While White & Black Americans admit to using and selling illicit drugs at similar rates,
uhhhh where do you get that?
Systemic racism exists
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your just spewing out random facts with no context about crime rates
plus the idea of "systemic racism against blacks" makes no sense because the system is all for BLM and other movements
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@Fruit_Inspector
@Aryanman
After dong some research i found that 41% of the black population use welfare proving my point they are poorer.
- The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.
Fruit_inspector
I assume your trying to trap me so i have to type this out carefully
Yes and no-- not all black people get bad education but i would assume that yes since they get worse education they might not be as good in these skills this doesn't make any less intelligent or any more stupider; But then again not all black people are poor. Like barrack obama. If a black person does make it through school and goes to college with sufficient education then they pass college; try to sign up for a job there is still a lower chance of them getting accepted
If they have a black sounding name.
A study showed that minorities who "whiten" job resumes get more interviews.
Hopefully I didn't screw anything up so you can trap me
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@drlebronski
My nephew has the name of a pagan deity, I'd probably place him 'lower in applicants 'I'd accept. (On the name 'alone)
I mean, if someone had the name Adolf, they're 'also going on the lower stack.
Not necessarily 'black names, just foreign or odd names, might be disliked?
Maybe not even intentionally?
I'm guessing.
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@Dr.Franklin
Lol heres where i found it https://www.vox.com/2015/3/17/8227569/war-on-drugs-racism
plus the idea of "systemic racism against blacks" makes no sense because the system is all for BLM and other movements
The system is all for blm? ok buddy.............. you ignored 90% of what i said
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@Lemming
Its rarely intentional its usually implicit bias meaning they are doing it subconsciously.
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@drlebronski
If they commit 'crimes more, though, maybe police interaction would be higher?
Even if the drug use was the same, increased interaction, would lead to higher arrests.
Or the actions 'taken by individuals, during their interactions with police.
Its rarely intentional its usually implicit bias meaning they are doing it subconsciously. - drlebronski
Maybe they should choose more American sounding names?
Then again, how well or poorly, do the non-black, foreign sounding names do?
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@Lemming
Maybe they should choose more American sounding names?
I find it stupid that a race would have to lose their culture in order to get more jobs.
If they commit 'crimes more, though, maybe police interaction would be higher?Even if the drug use was the same, increased interaction, would lead to higher arrests.Or the actions 'taken by individuals, during their interactions with police.
Another factor that plays into them getting arrested more is police disproportionately placed in black areas that and implicit plus some have external bias.
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@drlebronski
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1m66na/black_american_parents_of_reddit_why_do_you_name/
It's called assimilation.
If someone 'insists on a sperate identity, and 'highlights their difference, and race, who's the one pointing out race?
If people want to stick to their culture, that's fine.
Just a nuance of society sometimes, "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down."
Doesn't matter if it's an African name like Shaka, some Old English name like Herewald, or some old age Hippie naming their son Peace.
Awareness matters, how one presents themself to the world matter.
Stick out if you like, but don't complain about it.
Another factor that plays into them getting arrested more is police disproportionately placed in black areas that and implicit plus some have external bias. - drlebronski
Sounds complicated.
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@drlebronski
It is not so much of a trap as simply bringing an idea to it's logical conclusion. But I try to be fair in these types of interactions so I won't force a view on you that you don't agree with. If we reach a conclusion and you feel I have misrepresented you, you are always free to dispute it or go back to the answer you feel needs clarification.
Now I am speaking in terms of rates in comparing white people to black people. So black people might commit crimes at a higher rate, yet there could be more crimes actually committed by whites because they account for a higher percent of the population.
So let me rephrase in terms of rates. It is more likely that a black person will receive a lower quality education than a white person because of their neighborhood. Thus, it is more likely that a black person's learned skill levels that are developed in their education (reading, math, critical thinking, etc.) will be lower compared to whites. And it is this lower quality education that will make it more likely that black people will be less qualified for jobs and have a harder time with financial decisions, right?
The opposite conclusion would be that you believe black people are not hindered by lower quality education in terms of their job qualifications and their ability to make financial decisions.
