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@Tarik
Not as pointless as praying to a God you don’t believe in.
I’m not sure there is a ranking of pointlessness, I would
say they are equally pointless.
Arguments regarding God
Posts
Total:
210
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@3RU7AL
--> @Shiladoes that mean you won't get into heaven ?You will not be judged for reacting differently but for rejecting the word of God.ok, that's goodso, all denominations of christianity are equally correctas long as they "don't reject" the modern version of the bible that was composed by the council of nicaea 325 years after the reported execution of the jesus
Try to make a distinction.
The Old Testament was the word of God.
The New Testament was eyewitness accounts about Jesus in the Gospels.
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@Elliott
I’m not sure there is a ranking of pointlessness, I would say they are equally pointless.
Then why are you making a pointless argument?
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@Tarik
--> @ElliottI’m not sure there is a ranking of pointlessness, I would say they are equally pointless.Then why are you making a pointless argument?
Maybe he has a blunt instrument.
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@Tarik
Then why are you making a pointless argument?
Here is the argument yet again.
God wants us to believe in him so he should have provided strong evidence for his existence. We have no strong evidence for his existence, therefore God doesn’t exist.
Please show why it is pointless.
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@Shila
The New Testament was eyewitness accounts about Jesus in the Gospels.
collected and compiled 325 years after the fact
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@Elliott
--> @ ElliottHere is the argument yet again. Tarik.God wants us to believe in him so he should have provided strong evidence for his existence. We have no strong evidence for his existence, therefore God doesn’t exist.Please show why it is pointless.
God created the world but left no evidence behind doesn’t make God’s existence pointless.
We believe in the Universe God created. Duh!!!
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@Elliott
Here is the argument yet again.
Not the argument I was alluding to which was
Then that would make praying to ask for God’s help pretty pointless.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaThe New Testament was eyewitness accounts about Jesus in the Gospels.collected and compiled 325 years after the fact
A collection of eyewitness accounts of Jesus’s generation preserved however long are still eyewitness accounts.
They are certainly more reliable than pure speculation.
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@Tarik
Not the argument I was alluding to which wasThen that would make praying to ask for God’s help pretty pointless.
Let’s put this in context.
You stated that God doesn’t interfere and my reply was, “Then that would make praying to ask for God’s help pretty pointless.” This is valid because if God doesn’t interfere then requesting his help through prayer would be would asking him to interfere and therefore would be pointless.
The say the argument is pointless is simply dismissive and doesn’t refute it. If you disagree with it then please provide a valid argument as to why it is wrong.
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@Elliott
Let’s put this in context.You stated that God doesn’t interfere and my reply was, “Then that would make praying to ask for God’s help pretty pointless.”
Context? Funny how you say this but you don’t contextualize interference. Now if the narrative is you questioning why God doesn’t make everybody believe in Him and my response is He doesn’t interfere then “CONTEXTUALLY” speaking that’s in reference to beliefs meaning He doesn’t interfere with peoples beliefs, so any argument pertaining to praying to Him for help and that being pointless is “simply dismissive” of the narrative being currently discussed and a non sequitur because you were arguing under the pretense of those who don’t believe so a more than appropriate response was to counter that with your own logic by asking why are you praying to a God you don’t believe in, since “CONTEXTUALLY” speaking you were arguing under that pretense.
I really hope I helped bring this full circle.
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@Tarik
Context? Funny how you say this but you don’t contextualize interference. Now if the narrative is you questioning why God doesn’t make everybody believe in Him and my response is He doesn’t interfere then “CONTEXTUALLY” speaking that’s in reference to beliefs meaning He doesn’t interfere with peoples beliefs, so any argument pertaining to praying to Him for help and that being pointless is “simply dismissive” of the narrative being currently discussed and a non sequitur because you were arguing under the pretense of those who don’t believe so a more than appropriate response was to counter that with your own logic by asking why are you praying to a God you don’t believe in, since “CONTEXTUALLY” speaking you were arguing under that pretense.I really hope I helped bring this full circle.
Okay, I’ll accept that but perhaps if you had said that “he doesn’t
interfere in people’s beliefs” rather than the all encompassing “he doesn’t interfere”
that would have been clearer.
I will now address your statement that “He doesn’t interfere
with people’s beliefs.” Many claim that God has made himself known to them, now
if he doesn’t interfere with people’s beliefs that would mean they are mistaken
as by making himself known, this would constitute as interference. Secondly wouldn’t
threats of punishment in an afterlife for not believing also constitute as interfering?
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@Elliott
Okay, I’ll accept that but perhaps if you had said that “he doesn’t interfere in people’s beliefs” rather than the all encompassing “he doesn’t interfere” that would have been clearer.
Okay, but originally I made that comment as a follow up to a more “contextualized” statement https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6115-arguments-regarding-god?page=5&post_number=116
Many claim that God has made himself known to them
Yes, AFTER the faith in Him is already there.
