trump's big tech lawsuit is stupid

Author: n8nrgmi

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private companies can limit speech. only the government is prevented from limiting speech. this is so settled as law, that i doubt the supreme court would even take the case. i saw that thomas had a dissent in a case that would support trump, but i assume the other conservatives are traditional enough not to join him. 

colleges have governmental regulation as a condition of taking federal funds. big tech doesn't get government money to my knowledge. i doubt they'd need or want all that. 

trump's case might be good politics, in that he seems like he's taking on bullies, and it's good for fund raising... but that's all it is, pure politics. 

which of you ditto head dim wits agrees with trump on this, and why? 
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@Greyparrot
u r all things trump ian. so why do you support him? (i could be wrong that you support him here, but you are such the ditto head that i'd be surprised if you were to deviate)
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@n8nrgmi
Ah, here for another drive-by jab at "Trump supporters" to get your weekly dose of dopamine, only to leave when you start receiving critical responses? Neat. I know your formula.
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@Dr.Franklin
u r all things trump ian. so why do you support him? (i could be wrong that you support him here, but you are such the brainwashed type that i'd be surprised if you were to deviate)
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@bmdrocks21
i dont debate you much for you to have me so encapsulated. you must be referring to the gun debates that you lost. 
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@n8nrgmi
 that you lost. 
You must have dementia if that's how you think that went down.
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@bmdrocks21
you denied the consensus of science and other non-debate able science, in the gun debate. very basic stuff. very stereotypical conservative stuff for you to do. 
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@n8nrgmi
 in the gun debate
You have not ever done a debate during your entire time on this site.

you denied the consensus of science 
You ignored the racial component of the data, which horribly skews it.

You get rid of one group and the US homicide rate is a mere 1.47 per 100,000 despite having more guns than people. You had and still have absolutely no response to that, especially when the group taken out has a much lower gun ownership rate than the largest group in the country. Hence, if a group with more guns does less murder, clearly the gun is not the problem. And even if homicide would be slightly higher than it otherwise would be with a gun ban, that is still not a convincing reason to get rid of them.

But I'll just let you fish for your much-needed attention. I know how libs suffer when they aren't the center of attention for more than an hour.

I don't want to end up derailing the thread.
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@bmdrocks21
white america might be safer than usual. my knowledge is it's still worse than other developed countries, but even if it isn't there's still the scientific consensus that guns cause problems when people have them. plus you didn't have a good reply to why non-gun murders aren't wildly out of whack, as should be the case to some degree, if this is just a bad person problem and not a gun problem. 
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@n8nrgmi
you denied the consensus of science
Science has absolutely NOTHING to do with "consensus"

What a ridiculous fad that has been going around the last decade propagated by politicians to create a new meaning for science.

Most actual science is conveniently censored.
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@Greyparrot
Science has absolutely NOTHING to do with "consensus"

What a ridiculous fad that has been going around the last decade propagated by politicians to create a new meaning for science.

Most actual science is conveniently censored.

But 90% of climate scientists that will get a grant if they are important said that climate change is the biggest issue of our time!
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@n8nrgmi
Yes, Trump has little legal ground to stand on and seems to know it.  The lawsuit seems to be just another way to re-up Trump income with another round of fundraisers that explicitly say that Trump is not obligated to spend donations on his lawsuit and on which we've already established he won't pay taxes.  The GOP is complaining that Trump is now cutting deep into GOP fundraising for 2022 Congressional races but Trump, as ever, does not give a fuck.
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@n8nrgmi
plus you didn't have a good reply to why non-gun murders aren't wildly out of whack, as should be the case to some degree, if this is just a bad person problem and not a gun problem. 
Because nobody could possibly know that. For it to be relevant to a gun discussion, we would have to know why specifically gun homicides rose beyond their normal amount that year. It could be random and just an aberration that is was so incredibly high last year, rendering that change meaningless. Maybe the drug trade became more heated last year as people had less money.

Again, I have no clue. I don't have to prove why one year was way higher than another unless it is known to be relevant.


which of you ditto head dim wits agrees with trump on this, and why? 
To respond to the actual thread, though, I don't care in particular about the Trump case. But I support forcing these platforms to allow lawful speech, which would lump his case in with it, I suppose.

