It seems that most skeptics are unwilling to see the proof (evidence) of Gods existence and mainly ask questions that are not relevant to the subject, because, i think, they really don't want an answer.
Man's own unwillingness to see the proof of Gods existence
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@ronjs
Let's see what the smartest Jew to ever live has to say. “The word 'God' is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change this.”- Albert Einstein 1954
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@ronjs
It seems that most skeptics are unwilling to see the proof (evidence) of Gods existence and mainly ask questions that are not relevant to the subject, because, i think, they really don't want an answer.
I will not claim that there is no evidence but there is certainly no sufficient evidence which which I have ever been presented. That is really all it would take is sufficient independently verifiable evidence. I think perhaps part of your frustration here is in the word sufficient.
I've been asked before what sort of evidence it would take to convince me and that question is actually a nonstarter. Newton had no idea that an apple was going to prove gravity to him (in a much as the story of Newton's apple isnot apocryphal) until it literally hit him in the head. In the same manner I'm not going to know what evidence of a deity would look like until I see it.
I can think of a few things that definitely won't convince me. Looking at trees for example. Trees are not evidence of any deity only of trees. Reading the bible or any other holy book is also insufficient. Books of scripture are not evidence of any deity only of books.
Another thing that will not convince me is any argument from ignorance or appeals to popularity. If I don't have a better answer (to questions like why are we here and where did the univercome from for example) I am still not obligated to adopt the insufficient answer put forth by someone else and the number of someones saying it is absolutely immaterial.
That in mind did you have anything to submit or were you just saying how annoying it is when people dismiss your unfalsifiable claims?
One of the most tragic things that can happen in a person's life is an unwillingness to pursue and seek out their Creator.
Skeptics can't see God not because there's no evidence, but because there's so much evidence they have shut their eyes.
Just my two cents
Atoms are proof of no God. Atoms cannot be influenced by anything non-physical.
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@Soluminsanis
Skeptics can't see God not because there's no evidence, but because there's so much evidence they have shut their eyes.
Please detail what you consider your very best evidence for your preferred god(s). It would not hurt to start by explaining exactly which god it is if you can.
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@FLRW
atoms aren't physical. Nothing is.
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@secularmerlin
I am starting from the other end. I believe there is a God, but I don't know "which" God it is. As I explore the creation, I get to know about God, in bits and pieces. For one, God is a mathematician. There's a start.
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@janesix
I support your efforts. If you are serious about finding the one true god then your job is to do everything possible to disprove each god. So first you must imagine what the world would be like if the god you are examining didn't exist. As a short cut I recommend imagining that no god(s) exist.
Can you describe a world with no god(s)?
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@secularmerlin
I'm not sure.
I can't even describe THIS world.
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@janesix
Then you may come up against your epistemological limitations long before you know whether or not any god(s) are reasonable to believe in let alone which god it might be. Still I wish you luck.
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@ronjs
The proof and evidence of which or what GODS existence?
Do you simply mean one of the Middle Eastern folklore derivatives?
As a sceptic..... I will run with the idea of an unknown universal GOD principle.
But I won't give any credence to the idea of a floaty about bloke, who f**cks married virgins and then buggers off.
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@ronjs
It seems that most skeptics are unwilling to see the proof (evidence) of Gods existence
[A] I have never seen a single piece of evidence for the existence of the god that Christians believe exists. Are you claiming such a god exists?
and mainly ask questions that are not relevant to the subject,
In your opinion, is questioning the reliability of the bible relevant to the subject?
because, i think, they really don't want an answer
Well that is where your totally wrong in my case. I would like all of the questions that I have concerning the bible, answered. Would you like a short list or a long one?
Also there is the problem of [A] above.
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@janesix
Go stand in front of a tornado and see if it is non-physical.
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@janesix
@FLRW
atoms aren't physical. Nothing is.
Go stand in front of a tornado and see if it is non-physical.
Even if matter does not "exist" in a really real for reallzies way that precludes the problems of soft solipsism and the clans of certain spiritualists it still observable interacts with other (not) "existing" matter so your proposed experiment has zero effect on the unfalsifiable nature of Jane's claim. That the possibly (not) "existing" tornado interacts with the possibly (not) "existing" Jane as we have observed possibly (not) "existing" matter interact before doesn't necessitate that it is for reallzies real.
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@secularmerlin
I can't figure out if you are a Substantivalist or a Relationalist.
Substantivalists believe that spacetime and its parts are fundamental constituents of reality. Relationalists deny this.
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@ronjs
Instead of pretending you can read minds, how about you just ask, hm? This is why I don't like FLRW's whole "theists are mentally damaged" because no they aren't they're people with different assumptions and justifications than you and I, nothing more and nothing less. If you want to pretend to have the moral high ground fine, but don't assume and generalize an entire group that's only similarity is an agreement that there are no gods, nothing else.
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@ronjs
Man's own unwillingness to see the proof of Gods existence
SOLUMINSANIS,
YOUR EVER SO WANTING QUOTE #4: "One of the most tragic things that can happen in a person's life is an unwillingness to pursue and seek out their Creator.
Skeptics can't see God not because there's no evidence, but because there's so much evidence they have shut their eyes. Just my two cents"
First off, your quote is not worth even two cents because you disparage Jesus by not giving examples of our serial killer Jesus' evidence of His existence! Why were you silent upon this fact, are you too embarrassed to give examples?
