Being gay isn't a choice

Author: drlebronski

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#31
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@Intelligence_06
"Gay" is an established social construct, relative to a specific recreational sex methodology.

There is no such thing as a "Gay gene" per se....Maybe a genetic coding that might affect a conscious choice to perform a particular recreational sex act.

Though there is certainly a whole lot of social nurturing going on too....If you make a sex act socially acceptable then more people will give it a go and probably enjoy the experience.....After all, enjoyment is the secondary purpose of recreational sex.


Nonetheless.

If I chose to only have recreational sex with sheep, would I therefore be able to justify my actions  by  saying that I  possessed a Baaaa gene, and had no choice?

And just to make Theweakerone's hair curl......Why do we not attribute paedophiles with a Kiddy gene?.....Perhaps they have no choice either.

If you're going to be absolutely PC non-discriminatory, then it's got to be SLGBTPQ.

Why just a "Gay gene"?

In fact, can any choice action that seemingly strays from a social norm be justified by a no choice gene?
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#32
drlebronski
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In reality if being gay WAS a choice it would not matter at all.
#33
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@drlebronski
As far as we are able to know, everything is real.

And realistically, being "gay" doesn't matter, to anything other than thinking people. Which is why we have these discussions.

Though realistically, and notwithstanding physiological anomalies, humans are only humans, that can typically and realistically only be sub-categorized into male and female procreational bodies.

Whereas "gay" is a social construct relative to a male recreational sex methodology.
#34
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@zedvictor4
Theweakeredge, I believe, should have cited something that stated that one's sexuality directly correlates to the state of several genes found in the human DNA. Those genes determines if you are truly gay or not. As a human, being gay technically isn't a choice.

In the end, being gay is a choice. You can't choose to just be gay or something, but you can always cease to exist(not recommended), in which then you will be neither gay nor straight, neither tall nor short, neither overweight nor skinny, neither intelligent nor stupid. You don't exist.


#35
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@Intelligence_06
Everything physiological correlates to the state of genes.

Though "Gay" is a social construct that correlates to human data management.


Controversial question:
Therefore, does the paedophile also possess a sexuality that correlates directly to the state of genes?




#36
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@zedvictor4
Paedophilia is a mental disorder, however you can choose to not harass minors. 

That said, being gay or straight are essentially the same as mental disorders, except that it isn't damaging to either the self nor the outside world. Being gay is mental, but not disorder. Mental states can be hinted by a gene or several genes, and the state of several genes may put someone in depression without abuse because genes said so.

I believe genes may lead to someone being more likely to be a pedophile, though the law enforcement tries to prevent that for the bigger picture.
#37
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@Intelligence_06
That's all conveniently subjective though.

When does a disorder not correlate to genes.

Harassment is only relative to  social behaviour. 

And "Gays" can choose not to participate in homosexual acts.

Dispassionately, there is no special distinction to be made between G and P.....The only difference is how they relate to currently accepted social behaviour.
#38
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@Reece101
I am 100% heterosexual, and I know one of my granddaughters boyfriends wanted to try homosexuality, so in his case he chose to homosexual at least temporarily. 
#39
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@ronjs
Picturing your family gossip puts a smile on my face.
But anyway it sounds like what you’re talking about is experimentation.
Knowing one’s own sexuality can be confusing especially when you’re young. 

#40
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@zedvictor4
Genes determine if you are likely to find people in the same sex attractive or not.

So, in some cases, you are gay before you know it.

However, you can always choose not to act gay and choose to act gay. The decoder man chose the later and got punished.
#41
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@Reece101
Notwithstanding physiological anomalies. There's nothing whatsoever confusing about the difference between a penis and a vagina.

Nor is there anything confusing about their intended purpose.

Mixed social messages relating to procreational urges and associated recreational sex is where the confusion arises.

As a species we have developed a social tendency, to overlook and misinterpret the intended purpose of our sex organs.

Penis in vagina = procreation.

