When you see this meme, what comes to mind/what are your thoughts on it? What do you think it's trying to communicate? Who are the two spidermen representative of?
A Political Turing Test
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When you see this meme, what comes to mind/what are your thoughts on it?
That it's a funny picture regardless of context and I give a sensible chuckle.
What do you think it's trying to communicate?
That each side blames the other, ignoring the real threat behind them: the police. (j/k on that last part).
Who are the two spidermen representative of?
The left and the right.
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@Buddamoose
The two are not the same except in minds of those who think they can be apolitical.
It is dishonesty to self to believe the two are the same.
Within each of us there is complexity involved and this complexity shows more in those who believe they can be apolitical.
The fence is curvy meandering complexity and all human ego will fall one way or the other --left or right, IN or OUT--- over time.
When there are three parties then the fence splits bifurication Y occurs.
This is how Universe operates. Multiplication-by-division.
Yet we are still all one human species. We all still share the same common traits of one Earth and the ecological environment that sustains us all.
The two are the same in that we share so much in common. The problem occurs on how we go forward into the future on Spaceship Earth
Ego based self interests only, or, one-for-all and all-for-one?
With 200 plus nations we have 200 plus captains trying to steer Space-ship Earth.
It just occurred to me, that, via the fat middle-clase, octahedral <> scenario, we have four captains cooperating to steer Spaceship Earth.
1} one captain from higherest standard of living viewpoint,
2} on captain from lowest standard livign viewpoint,
3} 4 captains from the fat middle{ girth } fat middlle-class.
This is the 6 vertexes/points/nodes of the octahedron < >
two of them are at diametric opposites <--diameter--> highest and lowest standard of living,
four of them around the center { the square girth } [ ]
Since each is a bilateral set of two hemispheres we total 12 centers of action i.e. 2 * 6 = 12
.........* *............higher standard
* *--* *--* *--* *...girth/middle class
.........* *.............lower standard
One Earth, One Love, Lets Get Together and Feel Alright { Bob Marley }
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@mustardness
The two are not the same except in minds of those who think they can be apolitical.
It's not saying the the left and the right is the same. It's illustrating liberals and conservatives both play the blame game over things where the blame is not truly merited.
This is what the Turing test is. As this meme perfectly encapsulates the ability to detect nuance and not, as you did, regress into lunacy. It also highlights how one personally views politics and exposes whether or not they are on the far sides of the political spectrum.
Conservatives and moderates see this meme and see Meanwhile, far-leftists see the meme and immediately jumped to, "how dare you compare far left groups like antifa to Nazis" exposing in turn that they themselves view the left and the right as those two groups, when that's far far far from the case.
Most Americans are moderates and independents. Followed by those that fall into the conservative and liberal camps. Followed by far left and far right identitarians. Progressive identitarians are somewhere around 8% of voters, "right wing" identitarians are even less, likely under a single percentage point.
As in very few people adhere to the two extremes, so viewing the meme as representative of the two extremes only belies the person who views that, is themselves an extreme ideologue, as they're incapable of detecting anything else due to their inconsistent with reality worldview.
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@drafterman
That each side blames the other, ignoring the real threat behind them
Somewhat fmpov yes. But it's less "ignoring the real threat" and more manufacturing of a threat to score political points and advance an agenda. Extremist ideologues are a small percentage of total voters, yet are controlling the narrative. When most people realize we're in this together for better or worse and want to see the left and the right stop pushing themselves to extremes and come back to the center.
On a side note,
This is why liberals are starting to abandon the Dem party, because they're getting too extreme. Some go to the GoP, most who are leaving the left though, particularly classic liberals, just become independents and/or check out of politics altogether it seems.
Engagement with content when comparing left vs right, shows vastly more engagement from conservatives, while Dems continue to drop in engagement. This ties into the upcoming midterms, because its mirroring 2016 in how polling showed Dems as clear winners, but engagement with media content is actually showing the opposite, again, just like in 2016.
It's to the point where even pollsters and places like Vox are seeing the signs and starting to hit the panic button. As a recent article stated, "there's still a 45% or so chance that Dems don't gain majority in the house, and an even greater chance Republicans gain seats in the Senate. Basically, pollsters and media are seeing the signs on the wall and have to admit their predictions are no better than if you flipped a coin to predict races.
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@Buddamoose
The "ignoring the real threat" was part of the joke.
But I don't think the attempting bombings was a manufactured threat.
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@drafterman
But I don't think the attempting bombings was a manufactured threat.