Secondly wouldn’t threats of punishment in an afterlife for not believing also constitute as interfering?
I thought the narrative (and you’ve made this clear verbatim) was this life?
This whole thing about the god thing wanting us to be together.
Thats cool.
But.
Can i assume
Is it ok to say.
God wants me to go to church .
God wants us to go to church.
Thats right hey. To come together of sorts. ?
Yes or No ?
He does hey?
So With this in mind
God should of really known that all the humans ( thats everyone ) wouldn't fit in one building.
We his " children " thats every one.
Can not unite, you know , like come together at one place
You wouldn't think god would be to happy with.
107 of his children or so in this building.
42 in that building .
104 in that one .
78 in that one
66
10,000 in that one
417 person church in that one
7 in that building.
650 in that one .
88 of us meeting in tgat building.
26 over there.
12,864 in that big building there.
23 in this one
EVEN IF THE DENOMINATION IS MATCHED TO PERFECTION. ( Which is a totally different post topic )
He wants us all to be together doesn't he not ? . .
( ask me for 5 scriptures that say/ allude too. god wants us ( thats everyone ) being together ) i Dare ya.
No Please don't asks me.
So again. Does God want us coming together.
Orrrrrrrrrrr. Is he cool with
57 of us here.
1,159 over there.
294 meeting in that one
Another 516 over there.
3 here.
721 at this place there
6 there.
98 over there.
Should i continue?
389 here
70 there.
A dozen over there.
The Bible is real real lucky it didn't go to into any depth what so ever about churches and religious groups. ( yet The first page should read. )
' for example '
We are all catholics.
Or
We are latter-dayers join that group.
When i say bible i mean ya basic king james. ( wich is pretty much the only one right? )
No but . God should of done the bible in a more like, " Joseph smith kind of way " with that way you know what religion you are in straight away.
The KJV bible accommodates 1000 different groups. At least right ?
Thats cool.
But.
Can i assume
Is it ok to say.
God wants me to go to church .
God wants us to go to church.
Thats right hey. To come together of sorts. ?
Yes or No ?
He does hey?
So With this in mind
God should of really known that all the humans ( thats everyone ) wouldn't fit in one building.
We his " children " thats every one.
Can not unite, you know , like come together at one place
You wouldn't think god would be to happy with.
107 of his children or so in this building.
42 in that building .
104 in that one .
78 in that one
66
10,000 in that one
417 person church in that one
7 in that building.
650 in that one .
88 of us meeting in tgat building.
26 over there.
12,864 in that big building there.
23 in this one
EVEN IF THE DENOMINATION IS MATCHED TO PERFECTION. ( Which is a totally different post topic )
He wants us all to be together doesn't he not ? . .
( ask me for 5 scriptures that say/ allude too. god wants us ( thats everyone ) being together ) i Dare ya.
No Please don't asks me.
So again. Does God want us coming together.
Orrrrrrrrrrr. Is he cool with
57 of us here.
1,159 over there.
294 meeting in that one
Another 516 over there.
3 here.
721 at this place there
6 there.
98 over there.
Should i continue?
389 here
70 there.
A dozen over there.
The Bible is real real lucky it didn't go to into any depth what so ever about churches and religious groups. ( yet The first page should read. )
' for example '
We are all catholics.
Or
We are latter-dayers join that group.
When i say bible i mean ya basic king james. ( wich is pretty much the only one right? )
No but . God should of done the bible in a more like, " Joseph smith kind of way " with that way you know what religion you are in straight away.
The KJV bible accommodates 1000 different groups. At least right ?
There is YOUR CHURCH.
Then there is another one two suburbs away.
Same denomination or not
They are Totally different things hey.
Because.
Again.
There is your church.
And there's another one two suburbs over.
I can't explain what i am trying to say hear.
▪○●□■°¤¤▪■°¤○□°•¤¤■○▪▪○●■♤♡◇♧◇¤°⊙⊙⊙○▪¤
Is the church you go to EXACTLY THE SAME as the same denomination one two suburbs over ?
The answer to this would be . ( I DON'T KNOW . ) you dont go to that church two towns over.
Fair enough.
Butttttt
See i don't even think you could mearly assume the same denomination church as yours two suburbs would be anything like your church.
Could ya ?
And that right there is horrible.
I'll work a way to explain this better
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@Tarik
Yes, AFTER the faith in Him is already there.
What about those without faith who have an epiphany moment, where God suddenly makes himself known.
I thought the narrative (and you’ve made this clear verbatim) was this life?
The threats of eternal damnation exist very much in this life.
