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cristo71
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@oromagi
By equivocating, I mean that you are playing with the definition of a word (and not in a good way). To demonstrate the flaw in your use of the word “deadly” as applied to an event:

“Oh, my god, there was a deadly shooting today!”
“Oh, no! How many fatalities?”
“Well, none that we know of; several injuries though. But… the shooter clearly had deadly intent and used a deadly weapon. Ergo… the shooting was deadly! QED…”
*eyeroll*

To reiterate, I don’t deny that the riot was deadly. I am merely pointing out that the only *homicide* was one of the *rioters*. Here is what wiki has to say under “Casualties”:

“Ashli Elizabeth Babbitt, a 35-year-old Air Force veteran, was fatally shot in the shoulder by Lt. Michael Leroy Byrd while attempting to climb through a shattered window in a barricaded door.[326] This was soon ruled a justified homicide.[261][327][328] Brian Sicknick, a 42-year-old responding Capitol Police officer, was pepper-sprayed during the riot, and had two thromboembolic strokes the next day,[329][330] after which he was placed on life support,[8] and soon died.[331][332] The D.C. chief medical examiner found he died from a stroke, classifying his death as natural,[333] and commenting that "all that transpired played a role in his condition".[334][335] Rosanne Boyland, 34, died of an amphetamineoverdose during the riot,[336] ruled accidental by the D.C. medical examiner's office.[17] Kevin Greeson, 55, and Benjamin Philips, 50, died naturally from coronary heart disease and hypertensive heart disease.[17]

So, yes, there was a stroke connected to the riot, but it was classified as death by “natural causes,” ie not a homicide.


oromagi
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@cristo71

If not for Babbitt’s tragic death, our media would not be able to describe that occurrence as “the DEADLY January 6th capitol riot.” Well, they would still be able to, but not without issuing a retraction later near the back page…
Your argument appears to be:

P1: One can't call an occurrence DEADLY unless a person dies
P2: Ashli Babbitt was the only person to have died on Jan 6th
C1: Therefore, if not for Babbitt one could not describe Jan 6th as DEADLY

You have conceded P2.  I have asked for a source on P1 but I think its safe to say your conclusion's already done.

Now you are arguing HOMICIDE as a condition for P2 but that makes your P1 obviously untrue:

P1: One can't call an occurrence DEADLY unless there's homicide
P2: Ashli Babbitt was the only homicide on Jan 6th
C1: Therefore, if not for Babbitt one could not describe Jan 6th as DEADLY

P1 is manifestly false. When a car goes off a cliff, that can always be called a DEADLY accident but it is not always (not even generally) homicide.

oromagi
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WiKiPEDiA:
Republican Representative Markwayne Mullin said he witnessed the shooting; he felt that Lt. Byrd "didn't have a choice" but to shoot, and that this action "saved people's lives".  According to Mullin, at the time, law enforcement was trying to "defend two fronts" to the House Chamber from the "mob", and "a lot of members [of Congress] and staff that were in danger at the time".   Capitol Police officers had been warned that many attackers were carrying concealed weapons, although a subsequent search revealed no weapons in Babbitt's possession.  Following the routine process for shootings by Capitol Police officers, the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department and the Justice Department investigated Babbitt's death and declined to charge Byrd with shooting her.  The Capitol Police additionally said they would not discipline the lieutenant, whose action they deemed "lawful and within Department policy."   The shooting was recorded on several cameras, and footage was widely circulated.  Babbitt has been called a martyr by some far-right extremists who view her as a freedom fighter. 
ebuc
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@Greyparrot
@FLRW
Cause { Trumpet },

Effect { Trumpeteers }

Resultant {  Jan 6th insurrection, plus countless other unfortunate detrimental deaths over the years } 
cristo71
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@oromagi
Your argument appears to be:

P1: One can't call an occurrence DEADLY unless a person dies
P2: Ashli Babbitt was the only person to have died on Jan 6th
C1: Therefore, if not for Babbitt one could not describe Jan 6th as DEADLY

You have conceded P2.  I have asked for a source on P1 but I think its safe to say your conclusion's already done.

Now you are arguing HOMICIDE as a condition for P2 but that makes your P1 obviously untrue:

P1: One can't call an occurrence DEADLY unless there's homicide
P2: Ashli Babbitt was the only homicide on Jan 6th
C1: Therefore, if not for Babbitt one could not describe Jan 6th as DEADLY

P1 is manifestly false. When a car goes off a cliff, that can always be called a DEADLY accident but it is not always (not even generally) homicide.
Oh, my… I hope you didn’t spend too much time on that.

Ok, I was maybe hoping I could sort of *reason you through* your incorrect usage of “deadly” to an event with no fatalities (hypothetically speaking, of course), but it looks like that ain’t happening…

As for the equivocation fallacy, there are so many references on it that I could just guide you through the keystrokes required to find them on your little computer there. I know that wouldn’t cut the mustard with you, though, so here’s one:


Still, I really think I explained the problem very clearly already. Now, I know you’re still not going to reach any sort of epiphany from reading some reference, even if you did ask for it. I get the idea from your rather over-serious efforts that you would only accept a vote from some illustrious moderation panel here. The important thing is that I’m not bothered either way what you think…


Anyhoo… yes, multiple fatalities at that event, but only one *directly* caused by the event itself, and it was one of the rioters, not one of the people being… eh, rioted against? So, to put it a different way:  the January 6 riot WAS deadly… to the rioters!

