Do Ungrateful people deserve charity/welfare?

Author: Greyparrot

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#31
Theweakeredge
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@fauxlaw
Incorrect, I corrected you with the only measure of love we can demonstrate, you did not provide an alternate definition you simply asserted that I "do not understand the English lexicon", furthermore, I literally said in the same sentence, "for the sake of conversation I will pretend to be a Christian, okay?" The syllogism was an example of your argument, or at least what you were using - until you have corrected the framing of your rebuttal it is cherry picked
#32
fauxlaw
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@Theweakeredge
 this is not a debate, you are welcome to your position and I don't feel the need to rebut it.
#33
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@fauxlaw
I know you know what a BoP is, the "place" where you make a claim is irrelevant you will always have a burden to demonstrate disputable claims. In order for your words to have any persuasive power they must demonstrate any claims - and ignoring entire key points of my rebuttal is not sufficient to fulfill your BoP.

IF you wish to convince another person to your perspective through reason, THEN you must fulfill your BoP when you make any claims.
#34
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@Theweakeredge
Were we n the Debate section, I wold agree with you. In Debate, a BoP is essential. I see the Forum as merely a free exchange of ideas. Free I the sense that I may choose to provide a BoP, or to merely express an opinion. In Forum, I see it as our choice, entirely. You have the right to disagree, but cannot impose either approach. Leave it at that. If you choose to disagree with my opinion, that's on you. I feel no obligation to prove any point I express in Forum, but I have chosen to do exactly that on occasion. Isn't that a fair description of a free exchange of ideas? Credibility be damned.
#35
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@Theweakeredge
In fact, Mods have backed off requiring BoP even in Debate, which I believe is best served by providing sufficient scholastic sourcing to substantiate a debater's ideas. Since Mods have changed sourcing to be an optional matter for voting purposes, I'd say your decree that BoP is required in Forum, let alone Debate, has fallen.
#36
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@fauxlaw
sourcing is not the only way to provide substantiation for a claim
#37
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@Greyparrot
Do Ungrateful people deserve charity/welfare?
As the title says, just want to get an idea of your opinion and maybe some justification. 

Well, to my values 'yes, though I don't 'act on that unless you count the times in my life I've been voluntold to help, given a couple homeless men $20.00 when they asked me if I had any change, and I don't carry change but feel a sudden empathy and shame about my 'lack of volunteer work, and just want to escape the situation. Then there's those donation asking card swipes at the store now and then, but anyway, I don't think I act in a meaningful way of my idea of the rightness of charity.
. . .
Hm, 'why do I think this?
Eh, I'm suspecting my justification hasn't much logic to it really.
My Christian parents installed the idea of empathy/sympathy/compassion,
I'm sure atheist parents, Buddhist, apathetic, and so on parents are equally capable of installing such values in their kids.
But anyway I was taught that other people are/should be valued, lifted up when brought low.
When I was a child, my mother leading me in prayers, I recall once she asked me who I prayed for, and I 'recall myself saying everyone in the world, even a man I thought of as a very bad evil man, a worldwide criminal. Said I prayed that he could find his way to God again, the right path in life, turn from the evil that he had done.
. . .
Course I'm an atheist now, but that my mother praised me for that, for empathy to even that (From our perspective) lost fellow, resonated with me.
Hm, rambling.

Anyway, my justification is it's just a value I was taught when young along with other values over a long period of time, habits and values often strengthen with time, clumping together with similar values.

For a laugh,
Google, Existential Comics, An Ethical Dilemma Finally Resolved.
#38
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@Greyparrot
Ungrateful people should be flung into an active volcano.

Justification: cuz I said so

16 days later

#39
Danielle
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@ILikePie5
If a person receiving welfare felt ungrateful then he’s just retarded and should die 🤷‍♂️🤡

Hey that's not nice to say about your comrades in the Deep South. 
#40
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@Danielle
Hey that's not nice to say about your comrades in the Deep South. 
I’m a supporter of the Texas Independence movement🤷‍♂️
#41
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@Greyparrot
Do Ungrateful people deserve charity/welfare?

