AND there it is

Author: Dr.Franklin

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#31
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
Why are you pretending that I care about establishment DC Republicans?
you care about trump don't you? He has been profiting off immigrant labor his entire life.

Cause living on a 0% wage when there is no job is so much better.
so in your world if the options are starve because companies won't pay a wage you can survive on, or stave because you can't find a job, we should do absolutely nothing? At a fundamental level, why should a job exist if someone can't survive while doing it? Why should we allow corporations to make billions while paying people a wage they can't live on?

How's that government charity working out for Venezuela?
That isn't even remotely similar. They heavily based their economy on oil. Also, america helped cripple their economy with sanctions. It is a ridiculous comparison to the american economy. 

Although I feel like government charity is a misnomer since nobody volunteers to pay taxes
you're right. Which is why only right wing people would call it that. It is called a government service. Which is why governments exist, to provide services.

all people are not happy with how taxes spent on the poor help perpetuate the behavior and lifestyle choices of the poor that keep them perpetually unproductive and unemployable by removing the most driving Maslownian incentive to invest in yourself, namely, survival.
this is a fundamental misunderstanding. the right does love to brand anyone who can't succeed in a rigged system as a loser. And it must be their fault. It couldn't possibly be that the system is designed to keep them poor so extra money can be forced upward to the very richest.

America is one of those weird countries that provides free food to poor people and also free emergency care when they have a heart attack due to obesity. So compassionate.
free would imply you don't have to pay for it. America is one of those countries that provides emergency care when you have a heart attack, then bankrupts you for needing emergency care. It also ignores the fact that if that same person had gotten medical care years earlier, they could have avoided the heart attack. But due to a ridiculous health care policy that shits on the poor, they can't get basic healthcare until their condition becomes life threatening. At which point it is much more difficult (and expensive) to try to treat. 
#32
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@Dr.Franklin
this feels eerily similar to Obama second term- more troops in the mid-east and the swamp is clearly seen,
Perpetual WAR.

1984.
#33
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@HistoryBuff
you care about trump don't you?
Absolutely not. He is just a convenient donkey that happened to be the enemy of my enemy. The establishment DC.

so in your world if the options are starve because companies won't pay a wage you can survive on, or stave because you can't find a job, we should do absolutely nothing?
When there are no jobs, everyone starves. See Venezuela.

free would imply you don't have to pay for it.
The poor pay little to no taxes. You already know this

America is one of those countries that provides emergency care when you have a heart attack, then bankrupts you for needing emergency care.
The poor don't have to pay for emergency care. You should know this. I actually got a waiver for a 1000+ dollar emergency visit because I was in between health care coverages and they sent me a bill for it. I simply gave them an income statement, and they waived the fee. You have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Typical cloistered indoctrinated Marxist.
#34
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@Greyparrot
Absolutely not. He is just a convenient donkey that happened to be the enemy of my enemy. The establishment DC.
But then once elected he did virtually everything the DC establishment wanted him to. He funneled money to the rich, cut services to the poor and middle class, appointed right wing corporatist (please note corporatist not social right wing) judges. The policies he enacted were no different that any swamp creature republican. He just did it while being more of an asshole and more blatantly corrupt. 

Topic's author
#35
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@3RU7AL
yeah...
#36
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@drafterman
What "severe consequences" did anyone receive for disputing the results?
Protesters somehow magically turned into "violent insurrectionists".

The "news" can't stop spreading the word that all "libertarians" and "anarchists" and "trump supporters" are dangerous criminals who don't deserve to speak.
#37
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@HistoryBuff
The policies he enacted were no different that any swamp creature republican. 

That's too bad that you can't understand why establishment Republicans hated Trump so much.
#38
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@Dr.Franklin
@HistoryBuff
 If you are not prepared to invest in yourself to have the ability to produce more than the minimum wage, then you can't and really shouldn't expect an employer to take a risk and invest in you either. American economics is run on the mutual self-interests of consumers and investors, not charity.
#39
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@Greyparrot
The poor pay little to no [NET] taxes. You already know this
#40
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@Greyparrot
That's too bad that you can't understand why establishment Republicans hated Trump so much.
Oh I understand, it doesn't seem like you do though. they hated him because he dropped the vail. Establishment republicans love racist rhetoric, they just dog whistle it. They hint at racist bullshit which their racist followers understand, but non-racists can just ignore because they didn't come out and say it. Trump just comes out and says it. There's no hiding the racism from trump, because he just says it out loud.