Remember the story that day about the policeman getting beaten with the fire extinguisher? Yes, it was an awful story. Good thing it wasn’t awfully true! Our objective media really ran with that one didn’t they? Funny how they didn’t do their due diligence until after they repeated that rumor daily. Hmm… it’s almost as if our trusty, objective media is trying to reenforce some sort of bigger narrative… it is to ponder…
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@cristo71
Anyhoo… yes, multiple fatalities at that event,
Which invalidates your OP

If not for Babbitt’s tragic death, our media would not be able to describe that occurrence as “the DEADLY January 6th capitol riot.”
Whether we're using my dictionary definition of DEADLY or your non-dictionary definition.

but only one *directly* caused by the event itself,
Another goalpost shift:
P1: One can't call an occurrence DEADLY unless that occurrence was the direct cause of death
P2: Ashli Babbitt was the only person to have died on Jan 6th whose death was directly caused by the event itself
C1: Therefore, if not for Babbitt one could not describe Jan 6th as DEADLY

But now P1 and P2 are both quite false.  Mental illness is seldom the direct cause of death but few would argue that depression or sociopathy aren't therefore DEADLY conditions.  Nor was Ashli Babbitt's death the only one directly caused by the rioting.

  • The DC Coroner noted that five hours of mob violence and at least two bear spray attacks played a role in Officer Brian Sicknick's massive stroke less than 8 hours later.
  • We can't know the degree to which the rioting prevented effective medical response to two heart attacks and one drug overdose but the coroner certainly noted the riots as the cause for the 90 minute delay between Roseanne Boyland's collapse and her arrival in an ER.
  • At least four suicides by police officers in the aftermath seem directly precipitated by the attack. 
    •  In the months after the civil disturbance at the Capitol, it was generally reported that the deaths of five people who were present have, to a varying degree, been related to the event. Some members of Congress and press reports included these two [the first two police suicides]  in the number of fatalities, for a total of seven
and it was one of the rioters, not one of the people being… eh, rioted against?
Working pretty hard for a euphemism there.  Try the United States Congress sitting in Joint Session by Constitutional mandate and the US Govt's duly appointed protective services.  Those were the people Republicans were assaulting on Jan 6.

So, to put it a different way:  the January 6 riot WAS deadly… to the rioters!
Rioters, Congressman, Police Officers.  Seditionists specifically threatened to hang Mike Pence and put a bullet in Pelosi's head on live TV which meets the Wiktionary definition of DEADLY, "Aiming or willing to destroy; implacable; desperately hostile" as well as Mirriam-Webster's " very likely to cause death" distinction.

Remember the story that day about the policeman getting beaten with the fire extinguisher? Yes, it was an awful story. Good thing it wasn’t awfully true!
Retired firefighter Robert Sanford assaulted three police officer with a fire extinguisher on Jan 6th.  Here is video of that assault:


We know that one victim of the assault was Ofc. WIlliam Young.  We know that Brian Sicknick was part of Young's contingent of 22 CHP deployed to the lower West stairs but nobody has established whether Sicknick was one of the two other officers hit by that particular fire extinguisher.  We know that the Coroner says that whether or not Sicknick was hit by an extinguisher that day, there was no indication of a blunt  injury severe enough to by itself precipitate a stroke 8 hours later.

We know that Robert Palmer has been indicted in part for throwing the same fire extinguisher twice at the phalanx of CHP guarding the Inauguration Door.  Here is a news report showing one of those attacks on video:


We know that Matthew Miller has been indicted for assault with a fire extinguisher during the same attack on the Inauguration Door.

We know that many other fire extinguishers were discharged based on the extent of residue found throughout the Capitol, including sprayed on famous public works of art.

It is awfully, very true that multiple policemen were getting beaten by many fire extinguishers on Jan 6.

Our objective media really ran with that one didn’t they? Funny how they didn’t do their due diligence until after they repeated that rumor daily. Hmm… it’s almost as if our trusty, objective media is trying to reenforce some sort of bigger narrative… it is to ponder…
The Wall Street Journal was the first to report that Sicknick was one of the many police officers assaulted by fire extinguishers on Jan 6.  That report relied on the testimony of two Capitol Hill police who were part of Sicknick's 22 man cohort guarding the lower western stairs.  No evidence has disproven the claim and the Wall St. Journal has not retracted the report.  Certainly, we have good documentation of at least 3 assaults by fire extinguisher on Sicknick's group of 22 officers so the officers' testimony seems very possible if not downright likely.  Sicknick did not mention a fire extinguisher when reporting his injuries to his brother just minutes before he collapsed that night.  Whether or not Sicknick was hit by a fire extinguisher, blunt force trauma does not seem to be a primary factor in Sicknick's death.

The WSJ is generally recognized as a conservative newspaper with a fairly good record for reliability and fact-checking. You are accusing WSJ of failing to do due diligence  but have not explained in what respect.  It was and remains true that at least two CHP officers told the WSJ that Sicknick was assaulted by a fire extinguisher at some point on Jan 6.  That claim appears to be at least very possibly true and no evidence has disproved the claim.


cristo71
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@oromagi
Ok, I’m still trying to figure your reasoning out— would you describe any auto accident, for example, as “deadly” because auto accidents have the known potential to involve fatalities?