Here, let me easily school you once again, like I have done many times before at your uncomfortable expense, by positing the following passage, to wit: "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 )
We know of the niceties that Jesus has created upon earth, but under the passage shown above, Jesus also created hurricanes that kill His JEWISH followers, and unfortunately, NON JEWISH people as well. In Jesus creating ALL, and I repeat, ALL things, then to name just a few, Jesus created cancer that has killed many, He has created severe birth defects, Ebola, Malaria, Pneumonia, and most importantly, the Covid-19 virus that has killed millions upon this earth at this time! As a TRUE Christian, I have to accept these facts shown herewith, whereas you as a mere pseudo-christian, can only "try" and apologetically spin doctor the facts above away.
Soluminsanis, remember you inept Biblical fool, Jesus will always decide in what happens in human affairs, therefore throwing out any alleged "Free Will" scenario: "The lot is cast into the lap, but it's every decision is from the Lord." (Proverbs 16:33)
NEXT BIBLICALLY INEPT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN THAT IS AS DUMBFOUNDED OF THE BIBLE AS SOLUMINSANIS WILL BE ....?
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@ronjs
It seems that most skeptics are unwilling to see the proof (evidence) of Gods existence
I am perfectly willing to accept Ethica, Ordine Geometrico Demonstrata as perfectly logical and indisputable evidence of some logically necessary GOD.
and mainly ask questions that are not relevant to the subject,
What do you believe are the "relevant" questions?
because, i think, they really don't want an answer.
Speculation about motive is considered an ad hominem attack.
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@Theweakeredge
Instead of pretending you can read minds, how about you just ask, hm? This is why I don't like FLRW's whole "theists are mentally damaged" because no they aren't they're people with different assumptions and justifications than you and I, nothing more and nothing less. If you want to pretend to have the moral high ground fine, but don't assume and generalize an entire group that's only similarity is an agreement that there are no gods, nothing else.
Well stated.
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@secularmerlin
Even if matter does not "exist" in a really real for reallzies way that precludes the problems of soft solipsism and the clans of certain spiritualists it still observable interacts with other (not) "existing" matter so your proposed experiment has zero effect on the unfalsifiable nature of Jane's claim. That the possibly (not) "existing" tornado interacts with the possibly (not) "existing" Jane as we have observed possibly (not) "existing" matter interact before doesn't necessitate that it is for reallzies real.
Well stated.
In other words, [**]
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@Soluminsanis
One of the most tragic things that can happen in a person's life is an unwillingness to pursue and seek out their Creator.
Have you perused sought out your creator? Where did you look? Can you show the skeptic what you discovered from your pursuits of the creator?
Skeptics can't see God not because there's no evidence, but because there's so much evidence they have shut their eyes.
And you know this how?
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@janesix
I am starting from the other end. I believe there is a God, but I don't know "which" God it is. As I explore the creation, I get to know about God, in bits and pieces. For one, God is a mathematician. There's a start.
Are you familiar with Ethica, Ordine Geometrico Demonstrata?
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@BrotherDThomas
We know of the niceties that Jesus has created upon earth, but under the passage shown above, Jesus also created hurricanes that kill His JEWISH followers, and unfortunately, NON JEWISH people as well. In Jesus creating ALL, and I repeat, ALL things, then to name just a few, Jesus created cancer that has killed many, He has created severe birth defects, Ebola, Malaria, Pneumonia, and most importantly, the Covid-19 virus that has killed millions upon this earth at this time! As a TRUE Christian, I have to accept these facts shown herewith, whereas you as a mere pseudo-christian, can only "try" and apologetically spin doctor the facts above away.
Brother.
I find it a relief that there is at least in you one christian that is willing to face the obvious biblical facts about your jealous, child killing, warmongering god.
How many people does the bible say the devil killed , Brother?
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@ronjs
It seems that most skeptics are unwilling to see the proof (evidence) of Gods existence and mainly ask questions that are not relevant to the subject, because, i think, they really don't want an answer.
It isn't that they're unwilling to see the proof of God's existence; they're just willing to accept anything that is inconsistent with the metric which provides them personal value. I suppose, we're all like that. Their questions are an attempt, at the very least, to define the benchmark by their metrics.
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@Soluminsanis
One of the most tragic things that can happen in a person's life is an unwillingness to pursue and seek out their Creator.
What if they found a "god" that doesn't happen to match your personally preferred description?
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@3RU7AL
One of the most tragic things that can happen in a person's life is an unwillingness to pursue and seek out their Creator.What if they found a "god" that doesn't happen to match your personally preferred description?
10/10.. I think you know the answer to that, though.
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@Stephen
Let's face it: the Old Testament God was a deity who really needed to rip the amphetamine drip out of his celestial arm. Although the New Testament gave us a kinder, gentler God with a bellyful of butterflies who only wants humanity to surround him in one big group hug, the Old Testament God comes across as a guy who'd sooner kill you than look at you. In his capacity for inflicting cataclysmic acts of murderous violence upon the soft, helpless animals in his charge, the Old Testament God is best compared to a pre-pubescent psychopath with an ant farm.
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@FLRW
I am a skeptic and I don't pretend to have answers I am not privy too.