stated by none other than Jesus, states with specificity that anyone that believes in Him can also walk upon the water, and do other miracles like Jesus performed, get it continued Bible fool?!JESUS STATED: “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father." (John 14:12)Therefore, in your simpleton pathetic quote above, Jesus is no more "divine" than others performing miracles that Jesus did IF they believe in Him, whereas this passage above blatantly states that Jesus is the SON OF GOD, and NOT the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, when Jesus says "because I am going to the Father." Understood Bible fool, or do you need further simple deductions?
Wow! You do surprise me sometimes - Mr Running Away Man. picture of the running man - Bing images
Here you have presented an argument. This is the first one in many posts. It must be getting hard on you to admit your stupidity all of the time. Or perhaps the young dimtim has exposed you once more.
Your argument is the following:
Jesus performed miracles.
Jesus also said - those who believe in me - will do greater works than me.
Therefore because Jesus did miracles - it does not make him divine, any more than those who believe in him will go miracles.
But let's examine this.
It seems that your argument is that doing a miracle does not mean you are divine. And I suppose given the fact that many people in the bible - who are not divine - do miracles - then it is not per se a sign that a miracle worker is divine. There is an element of truth in that. Yet it is only an element and not the whole. After all, if someone claiming to be god, could not miracles, then surely we would be able to dismiss that person as being god? But Jesus did miracles. Therefore he might be god - even according to your logic.
In other words, your argument does not disprove that Jesus is God. Your argument at best - proves only that others who are humans and not god can do miracles.
The second interesting thing about your argument - and which you have highlighted is that these humans have to "believe" in Jesus in order to do miracles. I find that fascinating.
Why is that Jesus is able to do these miracles? Who does he have to believe in? The humans have to believe in Jesus. Hence, they are not the source of power for their miracles. Yet Jesus - in relation to walking on water, stilling the storm, and forgiving sins - all seem to come from his own source of power. I wonder if you can actually see the difference. I doubt it - but I might as well throw it out there.
So - thank you for bringing this verse to our attention Dear Brother. Not only does it reveal that Jesus might be God. It also reveals that he is significantly different to ordinary humans - because they need him. But he does not need them.
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@Stephen
John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
I love this verse. Another verse that speaks of Jesus, the man.
Acts 2:22 Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
Absolutely. Even the verse says it - Jesus was a man.
Acts 2:3 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
Totally - Jesus - the man was made the messiah and Lord.
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.
Again, Jesus the servant - glorified by God, the Trinity.
1 Corinthians 8:6 " yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Totally agree. One God. One Christ.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
Again you make my point - ONE GOD. One mediator. Jesus the Man,
lets see how they reinterpret these verses to suite their agenda.All the above show that Jesus THE MAN is not a god and totally separate from god. They show Jesus simply to be "the servant of god" .and to crown it all from the lips of the messiah Jesus himself;
The Christian doctrine of Jesus has always been - Truly God - Truly Man.
None of the above reveal any different to this doctrine. Your interpretation - despite your lies that you never interpret is incorrect. Your interpretation here for the record is this "all the above show that Jesus THE MAN is not a god and totally separate from god. They show Jesus simply to be "the servant of god" .
Thank you for highlighting the traditional Christian doctrine that Jesus is fully man.
Luke 18:19. WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? JESUS ANSWERED. NO ONE IS GOOD- EXCEPT GOD ALONE"
Well interestingly, many commentators actually use this as an affirmation that Jesus is calling himself God. After all, he does not deny that he is good. Only that God alone is good. If he had said - I am not good - only God is good. Then perhaps you might have an argument. But it does not say that - you have to read into it with your magic interpretational skills to read underneath the text to what it is really saying. O to have your magical skills Stephen. LOL!
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@BrotherDThomas
i'm a special needs retard. what does it say about you that u r picking on a retard? i guess since u r the only TRUE christian here, it means that God has set his wrath upon me! the serial killer God is not opposed to torturing idiots like me. i suppose i should feel blessed, cause my agony in this life will only get me ready for the eternal torture and hellfire i am waiting for when i die.
spank me harder, brotherDThomas!
Can't be a God if you don't exist.
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@Tradesecret
John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”I love this verse. Another verse that speaks of Jesus, the man.
So you should. Jesus here is speaking as being clearly separate from god and "your god", Reverend.