You misunderstand, im not saying the bombs were a false flag. Rather, whats being manufactured is the blame game, and trying to present the other side as the threat that has truly caused it. When such blame is only sensibly placed when there is direct incitement to action. Neither conservatives nor liberals condone this kind of stuff, yet it sure doesn't stop the blame game from being played.
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@Buddamoose
I don't think like acting that these events are completely random with no discernible causal factors is particularly honest.
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@drafterman
You forgot the word negligible.
The point of the meme is that it's way overblown.
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@drafterman
I never said they were random, nor that there aren't causal factors involved. Again, blaming violence on an independent actor unless they are directly inciting it is not sensible. That's what I'm saying, and that's what's going on on both sides. For example, Maxine Waters would not be to blame if one of her supporters acted violently against a representative, despite her urging confrontation, she wasn't urging violent confrontation. So if a nutjob takes that further and violently attacks a representative, that's on the person who acted violently, not her. As her call was to protest, not violently attack.
The blame game just ends in both sides looking shitty basically.
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@Greyparrot
I never intended to include the word "negligible."
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@drafterman
That's a problem. It's how the fake news spins a narrative by omitting important key modifiers.I never intended to include the word "negligible."
Again, blaming violence on an independent actor unless they are directly inciting it is not sensible. That's what I'm saying, and that's what's going on on both sides.
For legal blame, sure. But legal blame is the last line of defense. Other kinds of blame, such as social blame, or moral blame, or political blame, necessarily has a much lower standard.
For example, Maxine Waters would not be to blame if one of her supporters acted violently against a representative, despite her urging confrontation, she wasn't urging violent confrontation.
Agreed. But if they are urging violent confrontation, then I would say they are to blame, even if it wasn't "direct."
So if a nutjob takes that further and violently attacks a representative, that's on the person who acted violently, not her. As her call was to protest, not violently attack.
Blame is not a 0-sum game. Saying that a person is to blame doesn't mean other people aren't also to blame.
The blame game just ends in both sides looking shitty basically.
I think there is a lot of false equivocation here. For example, comparing people urging non-violent protests being compared equally to people encouraging violence at almost every opportunity.
Not that you're doing that.
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@Greyparrot
I'm not the news?
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@Buddamoose
The one in front of the police van, is clearly a statist. He seems to be in cahoots with the state.
Democrats vs Republicans
Democrats point blame on Trump
Republicans point blame on Dems for not doing enough to secure safety
Dems vs Republicans is like a very juicy episode of Keeping Up With The Kardashians. You don't know who got mad at who and why they are even mad. All you know is that they shit talk each other and spread gossip
comparing people urging non-violent protests being compared equally to people encouraging violence at almost every opportunity.
People do have a tendency to pick out the violent extremes on either side and equate that with the entirety of that side. That's what the Turing test is in this. It's highlights how one views American politics.
If your wrapped up in a kind of theological view where one side is clearly evil and the other is a paragon of virtue, one will not find the humor in it. It'll immediately be viewed as falsely equating themselves to {insert party boogeyman}.
But if they are urging violent confrontation, then I would say they are to blame, even if it wasn't "direct".
by direct I don't mean just urging violence against a specific person. General urging of violence would be included, or umbrella groupings in whatever form that may be. I also include the non-imminent to a certain degree.
If you mean something else, I'd be curious as to what would constitute as "indirect" urging of violence that would merit blame 😮.
If you mean something else, I'd be curious as to what would constitute as "indirect" urging of violence that would merit blame 😮.
My use of directness was more in regards to the attenuation between "cause" and "effect." That is, The source of the call for violence was removed/distanced from the people that implement it.
Direct: I tell you, directly, to go cause violence (whether or not I specify a specific target)
Indirect: I shout out "go cause violence" and you hear about it on TV (whether or not I specify a specific target)
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@Buddamoose
Ignoramuses who believe that authoritarian leftists and authoritarian rightists are the same because they dislike democracy.
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@Buddamoose
As in very few people adhere to the two extremes
Duhh, see my octahedral < | > fat middle/girth class. You will remain in state of praise-blame closed loop of confusion until you can place your ego * i * to the side and approach rational, logical common sense scenarios with an open{ not narrow } mind. Simple to say, hard for many to apply.
One Earth{ heart }, One Love { fertilized egg }, Lets Get Together{ one race } and Feel Alright { groovy } .... Bob Marley....
With 200 plus nations we have 200 plus captains trying to steer Space-ship Earth.