Establishment republicans love corruption, but they do it in ways that are hard to report on. Things like doing favors for an industry, then when you leave congress you sit on the board of a company in that industry so you can get your kick backs. Trump made his corruption blatant. Scheduling a G7 summit as his golf course. Getting members of his government to stay in his hotels. Overcharging his own inauguration committee (a charity) by millions of dollars in order to funnel money given to a charity into his own pocket. He took the corruption and just stopped pretending like it wasn't happening. 

But most of all, they hate that he is a complete asshole. His insane, unhinged tweeting of complete bald faced lies is hard to defend. They get constantly asked about trump's latest scandals, lies etc.

They want to do all the same things trump did, just quieter. On actual substance, trump had virtually no daylight between what he did and what the establishment wanted him to do. 
#41
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@Greyparrot
 invest in yourself 
Strangely, highly technical jobs (like microchip fabrication) are performed by native Malaysians (who never went to college) because it's cheaper for businesses to train their own employees than to hire graduates.

The real scam is getting your future employees to spend their own money just for the sliver of a hope that they might get a job.

It's a lot like getting college athletes to perform for FREE (netting the owners tons of cash) while dangling the faint hope of a career in "the majors".
#42
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@Greyparrot
If you are not prepared to invest in yourself to have the ability to produce more than the minimum wage, then you can't and really shouldn't expect an employer to take a risk and invest in you either. American economics is run on the mutual self-interests of consumers and investors, not charity.
you are completely missing the point. Let me put it this way. If every single person in america "invested in themselves" and were able to magically have a university/college degree, do you believe that high paying jobs would magically appear? Do you think McDonalds or walmart would pay these people more? Hell no. They need people to do jobs for very little money so they can funnel more cash to their CEO and investors. These companies don't care if you invest in yourself or not. Even if every single person worked as hard as they possibly can, a large percentage of them would still be unable to earn enough to live. That is how the system is designed. 

#43
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do you believe that high paying jobs would magically appear?
Supply and demand. If people are allowed to invest without Libtard restrictions, then jobs are created. If not, then jobs are destroyed along with the opportunities. The "magic" comes from motivated people allowed to invest and take a risk on each other.

You are not one of those Marxist fanatics that believe jobs are a right and not a privilege, are you?

They need people to do jobs for very little money so they can funnel more cash to their CEO and investors.
Most of the jobs are now done by robots since Libtards think it's a great idea to set an artificial wage that destroys jobs and creates robots.

Artificial wages creates jobs for artificial robots. Good job.
#44
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@3RU7AL
Protesters somehow magically turned into "violent insurrectionists".
Not magically. When they forced their way into the capitol building.

The "news" can't stop spreading the word that all "libertarians" and "anarchists" and "trump supporters" are dangerous criminals who don't deserve to speak.
No news is saying that.
#45
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@HistoryBuff
They need people to do jobs for very little money so they can funnel more cash to their CEO and investors.
Well stated.
#46
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@3RU7AL
They need people to do jobs for very little money so they can funnel more cash to their CEO and investors.
They don't need shit workers that produce less than what the employer invests in them. That's how businesses fail.
#47
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@3RU7AL
They need people to do jobs for very little money so they can funnel more cash to their CEO and investors.
Have you ever seen the show Pawn Stars? Everyone makes a choice when deciding how to trade their labor for things of value.

They can either take a risk-free offer from the Pawnshop and let the Pawnshop take on all the risk, or you can walk out of the store and take the personal risk yourself.

The vast majority of Americans choose to take the risk-free option as there are more wage jobs than self-employed people. If the business fails due to incompetence like thinking they need to run as a charity, then the workers are shielded from the loss. Risk-free. And the way they have to pay for that insurance is by producing more than they are paid.