Penis up another blokes backside = recreation.

Simple.

Living together, acquiring a mortgage and a nice new fitted kitchen, and then settling down with a new puppy = Social construct.

Experiment and choose.

Nonetheless. 7.9 billion and counting, so a lot of people are still getting the hang of it.
#42
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@zedvictor4

I was talking about sexual orientation (who you’re attracted to), not biological sex. Anyway, having a penis or vagina aren’t always great indicators of how one should feel, especially if you were born with DSD, specifically CHA, and doctors did the wrong surgery. I think you would agree with that.

Nonetheless I’ll give you some arguments to see where you land. 

  1.  It’s a fact homosexual behaviour and gender fluidity are well documented in mammals other than us. Is it really correct to state “mixed social messages relating to procreational urges and associated recreational sex is where the confusion arises.” And also “As a species we have developed a social tendency to overlook and misinterpret the intended purpose of our sex organs.” Or are you off the mark and there’s a much more deeper understanding to be had?
  2. Both transgenderism and homosexuality are not modern phenomena. They go back thousands of years in a wide range of ancient societies. 

#43
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@Reece101
No Idea what CHA might be, as I could find no immediate contextual reference to it.

Nonetheless as ever I did state "Notwithstanding physiological anomalies".

And as I previously stated also, attraction relative to recreational sex may be genetically influenced, but is also certainly socially influenced and maybe also environmentally influenced.

Though the distinction I make, lies between procreation and recreation. Homosexual sex is a recreational derivative of the procreational drive, as are the many other methods of achieving sexual satisfaction. Choices Choices Choices.

And as I keep stressing "gay" as in relationship choices,  is a social construct and nothing whatsoever to do with genetics.

As for animals......My dog is happy to hump my leg, and my tortoise goes a bundle on my work boots......So is this special genetics or just the urge to procreate in the absence of an appropriate mate?

As for history...Nature has always thrown up developmental obscurities. That's stating the obvious....And homosexual sex has long since been a method of achieving orgasm.

So why do such protagonists have to keep writing so much into the justification of the obvious....Because historically, and (contrary to popular thinking) also currently, homosexual sex is a social taboo. 


Urgency...Sex act...Orgasm...Temporary satisfaction achieved...Roll over and go to sleep....And repeat.....Same old, same old.
#44
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@zedvictor4
No Idea what CHA might be, as I could find no immediate contextual reference to it.
I meant CAH (congenital adrenal hyperplasia) 
Essentially it’s a congenital condition where it’s unclear if a newborn is male or female. 
A doctor essentially has to do surgery not always clear on the biological sex. 

Nonetheless as ever I did state "Notwithstanding physiological anomalies".
That isn’t about a physiological anomaly. 

And as I previously stated also, attraction relative to recreational sex may be genetically influenced, but is also certainly socially influenced and maybe also environmentally influenced.
Are you just stating truisms or are you making a point I’m not seeing?
A homosexual maybe socially pressured to have a nuclear family, but it doesn’t make him or her the same as someone straight. 

Though the distinction I make, lies between procreation and recreation. Homosexual sex is a recreational derivative of the procreational drive, as are the many other methods of achieving sexual satisfaction. Choices Choices Choices.
Although there are social elements.

And as I keep stressing "gay" as in relationship choices,  is a social construct and nothing whatsoever to do with genetics.
Relationships are downstream from sexual orientation. You’re treating them as if they’re on par.
You might as well have also said ‘and as I keep stressing "straight" as in relationship choices,  is a social construct and nothing whatsoever to do with genetics.’

As for animals......My dog is happy to hump my leg, and my tortoise goes a bundle on my work boots......So is this special genetics or just the urge to procreate in the absence of an appropriate mate?
There are animals that have lifelong gay relationships. It’s not just about getting off. 

As for history...Nature has always thrown up developmental obscurities. That's stating the obvious....And homosexual sex has long since been a method of achieving orgasm.
Males and females both have backsides, mouths and hands. What method are you talking about exactly? 