Tricky one that.

I think these ILLEGAL so called "asylum seekers"  are ungrateful fkrs after being rescued from drowning in the English channel and then setting fire to the army barracks that they were accommodated  in, clothed in the top  designer gear,  fed three square a day , given £40.00 a week to spend and given tv and video games and sports facilities. 

They then went on a march through the local town demanding to be put up in hotels.

So no, they don't deserve a penny more in welfare or charity.  They should be deported immediately, forthwith.  Lets not forget that they are Illegals. 

#42
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@ILikePie5
That's nice though the deep south generally refers to places like Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama. 
#43
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@Danielle
That's nice though the deep south generally refers to places like Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama. 
Yaaaaaa Idrc bout them. Texas is far superior
#44
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@ILikePie5
Lol okay but the question is do ungrateful people deserve welfare. Considering the deep south routinely votes against social programs, it's interesting that those states are the biggest welfare whores of all (using that term to make a point). Maybe they should forfeit all their food stamps, government healthcare and unemployment benefits since those are Big Government socialist policies . 


#45
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Hmm, I suppose it's possible to be grateful for something you don't like. That's kinda how I feel about sperm. I can't think of many other examples off the dome.  
#46
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Oh, I would be grateful if they cancelled my student loans (though I do not support that policy). 

It would be interesting how things changed or didn't change if you were only eligible for benefits you voted for. 

#47
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@Danielle
Lol okay but the question is do ungrateful people deserve welfare. Considering the deep south routinely votes against social programs, it's interesting that those states are the biggest welfare whores of all (using that term to make a point). Maybe they should forfeit all their food stamps, government healthcare and unemployment benefits since those are Big Government socialist policies.
If I can get welfare, why wouldn’t I? GP is on welfare and he sure as hell doesn’t need it. If the safety net didn’t exist people would be more conscious about spending their money on proper items rather than drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol lol. 

If I can not work and chill, why would I ever work. That’s exactly what’s going on rn. Unemployment Benefits are so high that no one wants to work.

Without a safety net people that can work are incentivized to work and not waste money

#48
Danielle
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@ILikePie5
If I can get welfare, why wouldn’t I? GP is on welfare and he sure as hell doesn’t need it.
Is he grateful that he meets welfare eligibility despite not needing it? If he isn't grateful, should it be taken away? 


If the safety net didn’t exist people would be more conscious about spending their money on proper items rather than drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol lol. 
That's not how addiction works but anyways 


If I can not work and chill, why would I ever work.
Well there are many people who don't have to work but choose to do so. Technically I am one of them. But this doesn't really answer the question about whether or not gratitude should be a prerequisite to receiving charity or welfare.  



#49
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@Danielle
It's difficult to not see some of one's personal donations to charity see its way to people who I feel are ungrateful for the donation. I, like you, do not need to work anymore, but I do, entirely for myself by myself. I have no staff to pay [I once did], and I donate about 20% of my current income, but rather than just give to charities, which put me in that realm of donating to ingrates, I choose personal involvement with those to whom I give. Someone nearby, with whom I can visit, and even do physical labor for, if needed, around the house. That way, it's a person-to-person relationship, not anonymous, and they are grateful, making me glad as well. It truly works and everyone is happy. I recommend the method as a satisfactory way to be charitable. To me, it's not charity in tyhe traditional sense, but, as I've noted elsewhere, an attempt to express the pure love of Christ.
#50
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@fauxlaw
That is very admirable of you and definitely a Christ-like approach to helping needy people. I suspect most would have a hard time doing manual labor or volunteer work for someone who was not grateful, and I wonder if donating money alone makes it easier to ignore the ingratitude (it doesn't for me). 

Historically I have had a hard time feeling generous toward people I don't like, or those who express hatred or negativity toward people and things I care about. For instance it grinds my gears that I have to pay a ton of taxes to help subsidize all the Jim Bobs and Peggy Sues who routinely voted against things like gay marriage. But lately what I feel most for these people is pity. I've noticed that in the last few months I'm just feeling sorry for people that I would usually have contempt for.