-->
@Unpopular
What do you think the word "falsify" means?
Whatever happened to free market capitalism?
Posts
Total:
131
-->
@Unpopular
The link you provided contradicts everything you have said.
1. No it does not. I see you are not interested in understanding the science, data or methods of analysis for the issues implicated by your claims.
2. I sent you two links. Not one.
-->
@Double_R
If by people who “agree with me” you are referring to people who believe that the way to sort through our differing viewpoints is via the use of reason... then yes that’s what I’m saying. If you’re in a group assigned to figure out an extremely complex math problem and one of your colleagues doesn’t accept that 2+2=4, I’m pretty sure you’re not going to give that person a seat at the table either.
But basic math has a clearly objective answer, right? Maybe I'm not being clear so let me replay our convo a bit
Your position is that yes, things that are offensive should be banned, and also that the left doesn't produce offensive works on par with that of the right. I said well, here's an example of a leftist book that offends me. You said, that's not offensive! I replied, who gets to decide? You reply: logical people. Well who gets to decide that, lol. I like to think I'm pretty logical. I'm sure I'm wrong about some stuff. But I'm not dumb enough to not know that 2 + 2 = 4. But according to you I'm not someone who believes in "reasoned deliberation." Well okay. But who is, and how can we tell?
believe I made myself clear in my last comment. I do like seeing people I strongly disagree with “silenced”... when it’s in the context of the free market. I have no doubt you do as well, because that’s not nearly the same thing as it happening via the government. There’s no central authority in the free market. There’s no referee making the decisions for everyone.
NO. I do NOT like it when people are silenced, whatever the mechanism. I believe that allowing people to speak their minds, and engage in reasoned debate, is a moral imperative and that shutting down on side pre-emptively is wrong no matter what you think of their ideas. I don't care about the mechanism that much, it makes little difference to me if speech is banned through government or through private actors coordinating to shut down a political agenda they personally disagree with.
BTW, people made these same kinds of arguments against civil rights. "Well it's private property, neighborhoods can have restricted covenant and restaurants can prohibit blacks, it's a free market." All those famous lunch-counter sit in's were people trespassing on private property, against the wishes of the owners.
And just so everyone is aware I'm not comparing some books being kicked off Amazon to Jim Crow laws, just showing that "its the free market!" isn't really a good argument because unless we're anarcho capitalists we have higher values.
There’s no referee making the decisions for everyone. If no one wants to hear what you have to say I’m pretty sure you’re the problem.
This seems disingenuous to me, so I'm probably missing something. The point is that people DO want to hear what these people have to say, but corporations are doing their best to make that not happen. It has absolutely nothing to do with these ideas not being of interest to people
With that said, can you explain to me who exactly is being silenced? The right lost his mind when Trump was banned by all the big tech companies but I could have sworn that was him on my TV screen at Cpac and then being talked about by all the news channels afterward, and I’m pretty sure that was him on Fox News talking to Maria Bartiromo the other night. Crazy how loud his platform is for a silenced person.
Yeah you say this because you aren't active in right wing spaces. And I don't blame you, if that isn't your thing...but trust me, it goes a lot deeper than Trump. To speak of social media companies in particular, almost all interesting right wing content creators were banned from YouTube over the 2016-2020 period, twitter regularly purges right wing accounts, lots and lots of right-leaning subreddits have been banned, and now companies are beginning the process of banning books that don't toe the line. Right before the election a negative story about Joe Biden came out in the New York Post and not only did the Post have its social media accounts locked for reporting on it, but users were not allowed to share links to the story. Keep in mind that these companies employ like 90%+ democrats and it's only human to show more leeway to your own "side."
When it comes to the day to day there really is a deep anxiety about cancel culture or being Brendan Eich'd. Recently you're even seeing leftists get fired from jobs for stupid tweets they made in 2009 or something. See this poll...Americans of all stripes are afraid to express their political views, but Republicans most of all. America really has become a toxic, shitty culture to live in https://www.cato.org/survey-reports/poll-62-americans-say-they-have-political-views-theyre-afraid-share
Intimidation tactics? I believe you mean people on the left have been using their freedom of speech.
No, I'm talking about them getting people fired from their jobs for expressing (or increasingly just privately holding) views that were mainstream like three or four years ago. You yourself said I shouldn't be allowed to be a teacher. Well, what if I am? Should I be fired for this conversation?
-->
@zedvictor4
maybe
-->
@Greyparrot
those are swamp republicans, conservatives need to focus on defending American culture, or rather restoring it because it is all gone
-->
@Dr.Franklin
those are swamp republicans, conservatives need to focus on defending American culture, or rather restoring it because it is all gone
Those Republicans are a fringe group. Washington DC has uncontested monopoly power. There won't be another mistake like Trump again.
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Culture doesn't go Doc.........It just evolves.
Same in Russia.
