School systems should include LBTQ+ topics in their history and sex education

Author: Theweakeredge

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ADreamOfLiberty
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@Theweakeredge
And here ya are bein' a hypocrite, you oughta know that just because something isn't necessarily hereditary that doesn't mean there isn't genetic factors.
Since I never said there were no genetic factors, I am not a hypocrite (or rather contradicting myself as hypocrisy requires a principle and not mere contradiction).

A factor a very broad term. Rain is a factor in getting wet, and so is wearing a raincoat. Yet failing to wear a raincoat does not necessarily mean you will get wet.

Causation is best described by a series of necessary conditions OR a single sufficient condition, OR a set of preexisting necessary conditions with a potential final necessary condition.

The last necessary condition becomes the sufficient condition within context.

There are not percentages in causality, there are percentages in quantities. If 50% of people who get wet could avoid being wet by wearing a raincoat that does not mean raincoats are 50% the cause of dryness nor that the absence of raincoats are 50% the cause of wetness.

People who wear raincoats don't get wet. People who don't wear raincoats do get wet (if it rains).

50% may come from a statistic but it has nothing to do with the mechanics of the phenomenon. This is why they say statistics lie, because people who use statistics without understanding deductive logic shoot themselves in the foot and produce pseudoscience.

We seem to actually share a fairly similar opinion about how sexualities form.

A combination of genetic predispositions and experience. Although you like to be obtuse about it all.
No, this was obtuse, well more like misleading and imprecise:

genes account for between 8% and 25% of same-sex behavior.
As I explained, that doesn't mean anything. All possible reasonable interpretations are easily disproved. Therefore it's pseudoscience, and it doesn't really matter whether it's a game of telephone or it was misleading and imprecise in the original paper.
zedvictor4
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@Rieka
Still, how high my IQ is has nothing to do with this debate.

#254.

You made it so.
Theweakeredge
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You argue like you constantly need to be perfect in the way you phrase things. Like everyone needs to be as precise as necessary. I'll be honest, I didn't follow precisely what you were saying at first- this entire time your position has been largely neutral-at least from what you've explicitly said.

However, it doesn't take a genius to see that what you imply is far from neutral. You're the type to use the lack of certainty necessary in science to be an asshat.

Its pretty apparent that you never actually investigated FLRW's source did you? Don't worry, i did your homework for ya-
"In the discovery samples (UK Biobank and 23andMe), five autosomal loci were significantly associated with same-sex sexual behavior. Follow-up of these loci suggested links to biological pathways that involve sex hormone regulation and olfaction. Three of the loci were significant in a meta-analysis of smaller, independent replication samples. Although only a few loci passed the stringent statistical corrections for genome-wide multiple testing and were replicated in other samples, our analyses show that many loci underlie same-sex sexual behavior in both sexes. In aggregate, all tested genetic variants accounted for 8 to 25% of variation in male and female same-sex sexual behavior, and the genetic influences were positively but imperfectly correlated between the sexes [genetic correlation coefficient (rg) = 0.63; 95% confidence intervals, 0.48 to 0.78]. These aggregate genetic influences partly overlapped with those on a variety of other traits, including externalizing behaviors such as smoking, cannabis use, risk-taking, and the personality trait “openness to experience.” Additional analyses suggested that sexual behavior, attraction, identity, and fantasies are influenced by a similar set of genetic variants (rg > 0.83); however, the genetic effects that differentiate heterosexual from same-sex sexual behavior are not the same as those that differ among nonheterosexuals with lower versus higher proportions of same-sex partners, which suggests that there is no single continuum from opposite-sex to same-sex preference."

Pretty interestin' i'd say, to dumb it down for ya' they found some loci (specific points on a chromosome) that were associated with same sex behavior- hormone production and the like- they investigated these and found that 8 to 25% of VARIATION in male and female same-sex behavior.

Whats the point of all this? That you like to hide behind, "we can't confirm that" or "we have no way to know that"- no we can't be 100% certain but it can certainly be argued to be likely. If you truly believe people mean, "I think it 100% a fact that x is true" when they same "x is true", then your a bit more naïve then i thought. What i have realized is that your logic isn't very sound most of the time- lemme give you an example though- you like those.

There are not percentages in causality, there are percentages in quantities. If 50% of people who get wet could avoid being wet by wearing a raincoat that does not mean raincoats are 50% the cause of dryness nor that the absence of raincoats are 50% the cause of wetness.

People who wear raincoats don't get wet. People who don't wear raincoats do get wet (if it rains).