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@Elliott
--> @TarikNot the argument I was alluding to which wasThen that would make praying to ask for God’s help pretty pointless.Let’s put this in context.You stated that God doesn’t interfere and my reply was, “Then that would make praying to ask for God’s help pretty pointless.” This is valid because if God doesn’t interfere then requesting his help through prayer would be would asking him to interfere and therefore would be pointless.The say the argument is pointless is simply dismissive and doesn’t refute it. If you disagree with it then please provide a valid argument as to why it is wrong.
If he said your argument was pointless that is the reason he disagrees with it. It is wrong because it is pointless.
You need to make a better argument or remain pointless.
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@Elliott
What about those without faith who have an epiphany moment, where God suddenly makes himself known.
I would ask for more details.
The threats of eternal damnation exist very much in this life.
I thought the general notion was the afterlife was eternal not this life.
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@Tarik
I would ask for more details.
There are different definitions of "epiphany" the one I am
using is “a sudden divine manifestation.” You must have come across people who
claim “I wasn’t a believer, then suddenly I felt God’s presence,” or words to
that effect. This is sometimes referred to as a “Damascus moment” after the biblical story of Paul, who converted to Christianity while
travelling the road to Damascus (Acts 9). And if you believe that story, it would be a perfect example of God
interfering with someone’s belief.
I thought the general notion was the afterlife was eternal not this life.
There was a reason I emboldened the word “threats.” It is
the threat of eternal damnation that influences belief, not the actual event,
as by then it would be too late.
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@Elliott
This is sometimes referred to as a “Damascus moment” after the biblical story of Paul, who converted to Christianity while travelling the road to Damascus (Acts 9).
Well in that case I guess God does interfere, I was told on judgement day God gives sinners one last chance to redeem themself (I assume by doing so he makes Himself known in the way your alluding to) and go to heaven (albeit more difficult) I guess that’s another thing to consider.
Well in that case I guess God does interfere, I was told on judgement day God gives sinners one last chance to redeem themself (I assume by doing so he makes Himself known in the way your alluding to) and go to heaven (albeit more difficult) I guess that’s another thing to consider.
That on judgement day God gives sinners one last chance to
redeem themselves is what you have been told and what you belief, and I can accept
that as your belief. It is just that it is at odds with a lot of Christian teaching
I have come across, which doesn’t give you a second chance after death. That is
not to say whose belief is right or wrong.
On that note of agreement perhaps we should leave it there.
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@Elliott
On that note of agreement perhaps we should leave it there.
Theirs still a point of contention that should be addressed and that’s
They were the product of evolution through natural selection and they helped maximise human fitness to survive. There is no need for God.
How do you justify the value of survival without God?
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@Tarik
How do you justify the value of survival without God?
Survival is the basic driving force for all living things,
as to why, probably because it is encoded in the DNA of all species. I’m not sure you can justify a value to it; survival is
simply an end in itself and I don’t see that it necessitates God.
Regarding the value of human survival as a concept, I think that may be a
personal thing and different people may put different values on their existence.
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@Elliott
Survival is the basic driving force for all living things, as to why, probably because it is encoded in the DNA of all species.
Then how do you explain the suicidal and/or neglectful?
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@Tarik
--> @ElliottSurvival is the basic driving force for all living things, as to why, probably because it is encoded in the DNA of all species.Then how do you explain the suicidal and/or neglectful?
Suicide and neglect are necessary to protect the survival of the pack by letting the survival of the fittest continue without being hampered by the weak and sick.
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@Shila
collected and compiled 325 years after the factA collection of eyewitness accounts of Jesus’s generation preserved however long are still eyewitness accounts.They are certainly more reliable than pure speculation.
do you consider the holy qur'an to have equal validity
or perhaps the book of mormon
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@3RU7AL
--> @Shilacollected and compiled 325 years after the factA collection of eyewitness accounts of Jesus’s generation preserved however long are still eyewitness accounts.They are certainly more reliable than pure speculation.do you consider the holy qur'an to have equal validityor perhaps the book of mormon
The Quran and Book of Mormon both don’t claim any eyewitness accounts but speak of visiting angels divinely revealed to and translated by the founder of their religions, Joseph Smith and Prophet Mohammad.
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@Shila
Suicide and neglect are necessary to protect
There’s nothing protective about suicide and/or neglect, that’s counterintuitive.
letting the survival of the fittest continue without being hampered
Again counterintuitive because there’s nothing fit about being hampered.
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@Tarik
Then how do you explain the suicidal and/or neglectful?
Because we are able to overcome that basic instinct. Suicide is one example, another would be those who will die
for a belief, there is also military training, where obedience to orders will transcend
the survival instinct and people will fight and die for a cause that may give them
no personnel benefit.
Another
basic instinct we are able to overcome is sexual reproduction; this is controlled
by abstinence and contraception.
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@Elliott
Regarding the value of human survival as a concept, I think that may be a personal thing and different people may put different values on their existence.
Why do you value yours?