Of course morality is subjective.

Author: Theweakeredge

Posts

Total: 219
#91
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@secularmerlin
@Double_R
Well.. to be fair, havng had conversation with this fellow before, they have an aversion to presenting evidence or accepting it, so that doesn't surprise me

I was subjected to this weather. That sentence has nothing to do with dependent on the mind for existence (so much for “I wouldn't bother”).
How’s that for evidence? Your not going to prove it so I guess I will.

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.

#92
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Theweakeredge

IF you are unwilling or unable to present some argument AND you are unwilling or unable to accept some argument THEN your conversations will by necessity go nowhere.
#93
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Tarik
Well.. to be fair, havng had conversation with this fellow before, they have an aversion to presenting evidence or accepting it, so that doesn't surprise me

I was subjected to this weather. That sentence has nothing to do with dependent on the mind for existence (so much for “I wouldn't bother”).
How’s that for evidence? Your not going to prove it so I guess I will.

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.
I feel like I'm missing some context here.
#94
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@secularmerlin
Why? The parenthesis wasn’t for you it was from awhile ago for Theweakeredge.
#95
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Tarik
The context is what evidence you mean and what it presumably is evidence of.
#96
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,611
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Dr.Franklin
God is the context of morality, he provides it
Within a few weeks the Israelites were starving, so Moses appealed to God, who promised: "I will rain down bread from Heaven for you", [Exodus 16] and delivered the mysterious, but nutritious, manna which was "white like coriander seed and tasted like a wafer made with honey"

So now approximately 3.1 million children die from undernutrition each year (UNICEF, 2018a). Hunger and undernutrition contribute to more than half of global child deaths, as undernutrition can make children more vulnerable to illness and exacerbate disease. What does God do? Nothing, so God is amoral or as Nietzsche said, God is dead.
#97
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@secularmerlin
The sentence is evidence that “subject to” doesn’t mean subjective because it had nothing to do with dependent on the mind for existence.
#98
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@FLRW
Moses was a Prohpet, he spoke through God while nobody today is a Prophet
#99
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@secularmerlin
Morality is objective
Topic's author
#100
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Dr.Franklin
^^ citation needed
#101
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Tarik
The sentence is evidence that “subject to” doesn’t mean subjective because it had nothing to do with dependent on the mind for existence.
I'm not up to date on your argument or that of your interlocutor but perhaps the problem is a simple category error possibly based on imprecise definitions. Contrary to your claims that definitions are only useful if there is some "official" consensus your definitions are not really particularly universal. 
#102
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Morality is objective
Bald assertion. 
#103
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@secularmerlin
your definitions are not really particularly universal.
Well I didn’t think of that definition all on my own, in fact I got it from another user of this site, Theweakeredge provided that definition and he’s just salty I used the definition against him, but jokes on him 😆.
Topic's author
#104
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
No, in fact, "subject to" is nothing I've ever used in a definition, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make things up Tarik.
#105
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
No, in fact, "subject to" is nothing I've ever used in a definition, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make things up Tarik.
No, but you defined the word subjective and according to you and the others that’s synonymous to “subject to” and I have direct quotes proving this so I’d appreciate it if you took the time to understand instead of misconstruing the narrative snowflake.
Topic's author
#106
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
Please show me the quote where I used "Subject to" in the definition of subjective, I'm waiting.
#107
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Tarik
@Theweakeredge
The lexicality of 'subject' vs 'object' is to do with what is being done and that nature of the recipient of the act. 

The easier thing to grasp is that the subjective viewpoint is that of the one 'perceiving the act' and  you can even take this as a sexual innuendo if you want because this is important as it is literally the origin of what 'objectification of women' even means. The 'object' is something that is only ever done things to and which itself has no perception worthy of considering as a first-person concern. The 'subject' is something that both has things done to it and actively can do things but more importantly while participating in acts it has a viewpoint and perception that is emotionally concerning and valuable.

The opposite to objectifying women is not 'empowering' them, this is a politically charged concept that comes from what actually had to happen in order to... subjectify women. The subjectification of something is similar to what PETA does more readily to animals than your typical slaughterhouse worker or burger fan. It also is what we may do some day to sentient AI. The initial status of anything participating in acts, especially as a recipient, is that it's only worthy of objective outlook and status. What comes with respecting its sentience and ability to perceive reality in a genuine, active manner is subjectification, a term we do not use but which is the actual inverse of objectification.
#108
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
Please show me the quote where I used "Subject to" in the definition of subjective, I'm waiting.
I didn’t say that, I said YOU said that “subject to” means subjective which you did, you seriously lack comprehension skills.
Topic's author
#109
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
"Subject to" means Subjective, the only time I described what subjective meant was in definitions, ergo, there you go - please go find a quote then
#110
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
The lexicality of 'subject' vs 'object' is to do with what is being done and that nature of the recipient of the act. 
Were you even paying attention to what was being discussed?
#111
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
the only time I described what subjective meant was in definitions
Which was exactly what I was talking about, took you long enough.
Topic's author
#112
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
I... already said that, a couple of posts up, so, I'm waiting for that quote of me now, where is it, this is only the third time I've asked, you said, "And I have the quotes to prove it", go ahead then. I literally started with. "Give me a quote with me saying "subject to" in the definition of subjective" I reworded it there, but its the exact same thing I've been asking for.
#113
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
I... already said that, a couple of posts up
Exactly my point.

I'm waiting for that quote of me now, where is it
You’ve already conceded to the quotes I was referring to.

"Give me a quote with me saying "subject to" in the definition of subjective"
Now you’re just starting a circle because I’ve already responded to this, maybe you should get a quote from me saying what YOU think I’m saying. 
Topic's author
#114
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
what? where is the quote of me saying it, you've quite literally just went, "Ahh, my point exactly" my point is that you have not provided a single thing, I've continuously asked for it to demonstrate your claim. This sort of dishonest framing is exactly why I blocked you, but you know, having you being dishonest about me is a no-no
#115
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
Subjective - “Dependent on the mind or on an individual's perception for its existence”
Are you seriously going to argue you haven’t used this definition in your arguments?

P.S. let’s not forget the second time you blocked me AFTER I blocked you first but what good does that do if you’re still gonna engage in dialogue with me?
Topic's author
#116
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
I'm saying that I never equated that to "subject to" which was the dishonesty.
#117
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
I'm saying that I never equated that to "subject to" which was the dishonesty.
For the umpteenth time, I never said you did, you’re the one being dishonest here how about you get a quote from me.
#118
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
The term 'subject' in 'subjective' is not at all lexically the 'subject' that is used in 'subject to' instead it is the 'subject' in 'test subject'.

Totally unnecessary to block me, Tarik, however I do not care.

#119
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
The term 'subject' in 'subjective' is not at all lexically the 'subject' that is used in 'subject to' instead it is the 'subject' in 'test subject'.
That difference was my point all along.

Totally unnecessary to block me, Tarik, however I do not care.
Well you blocked me first I just returned the favor, and if you don’t care then why mention it?

7 days later

#120
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@secularmerlin
no, morality is objective