So why do such protagonists have to keep writing so much into the justification of the obvious....Because historically, and (contrary to popular thinking) also currently, homosexual sex is a social taboo. 
Is there a specific point you’re making?
#45
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@Reece101
CAH...By your definition is a physiological anomaly....As is DSD.

A Man or Women might be socially pressured for sure....What's new.

A homosexual is a Man that  participates in recreational sex with another man.

The nuclear family is as much a social construct as a gay relationship is.

And if you think about it, society is all about the pressures of conformity.

Sexual orientation is how we describe recreational sex preferences.

And correct.... Straight is a social construct also....Relative to heterosexual sex acts. 

And animals don't recognise the human concept of "Gay".  Please elaborate on this idea.

Not at all certain of the purpose of the hands, mouth and backside reference. Please elaborate on this idea too.


Is there a point?

Every new generation assumes that it discovered this new and amazing thing called sex.

And the current lot  think that they have discovered this new and exciting thing called "Gay".....Sorry, it's been around for millennia and is nothing new.

So why the constant need to justify ones actions with elaborate explanations?


Urgency...Sex act....Orgasm....Temporary satisfaction achieved....Roll over and go to sleep....And repeat.....Same old, same old.

It makes no difference who or what you might choose to share the bed with.
#46
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@zedvictor4
Yes, the definition is correct. 

You didn’t answer whether you’re making a point? 

Yes all relationships are social constructs. Whoopty freakin do! 

Yes, societies in the status quo require conformity for better or for worse. 

Sexual orientations aren’t fetishes. Saying sexual orientation is a “preference” feeds into the idea that being gay or straight is a choice. 

By animals having lifelong gay relationships I meant lifelong same sex relationships. I didn’t say anything about them understanding human concepts. 
You didn’t have a substantive argument, hah? 

The question I was getting at was, what is the ‘homosexual method of achieving ejaculation’ which a straight couple can’t achieve?

It just seems like you’re oversimplifying sexual orientation to the point of portraying it as a choice.
Is it a choice?





#47
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@zedvictor4
You missed my point - being gay is a brain state, like enjoying vanilla ice cream over chocolate - I'm not talking about acting gay in sex or whatever, I'm specifically referring to the attraction of the same gender that the definition of gay is stated to be - that is not a choice. I'm not gonna deal with your bullshit again. Read thoroughly or go away. 
#48
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@Reece101
Yes your definition was correct...I agreed....Physiological abnormalities are separate issues.

All relationships are social constructs...You agree....Not genetics...Whoopty freakin do!

Societies require conformity...We agree.

No one mentioned fetishes...We were discussing standard recreational sex choices....No whipped cream necessary.

Life long same sex relationships....Most creatures will have life long same sex relationships  of some description.....You still need to elaborate upon this, as it's not yet a substantive argument.

Hah?....?


Data in, data assessment, data storage, data out.  Choice is the process of analysing data and making a decision.

The point was, we are not discussing anything new. Homosexual recreational sex is  an old hat, time worn option. But  nowadays we have  more elaborate explanations as to why why we make the decisions that we do.

Urgency....Sex act.....Temporary satisfaction achieved.....Roll over and go to sleep....And repeat....Same old same old.

Justification not required....Ah!....Unfortunately not so......Hence "Being gay isn't a chioce".

What is really being asked is......It is OK for a man to enjoy recreational sex with another man isn't it.

And I say yes it is, it's absolutely fine, a perfectly functional solution to ones unavoidable requirements.... Has been for donkey's years, so stop making a song and dance about it....And give the whipped cream a go.....Your choice though.







#49
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@Theweakeredge.

Fundamentally being human is a brain state....No brain, zilch....And some people enjoy vanilla and chocolate....And some people just love ice cream...And some don't like it at all.

And attraction is attraction....Your just stating the obvious.