What you mean is....You personally haven't or don't want to keep up with 21st century values and liberal ideas.
You're what is colloquially known as an old fart...... Me too probably.
Though if people want to cut of their penises and call themselves Daphne, doesn't worry me in the slightest.
As long as it's not made compulsory.
-->
@coal
What do you think the word "falsify" means?
The word falsify means "to prove a statement to be false." You cannot prove any of those premises to be false, and you cannot prove the logical conclusion to be false. That is why I am right and you are wrong. See the research I cited or re-read the explanation if you need to.
1. No it does not. I see you are not interested in understanding the science, data or methods of analysis for the issues implicated by your claims.2. I sent you two links. Not one.
Why should I care about the second link when you won't address the first.
The source you sent quite literally says the exact opposite of what you are saying. It reads, "without business closures, cases and deaths would be about 40% higher at the end of May." You have done nothing at all to explain how your source actually backs you up despite you saying the exact opposite. You haven't even tried. You haven't referenced its contents or statements even once ever since I pointed out your mistake. And the reason you have done nothing to explain how your source backs you up despite saying the exact opposite, is because you can't. Thus you are trying to save face or change the subject with that "I sent two links" and "what do you think the word falsify means" nonsense. There is no need, I have no interest in gloating.
-->
@Unpopular
lol it seems you're missing the other half of the article . . . . .
-->
@coal
This desperate effort to distract is not working. You have now replied to me four separate times with no attempt at all to explain how your link backs you up despite saying the exact opposite, lol.
To save face, you should shrink away quietly. The petty one line responses with no substance only serve as a reminder that you do not come equipped with any facts.
I have now proven you wrong with a source linking to research (you didn't respond), logic premises and conclusion (you didn't respond), and a very long explanation for an extremely simple concept about how people staying at home and not working or traveling slows the spread of a virus...... because it limits their contact and exposure to others (you didn't respond). It is pretty clear that you are not interested in having a discussion and so I am no longer interested either. Have a great day.
-->
@Unpopular
Your attitude is unavailing. It is at this point obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about, and any effort I made to explain any of this to you would be a waste of my time.
If you decide you want to understand, let me know.
-->
@coal
Your attitude is unavailing.
You have been nothing but condescending.
It is at this point obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about,
It has been obvious for awhile now that you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you decide you want to understand, let me know.
I asked you to explain multiple times. You replied in 5 separate posts with no explanation at all.
-->
@thett3
Your position is that yes, things that are offensive should be banned, and also that the left doesn't produce offensive works on par with that of the right. I said well, here's an example of a leftist book that offends me. You said, that's not offensive! I replied, who gets to decide? You reply: logical people. Well who gets to decide that
First of all, I’m not arguing on whether anything should be banned. This conversation is about the free market, not my opinion regarding various content.
Second, we keep using the word “banned” which is a very unclear way to go about this conversation. Again, we’re talking about the free market. Nothing can be banned by the free market unless it is outlawed (in which case we have a real first amendment issue) or unless it is rejected by the entirety of society. What I’m arguing is that of the entirety of society rejects an idea, then tough shit. No one else is obligated to sell or allow your ideas in their spaces.
When I commented on reasoned deliberation, that was in the context of the individual organizations making their own choices and was a response to the absurdity of claiming that two things are equal just because you feel offended by one of them. We don’t respect someone else’s emotional reactions merely because they proclaim them. We see what they are offended by and apply common sense. You don’t need to convince me to feel just as offended, just show that you have some real world basis. If you take issue with that then I don’t know what to tell you, I’m not about to attempt a rational discussion with someone who does not accept reason as the arbiter of what is acceptable.
I believe that allowing people to speak their minds, and engage in reasoned debate, is a moral imperative and that shutting down on side pre-emptively is wrong no matter what you think of their ideas.
But this isn’t the conversation. This thread is about the free market. In a free market no one has the power to shut down any side, which is why no one has the responsibility to uphold them. That’s the whole point. You are acting like corporate America is a monolith, as if they’re all linked to the Borg hive mind and are all acting as one. That’s not how the world works. If they’re all deciding the same thing then once again... you should stop and think about what that says about your ideas.
BTW, people made these same kinds of arguments against civil rights. "Well it's private property, neighborhoods can have restricted covenant and restaurants can prohibit blacks, it's a free market."
Seriously? The essence of the civil rights movement is that businesses cannot tell someone they are not allowed in their space because of their ethnicity, gender, etc. That is not comparable to telling businesses they are not allowed to determine what kind of content is acceptable on their platforms, or what products they are allowed to pull off of their own shelves.
The point is that people DO want to hear what these people have to say, but corporations are doing their best to make that not happen.
Then book them on Fox News, OANN, or News Max. Sell the damn book on Etsy. Or create your own platforms. If there is a market for it then nothing is stopping it. And if you are really concerned about how powerful the rich have gotten in this country and wish for a more balanced society, then welcome to the left.
