Alcohol

Author: Timid8967

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#31
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@fauxlaw
I'm not disputing the water content in grapejuice or water. That is beyond dispute. I'm talking about the usage of it to represent Jesus' blood. What possible reason would reduce the symbol to such a diluted symbol? 

Simplicity - why not in relation to the bread as well. Just go and get some grass. Or at least something not cooked.  Bread is not simple. Water is natural. Bread is not. 

Hey look it is your matter - not mine.  

What church do you belong to? 
#32
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@Timid8967
Timid8967,

You are just following in Jesus's footsteps, except you are turning dollars into wine.

John 2:1-11

Jesus Changes Water Into Wine
2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”
4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[b]
7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”


#33
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@Timid8967
Bread, because Jesus declared himself "the living bread." Bread is a staple for man. Grass for cows. And for that matter, wine is not natural as you claim of bread, so, what's the difference?

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints.
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#34
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@fauxlaw
Ok. Thanks for informing me.  

Water is natural.  Bread is man made. 

Wine is man made.  Bread is man made.   Surely there ought to be consistency with the elements? 

My suggestion for grass ought to have been plain wheat or grain.  I was thinking of the natural elements.  Grass, unhelpfully, sprang to mind. 

Wine and bread

natural water and natural grain. 
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#35
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@fauxlaw
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 
#36
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@Timid8967
If consistency of elements is what's important to you, tell me how much of the water you drink daily is truly natural out of the tap?  Let's not spit hairs

Relative to the Priesthood I hold, it is not a matter of what I consider. I am an ordained High Priest.
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#37
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@fauxlaw
If consistency of elements is what's important to you, tell me how much of the water you drink daily is truly natural out of the tap?  Let's not spit hairs
Consistency is a matter for yourself.  Just as matter of interest - do LDS drink wine?  I receive my water from my own water tank.    But I am not purporting to a religious ceremony - that in the bible is described as bread and wine or grapejuice.  


Relative to the Priesthood I hold, it is not a matter of what I consider. I am an ordained High Priest.


Ok - so you reject the author of Hebrews that there is only one high priest, Jesus? Or are you still of the order of Aaron? 


#38
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@fauxlaw
Relative to the Priesthood I hold, it is not a matter of what I consider. I am an ordained High Priest.
Did you know Lori and Chad?
#39
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@FLRW
No, sorry to say. Don't now who they are

#40
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I think the drinking age of 21 is completely bogus in America. What is the difference between being mature enough to go into the military but not being able to drink but at 16, you can drive. The American system is stupid is all essence. I believe the drinking age should be 18 at it's lowest level.

I also believe there should not be a drinking age for consumption, but for purchase. If people are responsible with their drinking, it should not be illegal to consume alcohol if you are younger, but you should not be able to buy or go into bars. 
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#41
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@Vader
Isn't the case that it is public policy to try to separate the drinking age from the driving age? If one reaches the same age to start both at the same time - then what is more likely to happen? Drink and Drive. And then kill yourself and others.  Either start driving earlier and start drinking later or the reverse. Help people to become responsible in one thing rather than both at the same time.  The amount of people who drink and drive is far too much. Public policy is not madness it is actually trying to help save lives - at least in this particular case. 
#42
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@Timid8967
Yes, and I agree, but 16 to 21 is stupid. You are telling me someone who joined the military at 18 can't be mature enough to drink a beer? I think that's fucking stupid
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#43
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@Vader
I ain't saying anything.  

In PNG, our kids can drink alcohol if their parents give it to them. At 18 they can get in the pub. And they can drive at 15.  Military Service - I don't know. I presume 18. 
#44
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@Timid8967
I know but it's just a mannerism thing for me

21 to consume alcohol and purchase and get in pubs. 18 to join military, 16 to drive

Doesn't make sense
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#45
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@Vader
It's probably an American thing. And a big government thing.  But if you want big government you have to take everything it entails. 
#46
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@Timid8967
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 


I too have some questions for the LDS 'sect'. When will you start it?
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#47
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@Stephen
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 


I too have some questions for the LDS 'sect'. When will you start it?

Thanks Stephen,

I had lost this one in the ether of having so much fun. 
#48
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@Timid8967
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 


I too have some questions for the LDS 'sect'. When will you start it?

Thanks Stephen,

I had lost this one in the ether of having so much fun. 

You are welcome. So lets have some more fun when you start your thread on the  LDS - Latter-day Saints in the religion forum.

Maybe we can both pose questions. 
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#49
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@Stephen
Ok. 


#50
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@Timid8967
Well done. I look forward to it.
#51
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@fauxlaw
Consider that in the 1st century CE, fresh water was probably not as plentiful as wine.
Either ancient romans during that time were wasted or dehydrated and given how dehydrating wine is, probably both.  Either way, I wouldn't want to be in that position.
#52
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@TheUnderdog
Personally, I don't ever drink, and never have, so it is not a worry to me.
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#53
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@TheUnderdog
Didn't Paul tell Timothy to drink a little wine with his meal - despite their being water. 
#54
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@Timid8967
I'm not sure.
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#55
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@TheUnderdog
Hi theunderdog,

so have you really left christianity and come over the right side now? Do you still believe in god too or has that been deleted to from your understanding? 

I enjoy your comments- even if sometimes they seem a little cryptic. 
#56
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@Timid8967
so have you really left christianity and come over the right side now?
I would consider myself agnostic, but I'm definitely not on the left.  Thanks for asking.
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#57
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@TheUnderdog
That's funny.  I was not thinking politics - but that is funny. 

What is an agnostic? 
#58
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@Timid8967
An agnostic is unsure if God exists.
#59
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@TheUnderdog
An agnostic is unsure if God exists.
I'll accept that definition, and appreciate the the position. I think its clear I am a theist, further, that I believe God to be a living, physical being whose only desire is that we ultimately become like him, associate with him, and do things for and with him as we engage eternal progression. 

I suggest your research into a concept called theosis. I discuss it in a current debate I'm in with Bones, which he initiated, 
https://www.debateart.com/debates/3101-thbt-the-god-of-the-christian-bible-likely-does-not-exist. Go to my 3rd round argument. [Read the rest as well if that is of interest.] I'd actually appreciate your vote when we get to that point.
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@fauxlaw
You didn’t post R3 yet.