How do we stop giving religious movements airtime and oxygen without talking about them?

Author: Timid8967

Posts

Total: 70
Topic's author
#31
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
Thanks everyone for your comments.  

 I would like to think that I am open to learning new things and to have my views changed when confronted with new ideas.  So thanks. 

When I read some of my posts, I think I do come across a little or a lot  contradictory. So thanks Stephen for pointing that out.  And thanks Zed and others for noting my inconsistency for calling for people to stop giving air time to religious stuff when it is plain I am doing just that.  I have decided I will stop calling for that for it does not make sense. 

I am going to simply request that everyone delete my previous comments since many of them are nonsense and unhelpful.  

And I will try and start again.  

Thanks again. 
Topic's author
#32
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@Stephen
Starting again means - not making assumptions until I can ascertain a lot more details.  

I don't believe in god.  That is my starting point.  Everything else can wait until evidence presents itself. 

Are you a Christian by the way? Do you believe Jesus was real? Do you think Christianity is a danger to children? 
#33
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Timid8967



 I would like to think that I am open to learning new things and to have my views changed when confronted with new ideas. 

Yes I can see you now. You will be recanting everything you have said previously under a new guise and trying to deny everything past said by your old self.

You must think  everyone here is so fkn dumb.  I showed  you that you had  left yourself absolutely no avenue to argue because of all your inconsistences. And this is now your "new" self emerging like a moth from a chrysalis, just like that. 

and to have my views changed when confronted with new ideas.

Yes, you will be a christian of sorts  before too long,is my prophesy. <<<<<<<<<<<TAKE NOTE 


When I read some of my posts, I think I do come across a little or a lot  contradictory. So thanks Stephen for pointing that out. 


 Oh ffs stop with your fraud. I exposed you for the that fake you are. And it wasn't " a little" or even a "lot"   it was multiple times , one after the other,  stark staring  and obvious and only those that didn't want to agree with me chose not to notice.

And thanks Zed and others for noting my inconsistency for calling for people to stop giving air time to religious stuff when it is plain I am doing just that. 

Yes indeed and you had boxed yourself in didn't you? With your hypocritical double standards and inconsistences .  Yet, do you know, even when they were repeatedly exposed by me there were still some here that wouldn't even recognize you for what you are and chose to totally ignore your multiple inconsistences not to mention you "non theism". 

I have decided I will stop calling for that for it does not make sense. 

 Just like that? Nice . How long were you a "non theist" for?    I can't wait to see what now emerges from this cocoon.


I am going to simply request that everyone delete my previous comments since many of them are nonsense and unhelpful.  

Of course you are. You wouldn't want old comments coming back to haunt you, now would you?   Completely Expunged and redacted is what you are asking for. 

A complete new leaf is what you are asking for and this doesn't surprise me one single bit!  What you are really asking for is that I don't keep slapping you with your own stick. But don't hold your breath.  If you say anything that I believe contradicts your "old self" beliefs I will be reminding that whatever it is that you say in your "new self" and asking you if you have now changed your mind of things past said as your "old self".





And I will try and start again.  

 Good. OK.  Do you believe in god? And is Jesus a myth? Is Christianity a danger to my children? Should all bibles be thrown on the fire and eradicated from the face of the earth?




Do you believe Jesus was real?  Do you think Christianity is a danger to children? Are you a Christian by the way?


And you have now - ALREADY!!!!! - gone into full Christian mode by answering questions with questions of your own.

My stance on the scriptures is well known on this forum. And if you had paid as much attention to my posts as you tell us did to tradesecrets, then you would know exactly what that stance is. 


 


#34
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,083
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Timid8967
Spewing nonsense.

Nonsense is as nonsense can be proved.

Such is the absurdity of Religion...Or more correctly, the absurdity of religious argument.
#35
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
@Timid8967
Timid8967 wrote:   It appears that some are here just to spew nonsense.


zedvictor4, wrote: Nonsense is as nonsense can be proved.

Indeed.   He is certainly the one to talk about "spewing nonsense"  isn't he. What double standards, what hypocrisy. 

 Has anyone read his perpetual inconsistent "nonsense"?  HERE>>>#2 & HERE >>> #8 & HERE >>>>#24


And now he's backpedaling just like they all do after being exposed . He  wants to pretend he never said anything at all, about anything!  He wants to brush it all under that carpet and for all his inconsistencies and hypocrisy and double standards "nonsense" to just disappear and pretend it never happened and they have all gone away and he has woken up from a terrible nightmare.. HERE>>>#31 & HERE>> #32 Timid8967


 Lets not forget this piece of attempted slight of hand;  


 I would like to think that I am open to learning new things and to have my views changed when confronted with new ideas.#31 Timid8967

and my response>>

Yes, you will be a christian of sorts  before too long,is my prophesy. <<<<<<<<<<<TAKE NOTE #33  Stephen



Topic's author
#36
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@Stephen
Why would I want to become a christian? I don't believe in god. I do not see any evidence that god exists.  I am a non-theist.  There is no reason that I can think of why I would want to become a christian.  

Brother DThomas is a perfect example of why I don't want to be a christian.  


