America is the greatest superpower to ever exist

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 55
#31
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,346
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@MarkWebberFan
I'm not saying America is a paragon of virtue, in the past 'or now.
But, humans and nations being what they've been, I don't think we've made a bad showing of ourselves either.
As you say, "Revenge, usurpation, grave defilements are all common themes of history." - MarkWebberFan

Really just a bit of sleep deprived, and unwarranted snappishness on my account, I suppose. Towards drlebronski.


#32
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,596
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
When the Europeans arrived, carrying germs which thrived in dense, semi-urban populations, the indigenous people of the Americas were effectively doomed. They had never experienced smallpox, measles or flu before, and the viruses tore through the continent, killing an estimated 90% of Native Americans.
#33
drlebronski
drlebronski's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 993
3
5
9
drlebronski's avatar
drlebronski
3
5
9
-->
@Lemming
I was mentioning this because the Underdog was talking about how other countries have done terrible things i'm not saying anyone should feel guilty it's history now its not anyone thats alive today's fault that atrocities happened (mostly), but again the underdog mentions how all these other countries have done terrible things without realizing the us has done other atrocities that are much worse.
#34
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,346
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@drlebronski
It's a fair point, for you to make.
#35
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
Make a separate thread about UK politics and where you believe the Parties stand and I'll oblige you with a more in-depth response.

There is absolutely no way that Lib Dems are the equivalent of your US Libertarian Party, if anything they are on the other polar end of the spectrum.
#36
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
@RatMan

The Conservatives are the party of the  social movers and shakers.

Labour are currently unsure of who they represent, and the wannabee masses aren't sure if they wannabee Labour any more. Most people aspire to moving and shaking these days.

And the Lib Dems wannabee all things to all genders.


And the  movers and shakers are headed by the elite movers and shakers, who are in turn headed by the Aristocracy and the Monarchy.


And "Whitehall" is the real centre of British power.

And of course, the masses are never happy with the Party in government, because nothing really changes.

Same old shit Eugene.
#37
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@zedvictor4
That explains nothing...
#38
Sum1hugme
Sum1hugme's avatar
Debates: 37
Posts: 1,014
4
4
9
Sum1hugme's avatar
Sum1hugme
4
4
9
-->
@TheUnderdog
"greatness" is going to be totally relative to the qualities you arbitrarily assign to it. So what qualities are you using to qualify "greatness"?
Topic's author
#39
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@oromagi
Then read The Journal of Lewis and Clark and their descriptions of the great ghost towns along the Missouri river- just wiped out by smallpox and abandoned.
I think disease deaths were an accident, they didn't have vaccines, and the pilgrims didn't know they had a disease, so these deaths were not the moral fault of America.

The US gives citizenship to anyone that it conquers. 
Are you including African Americans in that claim?
Yes; Blacks have citizenship.

The stuff about the Roman empire I'm not sure about.
Topic's author
#40
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@drlebronski
Every superpower throughout the vast majority of history has done questionable stuff.  The question is, "Is America a better superpower for the world to emulate than China(the alternative)?"  Reperations are theft.  The Hiroshima bombings were to end WWII.  When America developed the atomic bomb, we bombed a small city to end the war.  Had Germany developed the atomic bomb first, NYC and/or DC would be off the map, America would surrender, and the Germans and Nazi ideology would control the world.  I don't know who Fred Hampton is.
#41
drlebronski
drlebronski's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 993
3
5
9
drlebronski's avatar
drlebronski
3
5
9
-->
@TheUnderdog
You make points i disagree with but especially when you said germany would have control over the world. Germany had already surrendered when the us bombed japan. Fred Hampton was the leader of the black panther party in chicago which fought for Civil rights. The FBI and CIA published propaganda about him trying to kill all whites and then was murdered by the CIA while he slept next to his girlfriend. a picture then emerged of the agents who killed fred hampton they were smiling at the camera as they brought his dead body from the apartment. when the house was inspected bullet holes were in the door and on every wall. They then tried to say Fred Hampton was trying to shoot them but after it was thoroughly inspected there were found to only be 2 gunshots that may have come from Fred Hampton
#42
drlebronski
drlebronski's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 993
3
5
9
drlebronski's avatar
drlebronski
3
5
9
i agree america is definitely better than china
Topic's author
#43
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@drlebronski
Germany had already surrendered when the us bombed japan.
If the US didn't bomb Japan and if Germany developed the nukes first, NYC and DC and all their suburbs would be off the map and their civilians would be dead.  Instead, a small Japanese suburb was off the map.

