the benefits of banning assault rifles outweigh the costs

Author: n8nrgmi

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#61
FLRW
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@Greyparrot
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting occurred on December 14, 2012, in Newtown, Connecticut, United States, when 20-year-old Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people, including 20 children between six and seven years old, and six adult staff members.  Adam used a  Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle.
#62
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@FLRW
That's typical whataboutism. Using extreme isolated examples from 10 years ago to justify the norm that is the mass daily slaughter of black kids in schools with handguns.

Whatever, maybe America deserves to lose its Black kids to handguns in schools. It's not like people actually care about anything anymore. Not really.
#63
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@badger
Yeah, water that is processed through all living organisms...
#64
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@Greyparrot
Whatever, maybe America deserves to lose its Black kids to handguns in schools. It's not like people actually care about anything anymore. Not really
Only in election years and during February!
#65
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@TheUnderdog
For sure.

Get a statistician to create a sheet of statistics.

A statistician could make the holocaust appear reasonable.

And they who pay the statistician, gets the favourable statistics.


Nonetheless owning a gun is reliant upon an individuals sensibilities....And fortunately most people are usually sensible.....Though the weapons effect, is shown to  stimulate an altered and  heightened response, liable to evoke irrational behaviour.

Of course and as ever, the bottom line is....If you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger the outcome is likely to be messy.

Like the little kid in the car with his Mom.


#66
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@zedvictor4
A statistician could make the holocaust appear reasonable.
I don’t know how a statistician could make this happen.  But if background checks and banning assault weapons don’t reduce the homicide rate, what is the point of their existence?

The rest of your post doesn’t make sense.
#67
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@TheUnderdog
Well the rest of my post would make sense if understood the data.....You have the font of all knowledge at your finger tips, so read and understand.

And statisticians are employed to provide statistical data to back up arguments.....Consequently there are two sets of statistics for any argument , and you believe which ever set suits.

And background checks and banning assault weapons won't necessarily reduce the homicide rate......Other weapons are available,

Doesn't alter the fact that all guns are inherently dangerous....That was the whole point of guns.


#68
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@zedvictor4
Doesn't alter the fact that all guns are inherently dangerous....That was the whole point of guns.
Guns are dangerous, but dangerous things shouldn't be banned.  Driving at any speed is dangerous and making the speed limit on highways and roads only 4 kph would save over 30,000 lives per year.  But we shouldn't do this because freedom is a legitimate trade off.
#69
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@TheUnderdog
So why shouldn't society do away with speed limits entirely?
#70
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@dustryder
I think the US should copy Germany and have no speed limits.  Germany doesn't have a very huge accident rate, and this will be even more true with self driving cars.
#71
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@TheUnderdog
Germany in general does have speed limits. You're thinking of the autobahn, but even then, speed limits are enforced for about 30% of the sections.
#72
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@dustryder
On the majority of the Autobahn, there is no speed limit and on the parts of the Autobahn where there is a speed limit, it is very high.  Many people use the Autobahn and it doesn't produce that many accidents.  I think if there was no speed limit on roads, there wouldn't be that many more accidents and we are more free.

The left loves to talk about copying Europe (why they advocate for UHC and free college).  Whether these ideas are good is a different topic, but one way to copy Europe is to have faster speed limits.

America is supposed to be land of the free, and abolishing speed limits is a natural extension of this freedom.
#73
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@TheUnderdog
To be clear, Germany's roads are not only comprised of autobahns. For urban areas, a speed limit still applies and as far as I understand it, was put in place because of automotive accidents.

This isn't anything new. Faster speed limits result in increased incidences of accidents as well as more severe injuries, while the opposite is true for the reverse.

But despite this, you are for abolishing speed limits?
#74
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@TheUnderdog
What does any civilian actually need an assault rifle for?

Other than for big kids to dress up and  play war in the woods with.
#75
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@dustryder
Faster speed limits result in increased incidences of accidents as well as more severe injuries, while the opposite is true for the reverse.

But despite this, you are for abolishing speed limits?
Faster speed limits result in increased incidences of accidents as well as more severe injuries, but the right to go fast is a trade off.

I am for abolishing speed limits in the US or at least making them much faster.  Communist nanny state China has faster speed limits than America, and I think this is ridiculous.  America is land of the free, so we should have the highest speed limits or we should be the ones that have no speed limits at all.  The germans like their mostly speedlimitless autobahn.


#76
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@zedvictor4
What does any civilian actually need an assault rifle for?
1) They are fun to shoot at targets.
2) They protect your home from criminals better than a glock 19.