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@drlebronski
that article is talking about 2012,
in 2012 the african population was 44.5 million
and in 2012, 89% of african americans received welfare
89% of 44.5 million = 39605000, meaning 39.6 million of african americans received welfare
and in 2018 the african population was 47.7 million and 92.5% received welfare, which means 43.9 million received welfare
so between the 6 years, even when the african american population grew by 3.2 million, an increase of 4.3 million african americans received welfare and it went from 89% of african americans receiving welfare to 92.5% in 6 years
not to mention how the government spends 131.9 billion dollars on welfare every year and a total of $9.88 trillion was spent on welfare programs in America
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@Aryanman
The article states
- The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.
Not 89% unless i misread though i can see why you got those numbers.
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@drlebronski
i heard that it was mostly high black incarceration rate because of repeat offenses
The system is all for blm? ok buddy.............. you ignored 90% of what i said
clearly when every major corporation was supporting it
90% of what you said is just random facts with no context, yeah dc arrest rates are unproportionable but have you every considered that just maybe crime rates might also be unproportionable, just a thought?
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@Dr.Franklin
clearly when every major corporation was supporting it
corporations don't care that much they just want to appeal to an audience its like pride month thing.
90% of what you said is just random facts with no context, yeah dc arrest rates are proportional but have you ever considered that just maybe crime rates might also be unproportional, just a thought?
I think im giving context i provide sources and reasons are you getting angry because it proves you wrong? dude i alredy addressed disproportianate crime levels!!!
this is what i said
statistics indicate 61-80% of black overrepresentation in prisons can be explained by higher black crime rates, with the unexplained portion largely attributable to racial bias.Remember - the factors which lead to disproportionate criminality amongst black Americans are also in large part a product of racial bias. Underfunded public programs, redlining, generational poverty, bad schooling, and myriad other factors which influence criminality can also be traced to racial bias
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@drlebronski
thats the participation rate in a month, not welfare received in a year
The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.
so im correct about them receiving more welfare and them being more likely to participate in government assistance programs
41% of the black population use welfare in an average month
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@Aryanman
yes you are which proves my point that they are way poorer. you get welfare when you desperately need it
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@drlebronski
they are way poorer
But that argument offers nothing to the question: Why are Blacks poorer? If education is linked to personal earning potential, and it is on an individual basis, and if other society factors are, in fact, factored in [divorce rate, family abandonment rate, etc], those factors define solution to the poorer condition. It goes back to personal responsibility to get off welfare, and not a systemic cause depressing anyone into welfare, because a free education is offered to every citizen K-12, and scholarship for college is available to those who excel. Who can excel? Back to personal responsibility, not government oversight. I offer Dr. Ben Carson as example, who's single-parent mother was illiterate, yet challenged her children to excel. Tell me what advantage, other than his ambitious mother, Dr. Carson had. He's not alone. The NFL, MLB, NBA, are full of such Blacks whose childhoods wold never have guessed at their potential. It's simply personal commitment to personal responsibility to excel. They manage to do it without any offering of allegiance to CRT, or any other hair-brained theory, such as 1619 Project.
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@drlebronski
As I keep telling y'all.
Everyone discriminates.
It's human nature.
So it's going to be nationally systemic, and also systemic in all racial sub-groups.
Despite what we are led to believe, racial/colour discrimination isn't an exclusively White European condition.
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@3RU7AL
@fauxlaw
Sorry if this is lengthy,
Overall 'gist of all three though, (In how I view them)
Is how people's conditions, environments, chance, have an effect in how they turn out.
The luck they're blessed with.
Maybe Dr. Carson's outcome is more an 'exception, than a rule.
I'm not saying people in hard times 'can't work their way out, but it 'is often difficult I imagine, odds against.
Though people being responsible for their own fates, even in bad straits, is a line of thinking I pursue myself.
Applying it to many 'including myself.
Though I'm 'still not 'fond of government regulated charity myself, be better in communities and individuals did that themselves.
