Recreating Objectives

Author: EtrnlVw

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#31
fauxlaw
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@secularmerlin
Everything you do is guided either by your preference (which you do not choose) 
Do you realize what a contradiction you've just offered as evidence? My preference is not my choice? Whose is it, then? I abandoned my mommy at 18. I still adore her for all she's done for me, but my choices are my choices, now.  You truly do believe you do not choose what to stuff in your pie hole, don't you? No wonder you probably support medicare for all, aka Oba'acare, aka the ACA. Since everyone else is responsible for YOUR healthcare, everyone should pay for it.

Really? 
#32
Polytheist-Witch
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Natural law is natural law. 
#33
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@Polytheist-Witch
Is extreme cause and effect supposed to be natural law? "Extreme" being the Three-Om argument?
#34
secularmerlin
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@fauxlaw
My preference is not my choice? Whose is it, then? 
It is no ones choice. It is not a choice at all. It is a combination of biology and past experiences. Nothing more. 
#35
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@secularmerlin
biology and past experience 
...did not prepare me to choose to begin eating sushi. Or to write my first novel.
#36
Polytheist-Witch
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@fauxlaw
Not sure there are levels of cause and effect it just is there's no such thing as extreme or little teeny bits. Cause and effect also doesn't apply to every single thing cause and effect applies in situations where there's cause and effect.
#37
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@EtrnlVw
@janesix
It's impossible to figure out what is actually going on.


Matter, suggests a creation event a long time ago, way before popular Arabian GOD hypotheses.


And anyway, BIG BOOM nor Floaty about bloke GOD, can overcome the fundamental contradiction that is,  something from nothing or infinite existence.

Though, something from nothing, negates the Floaty Bloke as the ultimate creator..... And infinite existence, negates the need for a Floaty Bloke as an ultimate creator.

So BIG BOOM......But what went BOOM and why?


And whether or not the Arabian Tales actually correspond with some sort of extra-terrestrial intervention, or just mark a significant turning point in human evolution, is debateable......But nonetheless, the debate defies a whole lot of subsequently acquired logic.


Take the old-speak of the bible for example.....What's the current point of all that old "baloney"?


#38
secularmerlin
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@fauxlaw
biology and past experience 
...did not prepare me to choose to begin eating sushi. Or to write my first novel.
Ah but they did. Without your biological need for sustenance why would you aeat anything and without your past experiences what would you write about?
#39
BrotherDThomas
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@fauxlaw


.
FAUXLAW, the runaway from biblical axioms, and now the #1 Bible fool upon this forum, and the #1 record holder of running away from godly posts, and who has called Jesus a LIAR many times at the expense of committing the Unpardonable Sin,

YOUR CONTINUED BIBLICAL IGNORANCE QUOTE POST #31:  “Do you realize what a contradiction you've just offered as evidence? My preference is not my choice? Whose is it, then? I abandoned my mommy at 18. I still adore her for all she's done for me, but my choices are my choices, now.  You truly do believe you do not choose what to stuff in your pie hole, don't you? No wonder you probably support medicare for all, aka Oba'acare, aka the ACA. Since everyone else is responsible for YOUR healthcare, everyone should pay for it.   Really?” 

FAUXLAW, you hold your title well in being the most dumbfounded of the scriptures, and the #1 runaway from the JUDEO-Christian Bible, well done, AGAIN!

Obviously subsequent to me easily schooling you upon the biblical axiom that you DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT have FREE WILL, whereas this fact is shown in my link below to you, I asked you to debate this topic, but what do you do?  You RAN AWAY in front of the membership with yet another lame little boy non sequitur excuse!
 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5849-the-problem-of-suffering?page=2&post_number=41


Then if your complete Bible stupidity wasn’t enough, you trash medicare for all, and Obamacare, where once again, when will you ever stop calling Jesus a LIAR because He promotes these two entities!  H-E-L-L-O?

JESUS SAID: “Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.” (Proverbs 19:7)

JESUS SAID: “For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.” (Deuteronomy 15:11)

JESUS SAID:  “Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.” (Psalm 82:3)

JESUS SAID: “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. Protect the rights of all who are helpless.” ( Proverbs 31:8)


Then to add more egg upon your face, you trash as well that since everyone else is responsible for Secularmerlin’s healthcare in paying for it, then when you are positioned to receive Social Security, then not for you to be a HYPOCRITE, you should tell the government that you do not want it because everyone paid into it for you, get it Bible fool?

Jesus H. Christ, it is no wonder in why you can’t debate me upon Biblical axioms, and that is because of your total Bible stupidity and inept irrational thought relative to the Christian faith!



#40
BrotherDThomas
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@fauxlaw


.