Acts 2:22 Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.Absolutely. Even the verse says it - Jesus was a man.
Yes, an accreditation by god into the service of god . In the same fashion that you tell that you were accredited into the service of god, Reverend, "Tradey". I belive that it is referred to today as being "called" by god or simply "a calling" . You tell us the received "proper accreditation"#20
Acts 2:3 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”Totally - Jesus - the man was made the messiah and Lord.
Yes another reference to Jesus being a man, and not a god himself. A messiah is not a god but is only the servant of god , titled the son of god.. Jesus understood what that service entailed as did all other messiahs of the "age". And just like many of those before him, he failed in his calling, if the bible is to be believed. He failed to inherit the throne of David as his mother was promised by god he would. He failed to unite the Jewish tribes as was his mission, and he failed to rebuild the temple as he predicted he would.. because he was just a man and crucified as a man.
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.Again, Jesus the servant - glorified by God, the Trinity.
Nope! There is nothing in the verse to indicate a "trinity" as much as you would like there to be. It clearly states that Jesus the man was nothing more that a "servant of god" . A man called into the service of god. A man cannot be god and servant. Read your bible Reverend "Tradey"
1 Corinthians 8:6 " yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Totally agree. One God. One Christ.
Correct! One god and one anointed(Christos) into his service.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,Again you make my point - ONE GOD. One mediator. Jesus the Man,
I think my thread is making the point. I don't need you to make my points on my own thread Reverend. But yes. ONE god, and one mediator , a king anointed into the " service of" god , as I have been saying all along and as all these verses prove, Jesus was nothing more than a man chosen by god as all kings (and queens) are to do his bidding. so again, you agree that the man Jesus and god are completely separate.
lets see how they reinterpret these verses to suite their agenda.All the above show that Jesus THE MAN is not a god and totally separate from god. They show Jesus simply to be "the servant of god" .and to crown it all from the lips of the messiah Jesus himself;The Christian doctrine of Jesus has always been - Truly God - Truly Man.
I don't care what the Christian doctrine is , Reverend, I am telling you what the CHRISTIAN BIBLE "has always been"saying.
None of the above reveal any different to this doctrine.
But they do, show and prove an entirely different doctrine. they clearly show in THE BIBLE that Jesus the messiah "a man accredited by God" into his service. I have said that one cannot be a god and a servant of god. Read your bible, Reverend.
Your interpretation - despite your lies that you never interpret is incorrect.
These are not my interpretations at all Reverend . The verses are from scripture and they read very clearly that Jesus is a man, a messiah anointed by god into the "service of god". And if anything Reverend, either you are lying about the clear meaning of these verses, or THE BIBLE is. which is it?
Your interpretation here for the record is this "all the above show that Jesus THE MAN is not a god and totally separate from god. They show Jesus simply to be "the servant of god" .
let me tidy that up for you:
Your interpretation here for the record is this "all the above show that Jesus _ A_ MAN, is not a god and totally separate from god. They show Jesus simply to be "the servant of god" .
It is not my interpretation at all Reverend "Tradey", it is only what THE BIBLE clearly states.
(A) Thank you for highlighting the traditional Christian doctrine that Jesus is fully man.
Now you are being devious. And you are now denying your pervious statements above. You have said above that the "trinity" is the Christian doctrine
Tradesecret wrote: "Again, Jesus the servant - glorified by God, the Trinity."#52 But now you are saying the "christian doctrine is that "Jesus is fully man", see (A) above. Make your mind up Reverend.
What is he Reverend? fully man or a man with three personalities( like yourself).
And again, you have also said above; Trade secret wrote: "The Christian doctrine of Jesus has always been - Truly God - Truly Man".
So here again, you are saying that Jesus is "truly god, but those verse say different, don't they. You even thanked for highlighting the fact. See (A) above.
None of the above reveal any different to this doctrine.
They clearly show that Jesus is a man (as you have agreed many times now) not a god and you have agreed on that, and thanked me for it. See (A) above.
Luke 18:19. WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? JESUS ANSWERED. NO ONE IS GOOD- EXCEPT GOD ALONE"Well interestingly, many commentators actually use this as an affirmation that Jesus is calling himself God.
I don't care what "many commentators use it as " and they , like you, are stupid and they and you can use it for what the fk you and they like, it will still mean only what THE BIBLE says it means.
