Do you think he likes to just hang out sometimes? Play pool? Share a meal?
Or is it all prodding people with pitchforks and that?
Do you think the devil has friends?
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28
Do you think one might earn the devil's good graces as they might god's?
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@badger
To have friends, one would need to exist.
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@SkepticalOne
And be fun, so that's the both of you in trouble.
What's the harm in the devil existing, tell me?
The devil (Bible edition, as opposed to Islamic version or whatever else) is a severe victim and outcast.
He is the weird kid in class who resented the alpha male amongst the Preps AND Jocks both.
You need to understand that if the devil is presumed to be Lucifer who is cast down, the devil is actually a rebel to a tyrant painted as something deeply sinister.
Alternatively (and I believe this is true if Christianity is true), if Satan is not Lucifer at all but instead is a more cunning and ruthless persona of God himself, Satan has no friends at all indeed and that is by design to enable God's split personality disorder to unleash such that one side is worshipped to by respect and fear whereas the other side is feared but disrespected entirely.
God's personas both have a kinky desire for being feared but God sometimes likes to be loathed and spoken ill of while at other times enjoys being disrespected.
The reason I leave Islam out of this is both to avoid offending certain dangerous types and because Allah vs Shaitan is a much more abstract rivalry and war. Shaitan is actually a non-personality, it's like Venom in Spiderman, it takes form of others who are misled.
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@badger
What's the harm in the devil existing, tell me?
The devil is the antihero to Yahweh's antivillian. A conscientious objector cast from heaven and consigned to be the benchmark of evil by the "good guy". If the devil existed, he would be the least of our transcendent problems.
Milton's Paradise Lost, Dante's Inferno, no matter their artistic merit, ought not have been written.
If one valued Christianity, as they only debase Christian understanding of their faith.
Pitchforks, and fire, Bah!
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@SkepticalOne
What's the harm if god exists, then? Self righteousness as a hobby is a bit lame, dude.
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@Lemming
Milton's Paradise Lost, Dante's Inferno, no matter their artistic merit, ought not have been written.
I'd have went to mass more if Jesus was swinging swords like that.
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@badger
What's the harm if god [of the Bible] exists, then?
It means a powerful, ignorant, and malicious being who fancies himself righteous and perfect in every way plays hide and seek with humanity and tortures for all eternity those who don't find or pretend to find him.
Besides that...everything would be hunky dory. XD
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@RationalMadman
That is really quite funny. And weirdly it makes sense.
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@badger
Do you think the devil has friends?Do you think he likes to just hang out sometimes? Play pool? Share a meal?
He certainly does and he is on good terms with god too, don't you know? Gambling seems to be his thing.
Did you know that once, a long long time ago that he and god had a bit of a fall out and god was so annoyed with him that he sentenced him to crawl on his belly eating dust for "the rest of his days" Genesis 3:14. But then before you know it, god it seems had forgiven him and he is then to be found just walking around going to and fro about the earth, free as a bird and gambling with god. Yes indeed. For instance, they had a bet how loyal Job would remain if given a hard time? Even to the point of murdering all of Jobs 10 children!! And all of these devastating and fatal disasters that were bestowed on poor loyal Job, were all sanctioned by god himself!! Its all there in this 5 minute biblical story .
7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” And Satan answered the Lord, “From roving about on the earth, and from walking back and forth across it.”...........................
18 While this one was still speaking another messenger arrived and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19 and suddenly a great wind swept across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they died!
So yes, the devil has friends in extremely high places that he likes to have a a bit of a wager with when he returns from his to-ing and fro-ing and is bored out of his skull
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@badger
The Devil is transgender and has lot's of mates.
I read that in an old book, so it must be true.
Oh, sorry, I thought the topic was about Trump.
Jerry Garcia says yea
I lit out from Reno
I was trailed by twenty hounds
Didn't get to sleep that night
Till the morning came around
Set out runnin' but I take my time
A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine
If I get home before daylight
I just might get some sleep tonight
Ran into the Devil, babe
He loaned me twenty bills
I spent the night in Utah
In a cave up in the hills
Set out runnin' but I take my time
A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine
If I get home before daylight
I just might get some sleep tonight
I ran down to the levee
But the Devil caught me there
He took my twenty dollar bill
And he vanished in the air
Set out runnin' but I take my time
A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine
If I get home before daylight
I just might get some sleep tonight
Got two reasons why I cry away each lonely night
The first one's named sweet Anne Marie and she's my hearts delight
The second one is prison, babe, the sheriff's on my trail
And if he catches up with me, I'll spend my life in jail
Got a wife in Chino, babe
And one in Cherokee
First one says she's got my child
But it don't look like me
Set out runnin' but I take my time
A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine
If I get home before daylight
I just might get some sleep tonight
Got two reasons why I cry away each lonely night
The first one's named sweet Anne Marie and she's my hearts delight
The second one is prison, babe, the sheriff's on my trail
And if he catches up with me, I'll spend my life in jail
Got a wife in Chino, babe
And one in Cherokee
First one says she's got my child
But it don't look like me
I set out runnin' but I take my time
A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine
If I get home before daylight
I just might get some sleep tonight
There's no hell in the Old Testament. Therefore some devil that rules hell is non-existent. It's either based on complete fiction like Dante or it's based on some horned pagan God. If the latter is true then yes they do have friends.