I'd like to think I have a pretty practical idea of what the government should do. I see a problem- a handful of tech platforms that essentially have a monopoly are dictating online speech to manipulate elections- and I propose a solution that it can implement: require all lawful speech to be allowed if they want liability protections under American law.

I don't believe in this cuckery that I see so many conservatives and libertarians engaging in by saying we should allow private companies to do more or less whatever they want just because they are privately-owned.
If there is good that the government can be used for, which it occasionally can, I intend on using it to do just that.
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@n8nrgmi
private companies can limit speech. only the government is prevented from limiting speech.
Wanna tell me why private companies cannot limit white people? Or does the 14th Amendment not matter as much as the 1st Amendment
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@ILikePie5
not sure why you're injecting race into this. 
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@bmdrocks21
A political party having a monopoly on media content is a flagrant violation of the Sherman anti-trust act.
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@oromagi
Yes, Trump has little legal ground to stand on and seems to know it.  The lawsuit seems to be just another way to re-up Trump income with another round of fundraisers that explicitly say that Trump is not obligated to spend donations on his lawsuit and on which we've already established he won't pay taxes.  The GOP is complaining that Trump is now cutting deep into GOP fundraising for 2022 Congressional races but Trump, as ever, does not give a fuck.
His money-whoring is starting to piss me off.

He needs to endorse candidates/help them fundraise or gtfo of politics altogether.

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@oromagi
Oops, forgot my question. What lawsuit were you referring to in which he said he didn’t have to use the money on the lawsuit?
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The problem is they are calling them selves a platform that allows all kinds of speech to avoid lawsuits, while simultaneously limiting free speech. 
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@n8nrgmi
not sure why you're injecting race into this. 
It’s an analogy…

Companies cannot do whatever they want with regards to service. 
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@bmdrocks21
In 2019 a New York judge ruled that President Trump must pay $2 million in damages to settle claims that the Trump Foundation misused funds. The money will go to a group of charities, and the foundation is in the process of dissolving.
The case is tied to a televised fundraiser for veterans held by Trump in Iowa when he was running for president in January 2016. Trump had said the funds raised would be distributed to charities. But according to court documents, the Trump Foundation improperly used $2.82 million it received from that fundraiser.
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@ILikePie5
what law requires trump to have free speech on social media? 
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@bmdrocks21
well u made me realize that there should be free speech rights on social media given it's a monopoly. but, social media is by far free speech oriented. given trump's speech is often not constructive, i dont see the need to bend over backwards for him. maybe if there was a more urgent need we could get big tech free speech rights. maybe i'm not virtuous enough to be worried specifically about trump's speech rights. 

but yeah, the lawsuit is still meritless, cause there are currently no laws that give trump those rights. i think u recognize that too. 
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-->@oromagi
Oops, forgot my question. What lawsuit were you referring to in which he said he didn’t have to use the money on the lawsuit?
The lawsuit filed yesterday, the one mentioned in the title and OP.

WILL TRUMP's BIG TECH LAWSUITS SUCEED?  EXPERTS say CHANCES are SLIM
Legal scholars suggest former president’s complaint may bring the attention he craves but doesn’t present a serious legal argument

Kari Paul
Wed 7 Jul 2021 17.32 EDT

Donald Trump may have filed lawsuits against Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, claiming he and other conservatives have been censored – but legal scholars say his case is probably doomed to fail.

The former president was suspended from Twitter, Facebook and YouTube after the 6 January Capitol attack over fears he would incite further violence. Trump on Wednesday filed class-action lawsuits in federal court in Miami against the three companies, arguing these suspensions violated the first amendment, despite the fact that the companies are private and therefore subject to different rules.

“Trump has the first amendment argument exactly wrong,” said Paul Barrett, the deputy director of the NYU Stern Center for Business and Human Rights. “The first amendment applies to government censorship or speech regulation. It does not stop private sector corporations from regulating content on their platforms.”

