Impeachment Trial Thread

Author: Double_R

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Greyparrot
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@HistoryBuff
the founding fathers wanted presidents to be immune from punishment during their last month in office.

Nobody is stopping Chuck Schumer from taking a walk over to the FBI building. 
ILikePie5
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@HistoryBuff
the senate voted and confirmed they did have that power. 
Because it only required a majority vote. Conviction did not happen because Senators believed the trial was unconstitutional.

your position is illogical. You think it is unconstitutional for an impeachment to happen without roberts. I disagree, but for the sake of argument lets say your right. Then the senate and congress aren't doing anything wrong. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Roberts is the one violating the constitution.
It isn’t illogical. The Senate is holding an unconstitutional trial. They must subpoena the Chief Justice to preside for them to continue. Just like a law isn’t a law with just the President’s signature, the trial isn’t constitutional without Roberts present.

here is a link. Congress may impeach any federal official, including a senator
No where in your link does it mention a member of the House of Senate can be impeached. I specifically cited Constitutional text that says “Officers.” I also cited the relevant clause where the Constitution defines these “Officers.” You’re wrong.

true. And the senate did vote to remove blount. So what exactly is your issue?
The House can’t impeach a Senator lol. Senators kicked him out not because of the Articles of Impeachment but under their powers in Article 1 Section 3 to expulse members of their own body with 2/3 vote.

so your argument is that the supreme court can block an impeachment and the only way to move forward with one impeachment is to have a different impeachment? That still gives the supreme court a veto on impeaching the president which is definitely not what the power of impeachment intended.
Correct. If CJ Roberts refuses to abide by his constitutional duty then he should be impeached and convicted and when a new Chief Justice swears his oath, only then can the proceeding start. There is no Judicial Veto because refusal is grounds for impeachment.

again, you make no sense. The trial is fine. If anyone has violated the constitution it is Roberts, not congress.
False, Congress is violating the Constitution by holding a trial for the President of the United States without the Chief Justice presiding. I’ve already explained the relevant analogy.

if they can prevent a veto by refusing to preside over it, then they have vetoed it. They do not have that power. If roberts refuses to preside, then someone else will need to do it. It is pretty straight forward.
There is no Judicial Veto because the system of Checks and Balances ensures that the Chief Justice should be impeached and convicted for refusing to preside over the trial. It’s called once again Checks and Balances.
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@Greyparrot
This is so funny the Constitutional gymnastics involved removing a government official who is also not a government official.

Scotus most definitely will put Congress in its place if they decide to break character while playing out the political theatre for retards.
What’s funny is that Roberts would be forced to refuse himself because he refused to sit in on the trial. 4-4 court deciding it 😬
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@Greyparrot
Nobody is stopping Chuck Schumer from taking a walk over to the FBI building. 
Nobody is stopping Pelosi from passing Articles of Impeachment against John Roberts for refusing to preside over the trial of the President of the United States
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@HistoryBuff
How about we settle this with a debate. 1st debate for both of us on this site.
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@ILikePie5
This is going to be interesting if the SCOTUS fumbles the ball should Congress vote to strip citizen Trump of the opportunity to participate in elections.

It would mean that Congress could simply wait until they know who would be in the primaries, and preemptively bar them from government service using bogus charges like "hate speech" that would never hold up to the standards of an actual impartial court proceeding. It would mean my fortunes in crypto will go thru the roof as I plan a hasty exit.
ILikePie5
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@Greyparrot
It would mean that Congress could simply wait until they know who would be in the primaries, and preemptively bar them from government service using bogus charges that would never hold up to the standards of an actual impartial court proceeding. It would mean my fortunes in crypto will go thru the roof as I plan a hasty exit.
Never thought of it this way. It would absolutely be true though. Preemptively banning a one term President from non-subsequent reelection
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@ILikePie5
Never thought of it this way. It would absolutely be true though. Preemptively banning a one term President from non-subsequent reelection

banning a president that has committed impeachable offenses is precisely why impeachment exists. Of course it is true that it could do exactly what it is designed to do. Why would that surprise anyone?
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@HistoryBuff
banning a president that has committed impeachable offenses is precisely why impeachment exists. Of course it is true that it could do exactly what it is designed to do. Why would that surprise anyone?

The surprise would be the SCOTUS allowing Congress to do it to a US Citizen who was not currently a government official.

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@Greyparrot
The surprise would be the SCOTUS allowing Congress to do it to a US Citizen who was not currently a government official.
why would it be a surprise? Trump was impeached when he was a government official. Government officials have had their trials take place after they left office in the past. There is nothing unprecedented in having the trial take place after the impeached individual leaves office. 

If SCOTUS ruled against it they would be doing exactly what republicans claim they hate. They would be reinterpreting the constitution to suit their own political needs.