#37
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
--> @oromagi
Teach science, reason, and history from an early age. 
That's already done. If you want to eradicate religion you have to ban it being practiced. Nobody wants to say that but that is really the only way. 
What will you do with the First Ammendment?

FIRST AMMENDMENT to the US CONSTITUTION: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
#38
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@oromagi
No idea what the atheists want to do with it ask them.
#39
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,083
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
@oromagi
Why would an atheist want to do anything with it?

There's atheism and then there's intolerance.

And some theists are just as intolerant as some atheists are.

Theism and atheism are just labels, that represent varying data output, relative to varying data input...As is an amendment to a constitution.
#40
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
--> @oromagi
No idea what the atheists want to do with it ask them.
I think I can speak for the majority of atheists when I say that the First Amendment ought to preserved, making the plan to ban all religion impossible.
#41
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@oromagi
Then atheists and theist will have to live together. 
#42
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Polytheist-Witch

--> @oromagi
Then atheists and theist will have to live together. 
I'm okay with that.  So I'll continue to endorse teaching science, reason, and history from an early age. 


#43
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Ok cause we already do that.  As I said. 
Topic's author
#44
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@oromagi
--> @oromagi
No idea what the atheists want to do with it ask them.
I think I can speak for the majority of atheists when I say that the First Amendment ought to preserved, making the plan to ban all religion impossible.
orogami,

I like what you write. You make a lot of sense at times.  Would you agree that the majority of atheists would consider freedom of speech as part and parcel of what they believe as atheists or as humans?   I tend to think that religious folk as a rule consider freedom of speech as a bad thing.  I suspect this is why they agree with censorship and laws to do with defamation. 

But along with that position of yours - what do you think of the current "cancel culture" - and the popular view of banning "hate speech"? 


Topic's author
#45
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Then atheists and theist will have to live together. 
What an intriguing idea.  When you say "live" - do you mean exist or tolerate each other and their ideas or in a mutual respect where theists have to submit to the overarching views of the atheist? 

After all, every legal system requires a universal system which dictates right and wrong.  muslims and christians can tolerate each subject to the atheist's moral system or christians and atheists' can tolerate each other subject to islam, Or muslims and atheists can tolerate each other subject to christian's system. The question is whose system will be the authoritative one. 

In Indonesia - everyone is subject to Islam. In America, there is a ongoing battle between the fundies and the lefties. Is the nation Christian or Secular? who' morals will be the norm and who will be subject to them? 


#46
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,359
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Timid8967
Eh, I think just a large number of people in America appreciate freedom of speech as 'Americans.
My first brother for instance is 'very Religious, but also 'very Libertarian.
Topic's author
#47
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@Lemming
Same with my late brother. He was very religious and also very libertarian.  

But don't think it is a bit inconsistent?  How can one believe in one god, and believe in freedom of religion? 


#48
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,359
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Timid8967
Because there's many different interpretations of God, Religion, and how one ought live.
I'd imagine.
Topic's author
#49
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@Lemming
Because there's many different interpretations of God, Religion, and how one ought live.
I'd imagine.

Ok. But let's not talk about others. Let's talk about you.  What is your interpretation of god, religion and how one ought to live? 

Do you think it is inconsistent with your interpretation of god and freedom of speech?
#50
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Timid8967
-> @oromagi
  Would you agree that the majority of atheists would consider freedom of speech as part and parcel of what they believe as atheists or as humans? 
No.  The majority of atheists are Chinese where freedom of speech is considered a privilege granted by the state and not a human right.

 I tend to think that religious folk as a rule consider freedom of speech as a bad thing. 
I doubt that.

I suspect this is why they agree with censorship and laws to do with defamation. 
Keep in mind that from the perspective of the religious they have figured out the secret to eternal happiness and they are just trying to make sure we get a chance to enjoy it.

what do you think of the current "cancel culture"


- and the popular view of banning "hate speech"? 
I am opposed to banning any hate speech.  Hate is a feeling and feelings ought not to be regulated by the state.  I am opposed to adding additional penalties to criminal punishments for hate or any other thoughts or feelings experienced while committing crimes.  We should punish the act and not the motivation.


Topic's author
#51
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@oromagi

  Would you agree that the majority of atheists would consider freedom of speech as part and parcel of what they believe as atheists or as humans? 
No.  The majority of atheists are Chinese where freedom of speech is considered a privilege granted by the state and not a human right.

--> @oromagi
No idea what the atheists want to do with it ask them.
I think I can speak for the majority of atheists when I say that the First Amendment ought to preserved, making the plan to ban all religion impossible.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6101/post-links/265547
Sorry, my mistake. I now realize you are distinguishing between American Atheists and ALL Atheists.   If we to narrow the question to American Atheists, would that make a difference in your opinion? 


 I tend to think that religious folk as a rule consider freedom of speech as a bad thing. 
I doubt that.
Why do doubt this? Religious folk don't generally like other religions having a say. They might tolerate it because they want to be able to do it themselves - but if given a choice, don't you think they would block anyone else from speaking - say like the do in Indonesia or India or Pakistan or Iran? 