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@badger
You should read Paradise Lost for a sympathetic view of Satan. In fact, it wasn't his fault that Eve consumed the forbidden fruit, he merely gave her the idea to consume it.
7 days later
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@SkepticalOne
It means a powerful, ignorant, and malicious being who fancies himself righteous and perfect in every way plays hide and seek with humanity and tortures for all eternity those who don't find or pretend to find him.
By definition God would have to be perfect.
Hell is not a place you go to be tortured. It is a mere separation or as close as you can get to separation from an omnipresent being.
He isn't playing hide and seek either. He is just playing seek. He seeks you. He loves you, and sending you to be tortured in the afterlife is not something he will do, and it isn't something the bible says will happen either.
God exists. If/or when he wants you to believe, you will. https://youtu.be/Sc6SSHuZvQE
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@Wylted
By definition God would have to be perfect.
I guess the authors of the Tanakh/Bible/Quran didn't get the memo. ;-)
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@SkepticalOne
How would you with your limited knowledge and significantly lower IQ than God, even be able to realize what perfect was by looking at it or reading about it in this case?
You don't know really if God has directed the writing of the Koran, bible and Tanakh. Perhaps start by looking at things you do know he wrote. Look for him in the laws of nature.
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@Wylted
How would you with your limited knowledge and significantly lower IQ than God, even be able to realize what perfect was by looking at it or reading about it in this case?
Assuming a god exists and humans (with finite knowledge) cannot recognize perfection then we can't know if God is perfect or not. It makes you wonder how we could define "God" as perfect...
You don't know really if God has directed the writing of the Koran, bible and Tanakh. Perhaps start by looking at things you do know he wrote. Look for him in the laws of nature.
I know of things claimed to be written by gods - I know of nothing that actually is.
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@SkepticalOne
Assuming a god exists and humans (with finite knowledge) cannot recognize perfection then we can't know if God is perfect or not. It makes you wonder how we could define "God" as perfect...
Because of the modal ontological argument.
I know of things claimed to be written by gods - I know of nothing that actually is.
He wrote the laws of nature, such as our moral senses. Moral sense theory is correct for example, which proves objective morality.
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@Wylted
I remain unconvinced. *shrugs*
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@SkepticalOne
My son made the same exact statement to me earlier when I said batman was not real. He shrugged and said
"I remain unconvinced."
It goes to show that even when you show perfect logic such as Godel's modal ontological argument, that sometimes people will just believe what they want to.
Perhaps the S5 system of logic is wrong though. Perhaps a God that is imperfect can exist. I have heard some criticisms of the S5 system. I have also heard criticisms of logic in general. Some claim we can only reach some semblance of truth through experimentation.
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@Wylted
My son made the same exact statement to me earlier when I said batman was not real. He shrugged and said"I remain unconvinced."
Chip off the ol' block, eh? Does he have the logical argumentation for the existence of Batman too? (So cute!) Before he gets carried away, it might be a good idea to tell him synthetic truths do not follow from analytic propositions.
It goes to show that even when you show perfect logic such as Godel's modal ontological argument, that sometimes people will just believe what they want to.
Pure logic doesn't generate facts about the real world. ;-)
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@SkepticalOne
Logic is fake
Oh wow okay. Lol
Is math real?
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@Wylted
Logic is fakeOh wow okay. LolIs math real?
If all else fails, make shit up, eh?
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@Wylted
You don't know really if God has directed the writing of the Koran, bible and Tanakh. Perhaps start by looking at things you do know he wrote. Look for him in the laws of nature.
This is a profound statement especially for atheists. Now of course, the atheist will just claim God is not needed to explain the laws of nature. However, that is a mere interpretation of what we observe in our universe it is not a fact. To make that assertion means they have to accept a lot of baloney to believe that whether they realize it or not at first.
But this statement is a step in the right direction because God exists independent of Holy books, and people have this weird idea that if they begin to accept that God may in fact exist (perhaps even through logic and good reasoning) then that means they have to believe in the Bible. Or even more disturbing, if they debunk the Bible that justifies their opinion God does not exist. This couldn't be further from the truth and actually if one begins to see the strong hand of correlation between the products of the universe and an intelligent Maker it really has nothing to do with the Bible. It is simply a common sense observation.
Holy books are just a collection of ideals man has about God, perhaps through their own experiences or perhaps through their own thoughts about God. Maybe even perhaps somethings they believe they received from God or from some source....There may be information there that is useful and there may be information that can be discarded. Before one starts to get into any of that though there should first be very strong inclination that God probably exists, or even better that God does exist and to believe that God does not exist is pretty stupid.
I believe God can easily be seen through just the products of the universe, and correlating processes with intelligence. I must say though that this is not my only reasoning for believing God exists but it's almost a flawless premise to build a strong case for God. Then, we can add many correlating facts with that foundation.
To argue endlessly over whether or not the Bible makes sense is completely irrelevant to whether God exists or not, which is why it gets old real quick. I rarely even argue for the Bible anymore after years of debating it I realized there is no way to get atheists to see any rational objective content in Holy books even is there was some.
Ironically though, there is nothing they can ever do to the possibility that God exists because even their own belief is just an interpretation no matter what they try and use to justify it. To believe intelligent processes just occur all on their own and that inanimate forces can begin to generate productions as if they had intelligence to know how has to be one of the strangest interpretations one can adopt.