It's a mutually beneficial trade that Marxists LOVE to fuck up with stupid unworkable ideas.
#48
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@drafterman
The "news" can't stop spreading the word that all "libertarians" and "anarchists" and "trump supporters" are dangerous criminals who don't deserve to speak.
No news is saying that.
#49
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@Greyparrot
They don't need shit workers that produce less than what the employer invests in them. That's how businesses fail.
EVERYONE AGREES WITH THIS.
#50
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@Greyparrot
as there are more wage jobs than self-employed people.
Please explain to me how an economy is supposed to function (even hypothetically) with 100% self-employment.
#51
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@Greyparrot
Supply and demand. If people are allowed to invest without Libtard restrictions, then jobs are created.
What restrictions? What are these terrible restrictions that are somehow preventing jobs being created?

The "magic" comes from motivated people allowed to invest and take a risk on each other.
you completely skipped my question. If everyone invests in themselves do McDonalds, walmart etc cease to exist? Their business model is based on underpaying employees. So if everyone "invests" in themselves do these companies suddenly pay their works way more, or do they all go out of business?

Artificial wages creates jobs for artificial robots. Good job.
there is no such things as an "artificial wage". What we have now is suppressed wages by greedy corporations squeezing the middle class out of existence. 

#52
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@3RU7AL
Please explain to me how an economy is supposed to function (even hypothetically) with 100% self-employment.
You take on all the risks of trading your labor. Simple. You take personal loans to get tools you need and you take on all the risks. If you fuck up and set a price too high since you don't have the "EVIL CEO" to blame the fuckup on, then you pay the price.
#53
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@HistoryBuff
there is no such things as an "artificial wage".
Then why not 100 dollars an hour? If it isn't an artificial wage, it surely is an arbitrary artificial wage set by elite people that have absolutely nothing to do with the mutually beneficial trade between employer and employee.

Imagine if you went to get gas and the law says you have to arbitrarily buy 15 gallons of gas, whether your car can hold it or not. It's the same thing. You have absolutely no ability to form your own contract with the gas station. That's tyranny. Not freedom.

Job wages are not set by employer OR employee alone.

It's a mutually agreed on number, not a number set artificially by some Washington DC elite.
#54
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@Greyparrot
You take personal loans to get tools you need and you take on all the risks.
Are the banksters also self-employed?
#55
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@3RU7AL
They can be but that would be hella risky.
#56
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@Greyparrot
They can be but that would be hella risky.
Who issues and distributes "money" in your liberated utopian hellscape?
#57
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@Greyparrot
Then why not 100 dollars an hour? If it isn't an artificial wage, it surely is an arbitrary artificial wage set by elite people that have absolutely nothing to do with the mutually beneficial trade between employer and employee.
It's not arbitrary. It is an amount designed to allow workers to live. There is nothing arbitrary about that. 

Imagine if you went to get gas and the law says you have to arbitrarily buy 15 gallons of gas, whether your car can hold it or not. It's the same thing.
not even remotely similar. 

Job wages are not set by employer OR employee alone.
you're right. Government regulation should involved. 

It's a mutually agreed on number, not a number set artificially by some Washington DC elite.
of course not. Washington is not telling an employer how much they should pay their employee. They are telling them the minimum that they can pay their employee. If they want to pay them $20, $40 an hour they are more than welcome to. The government is setting the floor, companies are more than able to mutually agree with people anywhere above that floor. 

#58
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@3RU7AL
The vast majority of Americans choose to take the risk-free option as there are more wage jobs than self-employed people. If the business fails due to incompetence like thinking they need to run as a charity, then the workers are shielded from the loss. Risk-free. And the way they have to pay for that insurance is by producing more than they are paid.

It's a mutually beneficial trade that Marxists LOVE to fuck up with stupid unworkable ideas.

#59
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@HistoryBuff
of course not. Washington is not telling an employer how much they should pay their employee. They are telling them the minimum that they can pay their employee. 
They are telling employers that they MUST DISCRIMINATE against employees who would agree to work for less. Because Washington DC does not give a fuck about those people. They care about their union lobby base first and foremost.

Did you know that minimum wage is an idea supported by big trade unions and big labor unions as the primal method to destroy the competition? The minimum wage is the final incarnation of crony politics in action.

Friedman called it an "Unholy Coalition"



#60
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@3RU7AL
Show me the part where anyone is saying that ALL libertarians and trump supporters are dangerous criminals that don't deserve to speak.