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@HistoryBuff

It doesn't really matter. 45 Senators have already gone on record indicating this is all political theatre for retards. SCOTUS probably won't ever have to weigh in.
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@HistoryBuff
banning a president that has committed impeachable offenses is precisely why impeachment exists. Of course it is true that it could do exactly what it is designed to do. Why would that surprise anyone?
You forgot the non-subsequent part.
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@ILikePie5
Predictit.org has Trump at a 6% chance of being convicted in the Senate. Might be a little high.
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@ILikePie5
I think I'll buy if somehow it gets to 10% think Trump will be convicted in the Senate so I can make a decent profit.... I'll only get about a dime back for every dollar spent.
Greyparrot
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@ILikePie5
H'mmm.... 10% of the people with money to bet think there will be a hearing of witnesses. Let's see if that can reach 20% and ill cash in on that one. 
Greyparrot
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@ILikePie5
60% of the people are betting GOP takes the House in 2022...damn I can't find anything out of value :(

Where is the fake media when you need it? Damn you CNN for losing viewership!
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Where is the fake media when you need it? Damn you CNN for losing viewership!

MSM is ded
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
It doesn't really matter. 45 Senators have already gone on record indicating this is all political theatre for retards. SCOTUS probably won't ever have to weigh in.
so 45 republicans that are terrified of trumps base just want this to go away so they don't have to cast a vote either way. That does not indicate it is theatre. That indicates they are cowards. Trump's attack on congress literally endangered their lives. They could have been killed. And they are still too spineless to stand up to a man who attacked democracy and endangered their lives. 
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@ILikePie5
It says impeachment and conviction only apply to the President, Vice President, or other Officers.
And it was the president they impeached. The trial is entirely in regards to his actions *as president*.

Do you believe original intent should play any role in this, or do you really see this as a semantic game of gotcha?
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@fauxlaw
Let us recall that impeachment has but two potential results: removal from office, and disqualification.

Yes. Trump was impeached while in office and the trial to remove him from office should have immediately been held, but Mitch McConnell chose to delay for political purposes. Now disqualification from holding future office is the priority, along with ensuring politicians know that crimes can be prosecuted even if they are committed while it's their last month in office. I don't know why you have to "recall" this; it is common sense knowledge to all. 

Sorry that your wish balloon drone is just that. Keep blowing; the balloon needs more hot air.

I have no idea what "wish balloon" you are referring to, but this was a really  horrible attempt at insulting me lol. Why bother. 
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Also: if prosecution or impeachment after someone is out of office is unconstitutional, I wonder what all those 2016 "lock her up" chants were referring to?  🤔
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@Double_R
And it was the president they impeached. The trial is entirely in regards to his actions *as president*.

Do you believe original intent should play any role in this, or do you really see this as a semantic game of gotcha?
Great so if the President of the United States is impeached, then Article 1 Section 4 states that the Chief Justice must preside. Since he is not presiding the trial is inherently unconstitutional.
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@Danielle
Also: if prosecution or impeachment after someone is out of office is unconstitutional, I wonder what all those 2016 "lock her up" chants were referring to?  🤔
Who said ex-presidents are immune from prosecution? Try him in federal court all you want lol
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@HistoryBuff
They could have been killed. And they are still too spineless to stand up to a man who attacked democracy and endangered their lives. 
Nothing is stopping Schumer from walking over to the FBI, except for common sense of course.
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@Greyparrot
They could have been killed. And they are still too spineless to stand up to a man who attacked democracy and endangered their lives. 
Nothing is stopping Schumer from walking over to the FBI, except for common sense of course.
this is, in no way, a response to what I said. When the president commits an impeachable offense, you impeach him. That has nothing to do with the FBI.

The republicans are playing games trying to avoid the question even though trump endangered their lives and endangered democracy itself. They are cowards who are choosing not to do their jobs because they are too afraid of trump's fanatics. 
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this is, in no way, a response to what I said. When the president commits an impeachable offense, you impeach him.

Then you agree this Theatrical Display is about securing power and has nothing to do with punishing Trump or justice or "protecting democracy" since the FBI is more than capable of doing all of this in a timely manner to any citizen.

You can't possibly think Republicans can "play games" with the FBI....do you?
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Then you agree this Theatrical Display is about securing power and has nothing to do with punishing Trump or justice or "protecting democracy" since the FBI is more than capable of doing all of this in a timely manner to any citizen.
what? no. I didn't say anything like that. The constitution makes it very clear that if a president commits an impeachable offense he can and should be impeached by congress. So the question of whether or not trump should be impeached has nothing to do with the FBI. Trump committed an impeachable offense while in office. He was impeached while in office. The senate now needs to vote on whether to convict, it is very straight forward. 

You can't possibly think Republicans can "play games" with the FBI....do you?
why would the question of impeachment have anything to do with the FBI?
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why would the question of impeachment have anything to do with the FBI?

Don't you want to see Trump punished? The FBI could have him in jail tomorrow, yet you are still glued to this political Theatre that could go on for years. Where is your outrage?
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.....what? no. I didn't say anything like that...
As if you expecet GP to fairly address what you state.

Trumpets words to all of insurrections and 74 million inepts { deplorable }...."we love you" and "your special" and  his final words about capitol terrosim  "...this is just the beginning"....

It is the beginning if this narcissistic, racist bigoted nut-case nazi's  is ever given a platform to encourage them to continue to "fight like hell".

Their leader Trumpet is not being held accountable by most of the republicans in the Senate. Spineless cowards who lack moral integrity. Sad at best, dangerous to all USA citizens and humanity, at worst.   Their basically narrow-minded idiots who cannot see beyond what will their votes in there district think of them.