I suspect this is why they agree with censorship and laws to do with defamation. 
Keep in mind that from the perspective of the religious they have figured out the secret to eternal happiness and they are just trying to make sure we get a chance to enjoy it.

Which religions think they have figured out the secret to eternal happiness?   Islam means suffering. christianity is more about joy than happiness.  Hinduism and Buddhism both generally think life is about suffering and that nirvana is not eternal happiness - but eternal nothingness.  So I am a little confused by your answer. 


Thanks for your link. 


- and the popular view of banning "hate speech"? 
I am opposed to banning any hate speech.  Hate is a feeling and feelings ought not to be regulated by the state.  I am opposed to adding additional penalties to criminal punishments for hate or any other thoughts or feelings experienced while committing crimes.  We should punish the act and not the motivation.
So you are a libertarian as well.     
#52
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,083
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@oromagi
@Timid8967
Chinese atheism goes a long way to proving that religions are taught contrivances.

And American theism does the same.
#53
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Timid8967
That's up to you to decide how you live not me. 
#54
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Timid8967
-> @oromagi

Sorry, my mistake. I now realize you are distinguishing between American Atheists and ALL Atheists.   If we to narrow the question to American Atheists, would that make a difference in your opinion? 
that was my mistake.  The context was clearly US in my first post.  I would agree that the First Amendment is very important to the history and civil rights of American Athiests.
Is First Amendment part and parcel of Modern American Athiesm?  I don't know. There's a lot of academic and philosophical atheism that values the First  but there's also a lot of anti-religious reaction that does not seem to respect the American Right to Worship.


Which religions think they have figured out the secret to eternal happiness?  
All big modern religions offer eternal happiness as the reward for faithfulness, call it heaven or nirvana.  You might not consider nothingness an eternal and happy state but that is bringing your judgement to the faith, which certainly calls the shedding of sorrows and the absence of care the happiest of states.

I think CANCEL CULTURE is used by FOX News to consolidate the easily frightened Right- the same way ANTIFA or CRITICAL RACE THEORY is used.   There's not much interest in a specific definition or an objective examination of evidence, the words are just meant to continual convince the stupid that they are under attack by vague but powerful forces.

- and the popular view of banning "hate speech"? 
I am opposed to banning any hate speech.  Hate is a feeling and feelings ought not to be regulated by the state.  I am opposed to adding additional penalties to criminal punishments for hate or any other thoughts or feelings experienced while committing crimes.  We should punish the act and not the motivation.
So you are a libertarian as well.     
Nope.  I consider myself a Liberal in the tradition of Locke and Voltaire, Jefferson and Madison.  Libertarians agree with Liberals regarding the priority of humans rights but fail to recognize that only good government of, by, and for the people provides for the protection of those rights.  Libertarians are skeptical of government but fail to offer a worthy replacement for government. 
#55
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@zedvictor4
--> @oromagi @Timid8967
Chinese atheism goes a long way to proving that religions are taught contrivances.

And American theism does the same.
Contrivance seems too cynical.  I don't believe that 84% of humanity is just faking it.
#56
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,623
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@oromagi
Actually, I believe that 84% of humanity  needs an opiate.
#57
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@FLRW
but nobody would call drug abusers insincere regarding their appreciation for drugs, now would they?
#58
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,359
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Timid8967
Ok. But let's not talk about others. Let's talk about you. What is your interpretation of god, religion and how one ought to live?
My interpretation of God, is that God is not something I usually consciously think about or incorporate into my day to day life, or believe in. (Going by some interpretations of God)

My interpretation of Religion, is that it can be found by groups or individuals, but is not something I usually consciously think about or incorporate into my day to day life. (Going by some interpretations of Religion)

My interpretation of ought, I don't there is an objective 'ought to live, I like calling myself a nihilist, but I can't deny that nature and nurture drives us along subjective paths in which we have preferences of ourselves and others.

Do you think it is inconsistent with your interpretation of god and freedom of speech?
No, because I live in a nation that was founded on freedom of speech, freedom of speech is one of our accepted social contracts and traditions.
#59
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,083
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@oromagi
Faking it.

Data in, data storage, data out....Nothing fake about the process.....Just contrived variety, on the basis of the unknown.

11 days later

#60
Nevets
Nevets's avatar
Debates: 35
Posts: 57
0
3
9
Nevets's avatar
Nevets
0
3
9
-->
@Timid8967
Timid wrote...
It was put to me that I am inconsistent in my position in respect of the above question. And perhaps, he is correct in his assessment. 

Nevertheless, until there is a simple manner on how we can do it, then the ordinary cut and thrust of the so called religious discussion on this forum is unhelpful. 

It goes around and around and around - it gets bitter and twisted and nasty. 

I wonder how many others think this is the case or whether I am alone?  Please care to comment. 
I don't think it is the discussing of religion that is the problem. The problem is when people begin pushing their opinion on others. Getting angry. And getting personal, and completely derailing threads.

Therefore, in order to discuss religion at the same time as remaining neutral, practise what one preaches and don't fuel the fire by pushing opinions. Getting angry. Getting personal, or responding to off topic posts simply because one disagrees.

This way one can discuss religion at the same time as remaining neutral, and not adding to the fighting.