I prefer government keeping to the functions of protecting our liberties, rather than telling us what to do.
To quote 3RU7AL,
"Once upon a time there was a strong tree.
This tree was the largest tree in the area.
One day, an acorn asked the tree how it grew so strong.
Well, little one, the tree replied, I was once a little acorn just like yourself!
I didn't fall in exactly the ideal spot, with the richest soil, there were many rocks around and it was a bit sandy, but I made the best of my situation, kept my chin-up, dug down as deep as I could, sprouted in the spring time, that's important, then I diligently soaked up as much water and minerals and sunshine as I could.
I had a few competitors around that time, other acorns had sprouted, and there was a lot of tall grass and weeds, but I just kept a positive attitude and did what came naturally.
The little acorn asked, what happened to the other saplings?
Well, the tree explained, they were all cut down by the farmer.
The little acorn asked, why were they cut down and why did the farmer spare you?
The tree thought for a second and then replied carefully, they were inferior, they weren't true to themselves, the wise farmer knew that I was the best and spared me because only a sapling with my work ethic and authenticity could grow into such a mighty tree.
The farmer even placed this nice picnic table in the shade of my branches to reward me for being superior.
That's amazing! The little acorn exclaimed, I'll follow your advice because I want to be just like you!
A whole year passed and the little acorn grew into a formidable sapling.
And then, in the spring, the farmer came to clear the brush.
The sapling was unceremoniously uprooted and bundled up and carried away with all the overgrown grass and fallen twigs.
With it's last dying breath it asked the strong tree, what did I do wrong?
The tree shrugged, you just didn't have the talent for it kid. You doubted yourself. You didn't suck up enough water and minerals and sunshine. You weren't true to yourself.
It's your own fault."
"There are a zillion and one contemporaries of J.D. Rockefeller who were just as "smart" or "smarter" who were "100% true to themselves" and worked hard all day every day and they didn't "make it to the top".
What we're dealing with is SAMPLE-BIAS, more specifically SURVIVOR-BIAS.
...and the fundamental-attribution-error." - 3RU7AL
. . .
The Parable of the Sower
13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Matthew 13 (NIV)
. . .
"Mencius said, "The woods on Ox Mountain were once beautiful! On account of its being on the edge of a large country, it had been attacked with axes and hatchets, and then how could it remain beautiful? The refreshing breezes of day and night, and the moisture provided by rain and fog, did not fail to give rise to sprouts of vegetation. But cows and sheep have been repeatedly pastured there, and for that reason it has remained desolate. People observe its denuded state and assume that it never had any good resources. But how could this state be the true nature of this mountain?" — Mencius, 6A:8
Mencius argued that "bad" human natures were produced just as the bad condition of Ox Mountain had been produced, so the answer to "bad" humans was to protect and nurture them from birth. He also thought that punishment does not do much good. It does not cure the root of the problem."
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@drlebronski
corporations don't care that much they just want to appeal to an audience its like pride month thing.
nope, they clearly do care and push it
I think im giving context i provide sources and reasons are you getting angry because it proves you wrong? dude i alredy addressed disproportianate crime levels!!!this is what i said
totally wrong, crime only comes from the lack of fathers in the homes and there is no conspiracy to defund black education,etc
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@zedvictor4
Everyone discriminates.It's human nature.So it's going to be nationally systemic, and also systemic in all racial sub-groups.
Discrimination has many faces, and only one of them is racial. Another is habits. Another is education. Another is lifestyle. Another... get the picture? Everyone does not discriminate racially. Isn't that the real condition, that you blithely ignore?
Human nature is what each individual makes of it. They are either controlled by it, or they control it. Get the picture? Everyone is not a slave to our nature. Some can overcome.
Naturally systemic is an oxymoron. That gets back to both issues above, neither of which are necessarily true. It's been demonstrated above that nature is not a compelling factor; we can overcome it, individually, and even collectively, but the latter is rare. The system is not what we are; it is what we create, socially. The system is government; its legislation and established policies; what we write down as the rules of society, not a conglomerate social consciousness b y which everyone is plugged in. We either obey law [written statutes of how we should comport ourselves], or departmental and even private corporate policies [written - and to which all department or corporate members agree, or they agree to leave, individually, should they disagree or are fired [or should be] for violation. THAT's systemic.