Fred Hampton was the leader of the black panther party in chicago which fought for Civil rights. The FBI and CIA published propaganda about him trying to kill all whites and then was murdered by the CIA while he slept next to his girlfriend. a picture then emerged of the agents who killed fred hampton they were smiling at the camera as they brought his dead body from the apartment. when the house was inspected bullet holes were in the door and on every wall.
I think killing one black panther activist pales in comparison to the 29 million deaths the Nazis were responsible for.  No superpower is perfect, but America is better than the rest of the countries that are/were superpowers.
#44
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
@RatMan.

Apart from how British social structure is organised..

And how political parties, which are basically short term administrative bodies, fit into the system.


Did you ever see the satirical T.V. comedy Yes Minister.
#45
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@drlebronski
Is that because you are not Chinese?
#46
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
The stuff about the Roman empire I'm not sure about.
They were very generous relative to other powers in their day with granting citizenship and given their tech level impressively adept at tracking who was or was not included in that group. Also keep in mind that in ancient times 'citizenship' was slightly more complex of a concept than in the modern day and significantly more valuable in the sense that the difference in rights and privileges offered citizens versus non-citizens of various city states or powers was generally much vaster than many places in the western world today.
#47
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
The Roman Empire was perhaps the most influential in terms of human social development.

And the U.S.  has undoubtedly,  been greatly influenced by post colonial Romanism.


And the British Empire, like it or not....Was quite an amazing feat of global human management.

We've still got little bits of real estate, dotted about here and there.

Hong Kong was never going to last though.


Alexander also had a good bash....But had a tendency to go East and peaked too early.
#48
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
The epitome of capitalism and freedom.
what made america great was its people, culture, and liberty not capitalism or freedom in the libertarian definition of it
#49
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,596
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
The USA ranks 32nd in Average IQ in the World. This explains Trump being elected President.
#50
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@FLRW
Ireland is 50th. Explains how I went to the Olympics for math that time. 
Topic's author
#51
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Dr.Franklin
what made america great was its people, culture, and liberty not capitalism or freedom
You said what made America great was liberty, not freedom even though these are synonyms.  Capitalism is part of American culture.  I fail to see how American people are superior to Mexican people for instance.
#52
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
nope, liberty means the right to self govern, freedom used to equal good discipline on a societal level but now means "do whatever you want"

not how the fathers intended it

"“Posterity! you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the pains to preserve it.”-John Adams

and no capitalism doesnt define a culture, morals and religion do, henry ford raised his salary because he was a good man and created the middle class as a result, that was technically anti-capitalist but it didnt matter because it heavily benefited america.

Capitalism is good and doesnt need to be regulated by the government,- it should be regulated by the society, religion, and duties
 
Topic's author
#53
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Dr.Franklin
liberty is the right to live your life.  Freedom is a syninomn (liberty definition - Bing)

The rest of your post was confusing.
#54
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
bing is different from the founding fathers

you dont have a right to live "however you want to", thats false freedom
#55
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
What the heck????

Motto: E Plurbus Unum.  Out of many one.  Out of many ethnicities, one nationality.  Out of many states, one nation. 
You make a huge stretch there. It ONLY means colonies/states. 
": out of many (states or colonies), one (nation) —used on the Great Seal of the U.S. and on several U.S. coins"

Don't believe me? Check out the immigration and naturalization policies we had over the first 150 years of existence. They did darn near everything they could to make it a European ethnostate.

Only superpower to have an actual libetarian party 
Hard to argue that we do, considering they haven't had a member in Congress (since at least 1972) and have at their maximum received a little over 3% of the presidential vote.

This is why people want to move to America instead of ethnostates like Britain, France, or Germany.

Britain, France, and Germany are not ethnostates anymore. They have let in very many Middle Eastern and African immigrants/refugees.

Nobody is moving here because we killed less people hundreds of years ago. Nobody moving here probably even knows the libertarian party exists.

Most of them, and I'll go out on a limb here, move here exclusively because this is a richer country with more welfare and higher-paying jobs than wherever they came from- not because of some notion of "victimless freedoms". The only ones that MIGHT consider that a main factor are from already rich countries (which we get relatively few immigrants from).