Moreover, the BoP rests on those with the authoritative stance.  The question shouldn't be, "Why do you need an AR 15?" but instead, "Why should we ban AR 15s?".  Authoritarians have the burden of proof.
#77
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@TheUnderdog
What are we attempting to prove?
#78
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@zedvictor4
If banning semi automatic guns makes society safer, ie if it reduces the homicide rate.  I don't think banning these guns reduces the homicide rate.
#79
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@TheUnderdog
If you intend to kill someone then you will.

And inanimate objects are safe , unless a person animates them.

And you like playing with guns....But I won't go into the psychology of it.
#80
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@zedvictor4
Your being confusing.
#81
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@TheUnderdog
You're confused.
#82
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@TheUnderdog
What about laws related to bodily harm against others, up to and including murder? Should these actions be freedoms that Americans can enjoy but not "communist nanny state China"?
#83
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@dustryder
Banning murder actually reduces the homicide rate.  If murder was legalized, the homicide rate would skyrocket, so it's okay to sacrifice the freedom to murder in exchange for the safety of not getting killed.

However, banning semi automatic guns does not reduce the homicide rate and speed limits only barely reduce the car death rate.  Freedom in these instances is a trade off.
#84
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@TheUnderdog
In that case, it would be perfectly ok to legalise assault, no matter how severe as long it does not result in death?

 speed limits only barely reduce the car death rate.
How did you come to this conclusion?


#85
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@dustryder
If assault was legalized, it would increase the assault rate.  It hurts to be hit, so this is bad.

How did you come to this conclusion?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate#/media/File:Road_traffic_accidents_world_map_-_Death_-_WHO2013.svg states that Europe and Australia have lower car accident rates than the US and they are the places that have higher speed limits.
#86
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@TheUnderdog
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate#/media/File:Road_traffic_accidents_world_map_-_Death_-_WHO2013.svg states that Europe and Australia have lower car accident rates than the US and they are the places that have higher speed limits.
You stated on one hand that speed limits "barely" reduce the car death rate. Your evidence here implies that higher speed limits actually decrease road accident rates. These statements are contradictory.

However at the same time, if you look closely, China has more road accident rates despite supposedly having higher speed limits. In addition, there exist various studies that definitively show that higher speed limits result in increased accident rate and accident severity.


#87
TheUnderdog
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@dustryder
You stated on one hand that speed limits "barely" reduce the car death rate. Your evidence here implies that higher speed limits actually decrease road accident rates. These statements are contradictory.
I changed my mind on this based on the evidence that I discovered.  I was initially comparing German accident rates to Spanish ones, but then I realized both countries are low so that's an unfair comparison.

However at the same time, if you look closely, China has more road accident rates despite supposedly having higher speed limits.
Maybe there is a lurking variable there in that the Chinese have worse roads so there will be more accidents.  The road quality in western countries is comparable.

In addition, there exist various studies that definitively show that higher speed limits result in increased accident rate and accident severity.
I don't know where these studies are, but if that is the case, we would have to see how much speed limits reduce the accident rate and if the restriction in how fast you can drive on the road is worth the lives saved.  If only 1 life worldwide gets saved by making the speed limit 10 kph less, it's not worth it.  Freedom is a trade off.
#88
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@TheUnderdog
I don't know where these studies are, but if that is the case, we would have to see how much speed limits reduce the accident rate and if the restriction in how fast you can drive on the road is worth the lives saved.
Do you need studies to tell you this? Vehicles moving at higher speeds impact with higher force. Apart from this, vehicles moving at higher speeds give less time for the driver to react to road hazards

If only 1 life worldwide gets saved by making the speed limit 10 kph less, it's not worth it.  Freedom is a trade off.
How much life is a reasonable trade off? Before with assault, no lives were lost and yet you deemed this as an unacceptable trade off.
#89
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@dustryder
In theory, higher speed limits will result in more deaths, and in practice this is probably the case.  But I don't know how many lives will be saved.

Before with assault, no lives were lost and yet you deemed this as an unacceptable trade off.
I think the freedom to own a semi automatic gun for hundreds of millions of people in the US is worth the increase in the homicide rate of like .1 per 100,000 (if that) that will take place from legalizing these guns.

How much life is a reasonable trade off?
I haven't figured that out yet tbht, but a lot of life would have to be a reasonable trade off to restrict freedom.  9 million people die a year from starvation, yet that precedent states that 9 million annual deaths is not enough to increase foreign aid to the point where you can save all those lives because economic freedom is a trade off.
#90
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Banning knives would do more than Assault Rifles lol. Hell banning handguns would do more. Another scare tactic as usual.