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@Lemming
Maybe Dr. Carson's outcome is more an 'exception, than a rule.
The point is, there are three kinds of people:
Make things happen
Watch what happens
Wonder what happened
Your group who think outcome is dictated by somebody else are always in the third group, and it even invades the second group. We each are in a group by our own choice. Many choose to remain wonderers. They have the capacity, but fail to use it, to advance.
"Once upon a time there was a strong tree.
Shyte happens. We mostly suffer by our own choices, but there are times when somebody else comes along to upset the apple cart. But that is not anybody's end of the story. You should know that our suffering, our disappointments, our sorrows, our pains, and even our sins have an outcome that is, ultimately, determined by our own choice; the choice to accept the atonement of Christ, and to embrace his plan for our complete and total redemption, even from actions of others, to overcome all, to even overcome death by resurrection. It is our individual choice for each of us, regardless of the consequences of our lives. We can be redeemable, even the sapling.
The Parable of the Sower
Don't expect one parable to explain all of life's choices and consequences. The parable is about the consequences of seeds. They have no choice of where they are sewn. But we are not seeds. We are children of God. He did not toss us here to earth to fend entirely for ourselves. We were placed here with purpose: to know good and evil, to choose between them, to act accordingly, to change our hearts when we go astray, to seek forgiveness when that happens, to forgive others when they stray, even when their straying affects us, to overcome our challenges and disappointments, to choose by our free agency to be obedient to God, or not. To succeed in life, or not. To return to him triumphant over all, or not. Our choice. Entirely.
Mencius
Mencius ignores two things: 1. We were placed here and were given dominion over the earth. In that regard, we tend to blame God when things go wrong. But it is not his dominion, is it? It's ours to deal with as we choose. We often choose poorly. Why blame God? It's our stupidity, and the sooner we recognize that, the. better our entire environment will be. We complain Earth isn't heaven? Are we so blind, we don't know what that looks like? Are we totally incapable of creating that environment if we choose to do so? Make a desert blossom as a rose? We know how to do that. But our greed, our propensity to satisfy ourselves, and everyone else be damned is a mentality we choose to take. God is responsible for our choices? Bullshyte.
2. God was prudent enough to give us many examples scattered around the earth, as it was created, to help us understand that we can make a desert look like a rose garden. We can plant trees to grow a forest. We can move water from one location to another to secure another paradise where it once did not exist. Why don't we have aqueducts from the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi to shunt that water to the Southwest, and also solve much of the flooding downstream? We can do that, but don't. So, the Sahara used to be a rainforest? We can restore that forest, but don't. Why not? Our choice to be stupid? Yeah, probably.
Bottom line: we need to stop thinking we are victims. Time to start taking our responsibility of stewardship over this Earth, and ourselves.
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@fauxlaw
I can appreciate your view, though I'm not in complete agreement 'or disagreement, with it.
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@Lemming
Is it that easy to buy in to victimhood? That's a personal choice, too. Stop it.
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@fauxlaw
I wouldn't call it buying 'into victimhood on my part.
But myself, I recognize an amount of causality in existence, though I admit I 'do find that distinction more important 'after, than 'before or 'during a situation.
And even then, there are many occurrences, in which 'after, I can see how the situation 'might have been different, with other actions, effort, or awareness.
From my perspective, I 'do think there are events that are a 'bit beyond individuals 'reasonable responsibility or control.
That come upon them as an unexpected natural disaster, from the blue.
Though,
I 'admire will to power, individuals with motivation.
. . .
Shyte happens, 'is a perspective I understand.
Of keeping it together, being stoic, acting as the situation requires for success, self control, and grace amidst disaster.
- Captain Ron (1992)
. . .
Parables, and the written word, well, 'any situation in life, can have multiple interpretations.
Though my understanding of the Bible and Christianity is shallow.