After all, he does not deny that he is good.
Well he does you clown! He says "NO ONE IS GOOD" and that ONLY GOD ALONE IS GOOD!
Jesus here , from his own mouth again clearly separates himself from god.
Only that God alone is good.
Correct !! Thereby separating himself from god because god ONLY (singular) is good.
If he had said - I am not good - only God is good. Then perhaps you might have an argument.
But he didn't did he.
He said it as he CLEARLY intended to be taken, by saying "NO ONE" singular.
This is simply you attempting to inject into scripture something that clearly isn't there or intended to be there. You are clutching a straws, Reverend "Tradey".
So to summarise. Jesus and the bible clearly show that Jesus is a man anointed into the service of god as kings of Israel were in those ancient time.
And lest we forget a just to throw the cat among the pigeons;
WE HAVE:
Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.’ ?
AND;
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’ ?
You are just no good at this Pastor.
Get well soon Revered. 😊
Since "God" is not a name, but a title, it seems obvious that a son of a god can also be a god. In fact, the title can be worn even prior to that son's mortal birth, as a spirit and not yet as a mortally, or immortally physical being. The argument, therefore, has little material [literally] relevance, apparent contradictions in the various gospels, notwithstanding.
@ Stephen
The cherrypick rises again.
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@fauxlaw
it seems obvious that a son of a god can also be a god
NOPE! You need to read who it is that Psalm 82:6 & John 10:34 is directed towards and then who it is that Jesus is actually speaking to consecutively, THEN it is obvious.
And with that comment you are saying that there are or can be more than one god at any one time..
And if that is the case, THE BIBLE does support you in this.
@ Stephen
And with that comment you are saying that there are or can be more than one god at any one time..
What as trial you are. Cherrypicking, always cherrypicking. A single verse? Verse 6? Alone? Why can't you read an entire passage; nay, read the entirety of the 66 books, and then draw from the entire fount? Why not? Because it is easier for Stephen to cherrypick. But, isn't the full harvest better than a single cherry pit?
How does your referenced Psalms chapter begin? How does your John reference begin? A cherrypicker climbs in through a window, or even plows through the wall, when there is a perfectly functioning door, and it is not even locked.
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@Tradesecret
.
TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a blatant ungodly LIAR,
YOUR COMICAL QUOTE POST #56 IN NOT BEING AN ABSOLUTE THAT JESUS IS ACTUALLY GOD! LOL: So - thank you for bringing this verse to our attention Dear Brother. Not only does it reveal that Jesus might be God. It also reveals that he is significantly different to ordinary humans - because they need him. But he does not need them.”
HUH? No, thank you in showing us your complete Bible stupidity AGAIN! LOL. You actually have the audacity to state specifically that “Jesus might be God” in John 14:12? Heads up Bible fool, in the verse in question of John 14:12, Jesus proves he is only the “son of God” where at the end of said verse He states: “I am going to the Father.” GET IT BIBLE FOOL? Jesus can’t be the Father (God) in this quoted verse because “he is going to the Father!” HELLO? Yes, as usual, you stepped in the proverbial poo again!
Seriously, I do enjoy watching you continue to dig holes for yourself that once within, you cannot get out of them and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath! Sorry you took the time once again in making a continued Bible fool of yourself regarding Jesus being God or not. :(
AGAIN for the umpteenth time, you seem to RUN AWAY from your admittance of outright being an ungodly SEXUAL DEVIANT as shown in the link herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5019-does-the-bible-require-corporal-punishment-of-children?page=1&post_number=25
Seriously, let myself and the membership help you with this Satanic act of yours so you can actually call yourself a Christian, otherwise, you are NOT a Christian, but a pseudo-christian at best in the name of Satan! Understood Bible fool? In you being a SEXUAL DEVIANT, don't you realize that you are Hell bound? “Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.” (Jude 1:7)
AGAIN, any word from you in when you are going to at least “try” and address a myriad of my posts to you, other than to RUN AWAY from them in front of the membership and Jesus (Hebrews 4:13), as the following links embarrassingly shows? WAIT, you can get the equally dumbfounded of the JUDEO-Christian Bible FAUXLAW to help you! LOL
NEXT RUNAWAY PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN RUNAWAY THAT IS EQUAL TO THE DUMBFOUNDED OF THE BIBLE TRADESECRET WILL BE ...?