half of GOP men won't get vaccinated- why the stupidity?

I said society seems to brush off 550,000 covid deaths.

Cuomo shut down New York in March-April, back when very little was known about the virus,

Can you show me the data you have where it says vaccines have no impact on contracting or spreading the virus?

Key Points

• COVID-19 vaccines currently authorized in the United States are effective against COVID-19, including severe disease.
  
• Preliminary evidence suggests that the currently authorized COVID-19 vaccines may provide some protection against a variety of strains, including B.1.1.7 (originally identified in the United Kingdom). However, reduced antibody neutralization and efficacy have been observed for the B.1.351 strain (originally identified in South Africa).
  
• A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others. However, further investigation is ongoing.
  
• Modeling studies suggest that preventive measures such as mask use and social distancing will continue to be important during vaccine implementation. However, there are ways to take a balanced approach by allowing vaccinated people to resume some lower-risk activities.
  
• Taking steps towards relaxing certain measures for vaccinated persons may help improve COVID-19 vaccine acceptance and uptake.
  
• The risks of SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others. However, the benefits of relaxing some measures such as quarantine requirements and reducing social isolation may outweigh the residual risk of fully vaccinated people becoming ill with COVID-19 or transmitting the virus to others.
  
• Guidance for fully vaccinated people is available and will continue to be updated as more information becomes available.
  

Fully vaccinated people can:

• Visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing
  
• Visit with unvaccinated people from a single household who are at low risk for severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing
  
• Refrain from quarantine and testing following a known exposure if asymptomatic
  

For now, fully vaccinated people should continue to:

• Take precautions in public like wearing a well-fitted mask and physical distancing
  
• Wear masks, practice physical distancing, and adhere to other prevention measures when visiting with unvaccinated people who are at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease or who have an unvaccinated household member who is at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease
  
• Wear masks, maintain physical distance, and practice other prevention measures when visiting with unvaccinated people from multiple households
  
• Avoid medium- and large-sized in-person gatherings
  
• Get tested if experiencing COVID-19 symptoms
  
• Follow guidance issued by individual employers
  
• Follow CDC and health department travel requirements and recommendations
  

Why didn't you highlight the part of your source that says "A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others." Is it because it goes against your claim that vaccines have NO IMPACT on transmission?  Very dishonest. 

The same source also says "While some prevention measures will continue to be necessary regardless of vaccination status, fully vaccinated persons may be able to engage in some activities with low or reduced risk of acquiring or transmitting COVID-19." 

Nothing you put in bold from the second source proves in any way that vaccines have no effect on transmission. It says vaccinated people still have to follow social distancing protocols, wear masks, and follow other guidelines which is obviously to slow the spread among UNVACCINATED PEOPLE. But even if you could transmit covid with the vaccine doesn't mean vaccines have NO IMPACT. 

The vaccine prevents neither the contraction nor the spread of the virus. 

you should just admit that your position is incoherent.

"my immune system might not work properly therefore i'm not getting the vaccine" is one of the self evidently stupidest things i've heard lately. 

A new CDC study provides strong evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections in real-world conditions among health care personnel, first responders, and other essential workers.

So let's once again look at my argument:

The vaccine prevents neither the contraction nor the spread of the virus. 

Does the vaccine prevent the contraction of the virus? According to the CDC references, NO. Does the vaccine prevent the spread of the virus? According, once again, to the the CDC references, NO.

Your CDC source says the vaccine reduces the risk of viral spread,  so explain how that proves your point that the vaccine does not prevent spread given the reduced risk.

Why would the risk be reduced if there is no impact on transmission. 

The CDC also said one dose of the Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 80 percent effective at preventing infection,

Also, if people are fighting off covid because they have antibodies already introduced from the vaccine

that is not something that can  be accomplished just by washing your hands.

You are free to keep preaching your anti vax fear mongering,

but expecting the CDC to support that makes no sense

At this time they are still researching the effectiveness but have not determined there is no impact

so you are just drawing that conclusion that vaccines are useless while simultaneously saying the trials are not substantive or long enough.

If they are not long enough then how can you be certain they are useless. 

Straw man. I never said they were the same.

Not a non sequitur. Throughout this thread you have been saying that covid vaccines were futile and getting them wouldn't help old people or immunocompromised people because they don't affect spread, so there was no point in most people getting the covid vax.

Now you want to make it sound as if

the only thing you claimed is "the vaccine prevents neither the contraction or spread of the virus"  which is fine because you haven't offered any proof that's true anyway. 

So the CDC is only reporting data on people they've actually studied.

Funny

that you think

the CDC is such a shoddy source

that it's the one you chose when I asked you for a source.

I said  vaccines help the body recognize spike proteins and create antibodies. 

You said a more practical response instead of vaccination is "to just simply practice good hygiene (and nutrition.)" And I said washing your hands doesn't help create antibodies. So no you did not say that washing hands creates antibodies, but you're saying washing hands is "a more practical response" which is not true for many people.

But yes I did engage you, and you did not even answer the first question I asked you when you said most people in "hotbeds" have already had covid. I asked you how you came to that conclusion and you chose to ignore that question. 

If we are to take the epidemicity of this virus seriously, then that would suggest that most who live in the "hotbeds" have been exposed.

No, the CDC does not support your argument. I asked if you can show me the data you have where it says vaccines have no impact on contracting or spreading the virus.

The vaccine prevents neither the contraction nor the spread of the virus. 

You did not explicitly use the word "useless."

it looks like i'm not the only one who had trouble communicating with athias, here is something he said that makes it look like was saying vaccines are pointless... 

"One's injecting oneself with a vaccine provides little more than a placebo effect, except unlike a placebo, vaccines can harm." 

but i think if you look at the context, he was saying that, only if the person's immune system didn't work properly. he seemed to make it sound like we might as well assume we are all immuno compromised. 

I don't feel particularly invulnerable. I just know the risks of the pharmacological effects of these vaccines, not to mention that I believe in the resiliency of the immune system. One of the first books I read as a child was my mother's book on Pathology. So as a kid I developed the habit of practicing good hygiene especially with the knowledge of how infections transmit. I'm not stating one shouldn't take the vaccine if that is what one has decided, though personally I would not. But to claim one is a "stupid GOP'er" for neither wanting nor intending to take the vaccine is another thing.

Mr A is probably Trypanophobic.

So as long as they can slip a strawman or non-sequitur into there argument, it will temporarily  assuage their fears.

Though, good debating isn't necessarily about being honest..........It's about effectivity.

Covid, blood clot, cancer, heart failure.....You gotta go some time.

Choices, choices.

you have a hundred percent chance of not dying as a benefit.

 it has 100% efficacy against hospitalization and death from the virus.