Some men are attractive and some men are more attractive than some women, but I choose not to partake in sex with attractive men....Social conditioning ...An acquired brain state.

Social conditioning is somewhat more liberal  these days, in certain societies.  So consequently, some people have the social freedom to  openly choose how they satisfy their sex drive.  If I had been born 20 years ago, then who knows what different socially inspired  choices I would have made.

So you choose.....Chocolate or vanilla or both....And stop bullshitting.

Though fundamentally, ice cream is still ice cream.....And flavours are a tasty modifications thereof.

#50
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@zedvictor4
let’s focus on one thing at a time. 

No one mentioned fetishes...We were discussing standard recreational sex choices....No whipped cream necessary.
By “standard recreational sex choices” do you mean a bisexual deciding whether to sleep with a man or a women?
That’s the closest sexual orientation comes to choice. But that has nothing to with with the original proposition. The title states ‘Being gay Isn’t choice.’
Do you think you’re only gay or straight during sexual intercourse, and everyone is bisexual (Schrodinger's Cat if you will) when not having sex?
Your whole thought process is a clusterfuck I’m trying to figure out.

#51
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Why did God put the butt hole right next to the vagina?
#52
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@Reece101
To be honest your above comments are perhaps a better example of a "clusterfuck".

Fantastic word though....I will try and make sporadic use of it.


And I believe, that high end sex dolls are becoming a popular choice....male , female  or androgynous  you choose.

Though perhaps  it's a genetic thing.


Urgency....Get the doll out of the cupboard....Achieve temporary satisfaction....Roll over and go to sleep....And repeat....Same old, same old.

Make sure in the morning, to clean and dry  thoroughly and put back into cupboard ready for  next time.

And if your feeling horny in the morning, there's always the choice of masturbation, if you don't fancy sloppy seconds.

Sorted.
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#53
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@zedvictor4
your ignorance is really pissing me off. Sexual Attraction to man or woman or whatever is not a choice. Doing whatever sexual activity with them IS a choice. Being attracted to a man is not a choice for the last time.
#54
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@drlebronski
So was it a choice the first time?

And what is a whatever?

And when one was does "whatever sexual activity" is that a genetic predisposition or just a sporadic thing?

And do you remember Jimmy Somerville?
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#55
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@zedvictor4
having sex with someone is a choice being attracted to somone is not a choice its not that hard of a concept zedvictor.

So was it a choice the first time?
what? having sex? if that yes. If being attracted no.
And what is a whatever?

who knows.

And do you remember Jimmy Somerville?

who the hell is that
#56
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@drlebronski
I thought you might remember Bronski Beat.


And you said that being attracted to a man wasn't a choice the last time. So I just wondered if it was the first time.


And true...Being attracted to someone is being attracted to someone...I've never said that it wasn't.

But you can choose whether to fuck them or not.


And out of interest, do you find trans women attractive?


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#57
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@zedvictor4
i think we agree.
And out of interest, do you find trans women attractive?
it really depends.
#58
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@drlebronski
So what would it depend upon?

There's a trans women who is  barber in my local town.

She looks reasonably masculine, but also obviously feminine.

So without prior knowledge of her physical capabilities......Would a gay man regard her as a man, would a straight women regard her as a man, would a lesbian regard her as a women or might a straight man regard her as a women?

And  would she be a lesbian or straight?  Or could she ever really be a straight man?

Without the relevant information we have to make choices based solely on attraction.

So if you were attracted to a very masculine looking  trans women, what would you do once the pants were off?
#59
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@drlebronski
People don't genetically take it in the ass any more than genetically they like pizza. Being a fruit is a result mostly of environmental factors, though a genetic predisposition is possible.

Now with that said, It likely is not any more voluntary  than my my liking pizza. However me liking pizza is not genetic, and saying somebody was born to be a fruit is inaccurate.  

Also I support your right to get married
#60
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@Wylted
Marriage?

An excuse for a knees up and a thick head I suppose.