To speak of social media companies in particular, almost all interesting right wing content creators were banned from YouTube over the 2016-2020 period, twitter regularly purges right wing accounts, lots and lots of right-leaning subreddits have been banned, and now companies are beginning the process of banning
And yet again, you completely disregard any analysis of what type of content is being banned from these platforms. That’s the whole point and the only one that matters, not whether that content is left or right. Many of these “right wing” accounts you mentioned are unabashed white supremacists. Is that what you are equating to your conservatives views? Are you really arguing that you feel under attack because they got banned?
No, I'm talking about them getting people fired from their jobs for expressing (or increasingly just privately holding) views that were mainstream like three or four years ago. You yourself said I shouldn't be allowed to be a teacher
I never said you should not be allowed to be a teacher. I was pointing out how circumstances are not the same and how speech being unacceptable in one setting is not appropriate in another. Howard Stern’s show was fine for satellite radio, it would not have been fine from a school teacher.
But yes I agree with you on there absurdity of people losing their jobs. Just since your last reply to me Alexi Mccamond was fired for calling someone gay back in high school. There’s no words for the stupidity of this, and I would rhetorically attack the decision makers here all day. But what I won’t do is suggest that they somehow did not or should not have the right to do it. If our society really is this crazy then the problem is not the system, the problem is the people within it. No system can overcome that.
-->
@zedvictor4
What you mean is....You personally haven't or don't want to keep up with 21st century values and liberal ideas.
good.
-->
@Greyparrot
hopefully that changes- the system needs to be completely tear downed
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Washington DC has uncontested monopoly power.
The Best way to fix the country at this point is to vote for the most incompetent crony politician possible so that the fall of DC will be fast enough to recover from.
A slow death of DC will probably mean a foreign invasion or civil war.
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Agree.
Me neither
But I see change as inevitable and therefore I don't fret about it.....I'll be beyond caring soon enough.
-->
@Greyparrot
Washington DC has uncontested monopoly power.
I don’t think you understand what a monopoly is. The entire point is to ensure competition. Please explain who is supposed to compete with the US government.
The Best way to fix the country at this point is to vote for the most incompetent crony politician possible so that the fall of DC will be fast enough to recover from.
What an asinine statement. What does this “fall of DC” you are envisioning actually look like, and I’d love to know what you think will magically rise up in its place.
-->
@Double_R
Please explain who is supposed to compete with the US government.
Right now, the general public competes with lobbies. Guess who wins most of the time?
Guess who wins when alternatives to established government services are suggested? (even within the government)
I strongly recommend you take 5 minutes out of your free time to watch this.
-->
@Dr.Franklin
This is what really went down during the stimulus bill discussions.
-->
@Greyparrot
I strongly recommend you take 5 minutes out of your free time to watch this.
Question; is this the biggest or at least one of the biggest reasons why you vote republican?
I’m also curious to know your general thoughts on AOC.
-->
@Double_R
Question; is this the biggest or at least one of the biggest reasons why you vote republican?
I voted for Obama and didn't vote last Election.
I’m also curious to know your general thoughts on AOC.
I used to think she was a useful idiot, but I am hoping somehow she can get enough support to change the status quo. I was really disappointed when her war on Pelosi ended before it really even started, but that is Washington DC for you. It eats you alive.
-->
@Double_R
Question; is this the biggest or at least one of the biggest reasons why you vote republican?
Most of the Democrat party are heavily purchased by the rich, especially in high GDP states like New York and California where most of the ultra-rich live.
AOC s a rare exception to the rule.
But one exception isn't going to make a difference. We already saw the past 4 years that one man can't take on the entire establishment without consequences.
Even his own party in Congress turned on him for not playing ball with the elite lobbies.
-->
@Greyparrot
I voted for Obama and didn't vote last Election.
Interesting. Have you not been on this site praising Trump or am I making things up?
But one exception isn't going to make a difference. We already saw the past 4 years that one man can't take on the entire establishment without consequences.
I assume you are talking about Trump here, I don’t see who else you would be talking about. Trump wasn’t taking on the establishment, not in any sense of what that phrase typically means. Trump was about Trump, and this whole anti establishment image was about branding. All he did was pass a tax cut making the rich richer.
Most of the Democrat party are heavily purchased by the rich, especially in high GDP states like New York and California where most of the ultra-rich live.
Is there a reason you are singling out democrats? Are you really suggesting that republicans are not purchased by the rich?
-->
@Greyparrot
Not surprised, the israel lobby is one of the most influential of the bunch
-->
@zedvictor4
you dont get it
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Ditto.
-->
@zedvictor4
uselesss
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Useless waste of an S maybe, Doc.
Or were you doing a Kaa......Trust in me, as it were.
-->
@zedvictor4
alright