FAUXLAW, the runaway from biblical axioms, and now the #1 Bible fool upon this forum, and the #1 record holder of running away from godly posts, and who has called Jesus a LIAR many times at the expense of committing the Unpardonable Sin,

I would be remiss if I didn't congratulate you on your ungodly accomplishment of RUNNING AWAY from substantiated biblical axioms presented to you by me, 50 TIMES as embarrassingly shown in this link: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5877-any-thoughts-on-salixes?page=3&post_number=73!  This unbelievable record of yours will last a long time upon this forum, of which will be added too as you continue to step in the proverbial poo! LOL!


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#41
BrotherDThomas
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@secularmerlin


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Secularmerlin,

I am sorry, but you will have to excuse the ever so Bible ignorant FAUXLAW for a certain time period in making any type of Christian sense as he tries to re-group subsequent to me easily Bible Slapping him Silly®️in the post below which has probably set a new recored here upon this prestigious DEBATEART Religion forum.


.


#42
secularmerlin
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@BrotherDThomas
Ok but you really don't have to engage in ANY of my threads. In fact I'd rather you didn't.
#43
BrotherDThomas
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@secularmerlin


Secularmerlin,

So, you are against me in showing how dumbfounded FAUXLAW is in ETERNLVW'S THREAD relative to him disparaging you as shown in my post #39, and in addressing his Bible ignorance relative to medicare for all and Obamacare, and making him an outright HYPOCRITE regarding Social Security? Huh?!

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#44
fauxlaw
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@secularmerlin
Without your biological need for sustenance why would you aeat anything 
Some eat to live. Is that you? I live to eat for the sheer pleasure of its variety and taste, and the company that it virtually always brings. That I derive sustenance from it is not the primary focus of my life. Perhaps it is because I never need to worry from whence my next meal comes, and I contribute to it by the work of my own hands in the garden but, that consequence was by choice, as well. Your petty arguments that I do not choose are simply bothersome flies. I have a swatter. Better still, by my choice, dependably attractive bug zappers are in rooms with outdoor access. My homes are my castles, also by my choice.
#45
BrotherDThomas
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@fauxlaw

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FAUXLAW, the runaway from biblical axioms, and now the #1 Bible fool upon this forum, and the #1 record holder of running away from godly posts, and who has called Jesus a LIAR many times at the expense of committing the Unpardonable Sin,

Relative to your Bible ignorance once again in allegedly having "choice" in your post #44, Jesus rightfully contradicts you once again, what's new? NOTHING ... LOL!

"The steps of a man are established by the Lord, when he delights in his way; (Psalm 37:23)

Awaiting your next Bible faux pas, which will be .... ?


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#46
fauxlaw
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@Polytheist-Witch
cause and effect applies in situations where there's cause and effect.
does that mean effect can cause cause?
#47
Polytheist-Witch
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@fauxlaw
If you don't understand that actions cause things to be effected then your on your own. 
#48
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@BrotherDThomas
In a word yes. 
#49
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@fauxlaw
You do not choose what you do and do not enjoy no matter how hard you try. 
Topic's author
#50
EtrnlVw
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@Theweakeredge
IF I were to accept some god to exist, I suppose there would be certain characteristics I would wish they exhibit

ordinary powerlessness over matter and such
some kind of other beings for checking their authority with the same characteristics
logical
Prioritizing the well-being of creatures based on sentience
allows change within their doctrine
protects the creatures it rules over
teaching the creatures how to advance & prosper
incorruptible
unaging
willing to pass on power based on traits similar to their own
To consisely answer the question:
They must act in the best interest of sentient creatures
They must consider and accept the view of similarly rules creatures
They must be beings of ordinary-human manipulation of matter/space

Thank you Theweakeredge as one who was willing to engage the topic as it is! I was actually hoping you would because I know you understand/resonate with freedom and you are intelligent enough to understand what I'm doing here.
My first question, if God exists....do you believe God to fit any of these stipulations as our reality is? I realize for right now, we are stuck in this low level physical world so just keep that in mind when thinking about it. Another thing I would want you to consider is that religion has pushed doctrine, so in essence there may be more freedom than any of us realize. We just may not know it because religious conquest has been on the forefront, you are a perfect example of what I wanted to establish here.

My next question is about this...."ordinary powerlessness over matter and such, They must be beings of ordinary-human manipulation of matter/space"....
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're getting at, is this something you feel is logical? if creation is a product of a Creator, then it is precisely the power over matter that allows for creation, and the manipulation over matter that signifies and confirms the intelligence behind processes and why they occur. I'm confused at why you would be opposed to that, unless I'm not getting what you're saying.