It just occurred to me, that, via the fat middle-clase, octahedral < | > scenario, we have four captains cooperating to steer Spaceship Earth.
1} one captain from higherest standard of living viewpoint,
2} on captain from lowest standard living viewpoint,
3} 4 captains from the fat middle{ girth } fat middlle-class.
This is the 6 vertexes/points/nodes of the octahedron < >
two of them are at diametric opposites <--diameter--> highest and lowest standard of living,
four of them around the center { the square girth } [ ]
Since each is a bilateral * * set of two hemispheres we total 12 centers of action i.e. 2 * 6 = 12
.........* *............higher standard ---minimize end set
* *--* *--* *--* *...girth/middle class --maximize middle-girth set
.........* *.............lower standard --minimize end set
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@mustardness
Orange man bad
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@Buddamoose
It's obvious what the intended message is: both left and right are equally guilty of political violence, yet each exclusively blames the other for it.
I think it's a misguided message. We need to avoid getting overly attached to this notion of "both sides -ism." Becoming attached to one's identity as a centrist is no better than becoming attached to one's identity as a leftist or rightist. Any such attachments ultimately serve to impede one's capacity for rational thought. The reality is that the Democratic and Republican parties are two separate organizations with two very different histories, and as a result, each has developed its own unique set of problems over time (although there is undeniably a lot of overlap).
Political violence is clearly more of a right-wing problem. The death toll statistics speak for themselves. Due to a variety of historical and cultural reasons, there is a tendency towards political violence on the fringes of the right that has no real counterpart on the left. The worst the left has is Antifa, which is an evil but pathetically inept organization.
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@Tyrone
Political violence is clearly more of a right-wing problem. The death toll statistics speak for themselves. Due to a variety of historical and cultural reasons, there is a tendency towards political violence on the fringes of the right that has no real counterpart on the left. The worst the left has is Antifa, which is an evil but pathetically inept organization.
Antifa has shed many less gallons of blood than the pathetic KKK in the last 2 years.
Antifa good.
Orange man bad.
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@Buddamoose
I think that it was so offensive to the left because it immediately undermined one of the key underpinnings of their political outlook. Most people on the left see themselves as more intelligent than those on the right. They see those on the right as misguided, or just too dumb to grasp their outlook. What the mass use of the NPC meme did was demonstrate in an incontrovertible way that many people on the right are familiar enough with leftist arguments and ideology to predict the their responses before they actually give them. This undermines the mass psychology of the left, which leans especially heavy on the self-perception of the self as 'better' which Hoffer mentions in his works on mass movements, and so they went a little berserk over it. On the right, the mechanism through which that mass psychology is created is a bit different, so the NPC meme isn't nearly as potent when used in reverse. The exception to this is the Ben Shapiro-esque wing of the new right, which does rely on stoking that self-perception effect and so is somewhat open to an angle of attack which breaks down their formulaic thinking.
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@Tyrone
I disagree with this, and I actually don't understand how you can believe this in light of literal firing squads on both sides in relatively recent history. The left and right fringes are both more than capable of political violence, have both historically employed political violence, and are now both much more neutered (in the West) than they were previously. This is because they exist in a decadent, sprawling empire that keeps its populace in a more or less sedate, contented state through a combination of ideological, sensory, and electronic diversion.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
I'm only talking about very recent history. As in, the past decade.
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@Tyrone
In the past decade, violence has been largely restricted to the right because the left is capable of using the state as a violent apparatus to, for example, control how parents raise their children or enforce leftist ideas of ideal family structure through court divorce settlements. The left has also stopped being anti-corporate, so a right wing radical has no remaining recourse if, for example, WalMart is causing multi-generational small businesses to close down or drugs are flooding into their town, or crime is accompanying waves of migrants. A generalized leftist who wants to enforce his program can do so through legal means, and as they continue to strip the right of any legitimate means to express political will on the right, that will will eventually be expressed violently. Trump's takeover of the Republican party was largely an attempt to resolve this within the bounds of the legitimized system, and leftist attempts to defang Trump's administration are causing pressure to build again.
But that doesn't mean that the left isn't violent, only that their violence is legitimized. And even if it is legitimized, I can't think of any act of political violence which was more shocking and credibly threatening than that attempt to shoot up a group of Republican congressmen a while ago.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
I agree with all of that. As I said, each side has its own set of flaws, and one of the left's biggest flaws is its absolute intolerance for dissenting viewpoints.