But some of the meaning I parse from The Sower,
"20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22"
If we 'gave individuals root, by education, tradition, and practice. Tilled the soil, removed the stones, their chances would be improved.
So too with,
22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
By this I can appreciate an individual wishing to improve the environment an individual grows up in. To remove that which hinders, harms. And promotes good soil.
. . .
Of Mencius, it is not God that he takes umbrage with, but 'mankind, I'd assert.
Our prison systems could be an example, one 'could assume there was nothing but a bad individual from the start,
But Mencius would say instead, it is the was the individual has been 'treated by his environment, by society.
As you fauxlaw say, "Are we totally incapable of creating that environment if we choose to do so?"
Well, I'd say an uneducated or callow youth, 'might be unlikely to see his situation clearly, understand a better path, or have knowledge on how to walk it.
. . .
Though I 'still admire your view of individuals and communities taking responsibility.
I 'would frankly, rather 'they help themselves and their neighbors, than the government do so.
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@drlebronski
While White & Black Americans admit to using and selling illicit drugs at similar rates, Black Americans are VASTLY more likely to go to prison for a drug offense.
How is it systematic racism that blacks deal drugs on street corners and are easier to prosecute than whites doing itnin their mother's basement behind closed doors?
The black population of DC is 25% greater than the white population, but black people were 410% more likely to be stopped by the police than white peopleThis disparity increases to 1465% for stops which led to no warning, ticket or arrest and 3695% for searches which led to no warning, ticket or arrest
There is more car jackings in black areas. Studies have shown more frequent police stops, help reduce car hackings.
Knowing this, police will make more stops in areas with lots of car jackings. To make sure they are not being unfair to the communities they make more frequent stops in, they make up for it by issuing far less warnings and giving less tickets.
They could ticket the same rate of stops, but choose not to, in order to be fair.
Between 2011 and 2015, black drivers in Nashville’s Davidson County were pulled over at a rate of 1,122 stops per 1,000 drivers — so on average, more than once per black driver.
Studies also show that black drivers are more likely to speed than white drivers. Meaning they will obviously be pulled over more often for speeding. Also more 19 year old males speed than 60 year old males, so they are also pulled over at disproportionate rates.
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@Wylted
How is it systematic racism that blacks deal drugs on street corners and are easier to prosecute than whites doing itnin their mother's basement behind closed doors?
Are you joking? i cant tell. thats not an argument at all wtf.
There is more car jackings in black areas. Studies have shown more frequent police stops, help reduce car hackings.Knowing this, police will make more stops in areas with lots of car jackings. To make sure they are not being unfair to the communities they make more frequent stops in, they make up for it by issuing far less warnings and giving less tickets.They could ticket the same rate of stops, but choose not to, in order to be fair.
But WHY are there more car jackings? and as i said earlier 61-80% of black overrepresentation in prisons can be explained by higher black crime rates, with the unexplained portion largely attributable to racial bias. WHY do black people commit more crime????? is it cause they are black?
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@Dr.Franklin
I think im giving context i provide sources and reasons are you getting angry because it proves you wrong? dude i alredy addressed disproportianate crime levels!!!this is what i saidtotally wrong, crime only comes from the lack of fathers in the homes and there is no conspiracy to defund black education,etc
Your totally wrong my guy. https://www.newsweek.com/absent-black-fathers-myth-racism-1509085 the study that showed this used unmarried as the definition of single. Its not a conspiracy do some research for about 2 seconds https://tcf.org/content/about-tcf/tcf-study-finds-u-s-schools-underfunded-nearly-150-billion-annually/?agreed=1
corporations don't care that much they just want to appeal to an audience its like pride month thing.nope, they clearly do care and push it
Ok buddy also even if this was true the system still exists.
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@Lemming
I 'would frankly, rather 'they help themselves and their neighbors, than the government do so.
There you go; great conclusion! Yes, there are situations beyond our individual control, and some beyond a whole society's control, but primarily, we are individually able to control our environment and how to respond to it, or even anticipate occurrences, plan for them, and proactively prevent much of what occurs.