Trump says he will sue social media giants over ‘censorship’

Social media platforms, under Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act, are allowed to moderate their services as they please so long as they are acting in “good faith”. The law also generally exempts internet companies from liability for the material that users post.
But Trump and other conservatives have long argued that Twitter, Facebook and other social media platforms have abused that protection and should lose their immunity – or at least have to earn it by satisfying requirements set by the government.

All three lawsuits ask the court to award unspecified damages, declare Section 230 unconstitutional and restore Trump’s accounts, along with those of the other plaintiffs – a handful of others who have had posts or accounts removed.

Eric Goldman, a law professor at Santa Clara University in California, has studied more than 60 similar, failed lawsuits over the past few decades that sought to take on internet companies for terminating or suspending users’ accounts. He says Trump’s lawsuits are unlikely to go far.

“They’ve argued everything under the sun, including first amendment, and they get nowhere,” Goldman said. “Maybe he’s got a trick up his sleeve that will give him a leg up on the dozens of lawsuits before him. I doubt it.”

Goldman said it’s likely Trump is instead pursuing the suits to garner attention. As president, Trump last year signed an executive order challenging Section 230.
“It was always about sending a message to their base that they’re fighting on their behalf against the evil Silicon Valley tech giants,” Goldman said.

The lawsuit is “meritless” as major platforms are private entities, with first amendment rights to control the content they publish, echoed Vera Eidelman, a staff attorney with the ACLU. Eidelman added that Trump has baselessly claimed these social platforms responded to pressure from the government in their content moderation.

“He fails to back that up with allegations showing that the companies were responding to government coercion or encouragement, which is an issue we would not take lightly,” Eidelman said.

As antitrust battles continue, there have been discussions about how to address the outsized power and influence of big tech firms on users. But ideas about how exactly to address the issue differ widely. Experts say Trump’s lawsuits do not actually address many of the antitrust issues at hand.

Facebook, Google and Twitter all declined comment Wednesday.

“There is an important debate to be had about what kinds of obligations the first amendment may impose on private actors that have so much influence over public discourse, and about how much leeway the first amendment gives to Congress to regulate the activities of those private actors,” said Jameel Jaffer, the executive director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. “But this complaint is not likely to add much to that debate.”

The claims from Trump serve to distract from “legitimate concerns” about how haphazard content moderation or censorship has negatively impacted marginalized communities, said Evan Greer of digital rights organization Fight for the Future.

“While it’s silly to pretend that the moderation decisions of big tech don’t have a significant impact on free expression, the first amendment enables private platforms to make exactly the kind of moderation decisions they wish to make as non-government entities,” she said. “This is not a lawsuit. It’s a fundraising grift.”


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@oromagi
I see.

I’d agree that this lawsuit is unlikely to win. Seems to me that it is a waste of time, money, and political capital to try it.

Under the current laws, it is difficult to do anything about the censorship. Hence why my focus is on changing the laws and not on frivolous lawsuits.
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The Make America Great Again movement is only just beginning.

President Trump is calling on you to step up and become a founding member of his Save America team.

Can he count on you?

Please contribute ANY AMOUNT in the NEXT HOUR to get on President Trump’s Official Founding Member Donor List.
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@oromagi
I see.

I’d agree that this lawsuit is unlikely to win. Seems to me that it is a waste of time, money, and political capital to try it.

Under the current laws, it is difficult to do anything about the censorship. Hence why my focus is on changing the laws and not on frivolous lawsuits.
I think I would focus on anti-trust legislation and fully justified Federal anti-trust interventions against a number of big tech giants- Amazon and Facebook are certainly anti-competitive monopolies- perhaps Twitter although I'd have to think that one through.  Why change corporate rights to control private content with new law when hundred year old laws are clearly relevant and address the problem of lack of  alternative venue much more directly?  I know Conservatives despise anti-trust generally but using existing law is more Conservative in principle then designing new laws to achieve desired political outcomes.
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@n8nrgmi
why do you say im brainwashed lol?

yes i support him in this case, it isnt ok for a handful of megacorporation's controlling thought on the interent
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@n8nrgmi
what law requires trump to have free speech on social media? 
The 1st Amendment. Same as how the 14th Amendment prevents them from providing their service only to Black people.
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@ILikePie5
how does the first amendment apply to big tech? the amendment refers to congress and that's how it's always been treated.