50% may come from a statistic but it has nothing to do with the mechanics of the phenomenon. This is why they say statistics lie, because people who use statistics without understanding deductive logic shoot themselves in the foot and produce pseudoscience.

"people who wear raincoats don't get wet" (the implication being that its raining)- but thats...false? Like completely, your neck gets wet, your forehead, your nose, your face in general. Your hands, your legs, etc, etc, etc. Yes you do. The raincoat does however protect a certain region of your body-almost a PERCENTAGE. Yes yes, obviously i understand causation and correlation- cool not the point here. 

There absolutely is percentages in "causality" or- "the relationship between cause and effect." i.e, something happens which causes something else to happen. The cause of an effect. If i were to say, "there is a chance eating spoiled food will make me sick", i am saying that there is a certain percent chance that the cause- eating spoiled food- will result in an effect - getting sick. Quantities certainly help to specify those numbers, absolutely, without the statistics providing a sample to test how likely someone is to get sick from eating certain things, I couldn't give you a specific percent chance that I'd get sick from eating that spoiled food.

What am I saying then? Im saying that you make 0 sense and frankly i don't wanna talk to you anymore. You come off as insincere and manipulative. You can call me manipulative if you like in response- don't care- but the longer we've talked the less i believe im gonna get anything outta conversing with you.


Best.Korea
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@Theweakeredge
If the suicide rate for a town with 1,300 people and a town with 13,000 people is 5%, how many more people in the latter town commit suicide?
Thats the same suicide rate.

Suicide rate is per 100,000 population. Its not per total population. Therefore, population can grow and suicide rate can remain the same.

If we have

population of 100,000 with 1 suicide

Or 

Population of 200,000 with 2 suicides

Or

population of 300,000 with 3 suicides


rate of suicide for each is 1 per 100,000

Okay, maybe I should use some simple words. Suicide rate is like percentage. Therefore, percentage of people who commit suicide is higher today. Get it now??????
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Theweakeredge
You argue like you constantly need to be perfect in the way you phrase things.
Thank you ;)


Like everyone needs to be as precise as necessary.
Well it is necessary...


I'll be honest, I didn't follow precisely what you were saying at first- this entire time your position has been largely neutral-at least from what you've explicitly said.
Neutral? You need to have a specific contention to be neutral on. The world is complicated and if something is as simple as "for" or "against" someone else has done a lot of conceptual work to get it to that point.

I'm not "neutral" on anything I've said in this thread, you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole... or more like a clockwork peg into a round hole.


Its pretty apparent that you never actually investigated FLRW's source did you? Don't worry, i did your homework for ya-
Nope didn't need to, not my homework. Links are for data.

Again, it doesn't matter if the error was in the paper or in FLRW's presentation.


they investigated these and found that 8 to 25% of VARIATION in male and female same-sex behavior.
and what does that mean to you? Dumb it down for me will you?


Whats the point of all this? That you like to hide behind, "we can't confirm that" or "we have no way to know that"
What are you talking about? I haven't said that here; but if they were true it's hardly a spurious point to make.


The raincoat does however protect a certain region of your body-almost a PERCENTAGE.
Surface area is a quantity, thus there can be a percentage. Hormone concentration is a quantity, thus there can be a percentage. The fact that you needed to introduce a quantity to have a coherent percentage related to causality confirms my point.


i am saying that there is a certain percent chance that the cause- eating spoiled food- will result in an effect - getting sick.
No, what you're really saying that in the past a certain percentage of the times people ate spoiled food were followed by getting sick. "Getting sick" and "spoiled food" are simplifications.

The cause was bacteria or toxins and there very well could be critical quantities of either, but the percentage of those quantities is not the percentage probability. If you could measure those quantities and understood the full dynamics it would be either 100% you will get sick or 0% you won't.

To say "the toxins account for 25% of sickness" is wrong in that it means nothing. The toxins account for 100% of the sickness, but not all spoiled food has the required level of toxins and not all food is spoiled.


sadolite
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What would a school teach about LGBTQ that isn't shoved down our throats  by govt, news media and corporations 24/7/365?
bigdiknazi
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I objectively think that gay people should be killed
PREZ-HILTON
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@bigdiknazi
I objectively think that gay people should be killed
That's what the Quran says so kind of bigoted if anyone gets offended at your position 

335 days later

zedvictor4
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@commonplace
Dissociative identity disorder.

AKA overthink.

Or.

Maybe it's something in the water.