#51
fauxlaw
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@Polytheist-Witch
If you don't understand that actions cause things
My post #23 does not say exactly that; that actions cause things? Such as eating from trees whose fruit has consequence? And, just as Neo learned in Matrix that bending spoons with one's mind is no great shake, but to realize there is no spoon is the earth-shaker of consequence, so was Eve's realization that death, the consequence of her action of eating a particular fruit, and her convincing of Adam, that ultimately, death is the last enemy, and of such there will be nothing. It all started with a choice, and the choices just increase by generation.
#52
fauxlaw
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@secularmerlin
You do not choose what you do and do not enjoy no matter how hard you try. 
I refer you to my post #51. We simply choose to disagree. Sorry, I prefer my choice.
#53
Theweakeredge
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@EtrnlVw
Because power leads to corruption, especially PHYSICAL power, that's why I would want any god to have similarly just gods to rule over them - as a back up. But in order to reduce the chances of such corruption ever happening, then they do not have the direct ability to create or destroy. Yes yes they can be superhuman and all that, but they are not so far above humans that we can't even comprehend their power.

That's a recipe for disaster, we fear what we don't understand and you should never have to fear the one protecting you
#54
secularmerlin
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@fauxlaw
Do you know what it makes one when one agrees to disagree with the facts?

It makes one incorrect. 
#55
Lemming
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@EtrnlVw
@Post #1
So, if I understand your post correctly, you're asking what would any of us 'do as an existence with power over all of existence?

I suppose there's a 'large number of video games in which people create worlds, interact with worlds.
Whether it's making pleasant theme parks or death traps, such as in Rollercoaster Tycoon,
Build cities orderly, or unleash calamities upon them, such as in Sim City.
. . .
But the person at the console 'understands that these aren't 'real people.
. . 
Maybe 'rulers/'dictators in real life would be the closest glimpse of how humans might organize worlds.
Caligula,
Marcus Aurelius, 
Nero,
Qin Shi Huang,
Pol Pot,
Hammurabi,
Madness, Philosophy, Debauchery, Legalism, Genocide, Equality.

There's probably more 'good ruler examples, but I don't know enough history.
I suppose the flaw in using rulers, is that they're all aware of outside 'pressure, forces, 'others.
But different rulers have had different hopes for their people.
Some being (No relation to earlier ruler list)
Wishing well,
Indifferent,
Rapacious,
Hateful,
hopeful.
. . .
I suppose 'my problem with the question is I find it difficult to assign 'qualities to God, perhaps because I'm an atheist and reject the idea so,
Perhaps I lack imagination.
But if God possesses some 'quality such as love, or hate, I have difficulty in seeing him as more than a human with powers.
If he's 'existence itself, then to me that's simply existence.
If he's some ideal, then that's simply a preference idolized. 
. . .
 Ach, I'm rambling.
To the main question then,
My world would be nothing but myself and occasionally whatever bit of entertainment I wished to be.
I don't 'prefer the morality in creating 'others.

(edit)
Or perhaps the question has more to do with 'objectives such as laws of nature, physics. . .
Eh, I find it difficult to break my mold.
'Current reality as I understand it, is what I understand.
#56
Outplayz
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@EtrnlVw
 just say whatever it is that pops into your thoughts.
Oh man, you had to say this didn't you. Well, you know my answer... i'm going to be a vampire and anyone that wants to join, be my victim, enemy, wars, death, killing, happiness, all of it... i want that all, plus being a vampire. I want to go though the struggle of drinking human blood, i want to go through the regret of those i eat, i want that long stretch of peace and love, then... vampire hunters manifest to screw me for a couple years. One thing i found fun i can add to this is being a vampire in a super-hero type reality... therefore, i'd be the most powerful super-hero since they'd be my food. But again, the above would matter... i'd want to win, and get my ass kicked. What else can you ask for really? As to god, i'd hope he find my reality fun and comes and hangs out... either as an enemy (it be fun punching god), my vampire slave, my vampire slave bitch, or just a friend... who knows, whatever god's feeling. Not my choice =) 
#57
fauxlaw
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@secularmerlin
Do you know what it makes when one insists he has no choices?

A prisoner.

Enjoy your self-imposed limitations; they're yours.
#58
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@fauxlaw
Do you know what it makes when one insists he has no choices?
Choice and free will are not the same thing.

#59
secularmerlin
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@fauxlaw
I think you misunderstood. Given that we do not have freewill personal freedom under the law becomes more important not less.
#60
fauxlaw
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@Double_R
Choice and free will are not the same thing.
Why have free will if you're going to just sit on the fence, anyway? There are three kinds of people:

1. Make things happen
2. Watch what happens
3. Wonder what happened.

The first kind have free will, and choose to make things happen.

The second & third sit on the fence, willingly abdicating both free will and choice, and accomplish nothing. The second kind may actually benefit from wha the first kind do, but do not contribute to making. The third kind are a lost cause altogether.

You clearly support 2 & 3. Congratulations.