Is nature more powerful than science?

Author: Tradesecret

Posts

Total: 99
Topic's author
#61
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
It appears to me that you know little about how lecturers tutor and teach at college.  No professor in any field or sphere pretends or purports to be an expert in every area of a discipline. 

In seminary, there are always various disciplines, OT, NT, church history, languages, pastoral care, preaching, hermeneutics, systematic theology, Pauline epistles, gospels, poetry, wisdom, apocalyptic, evangelism, Confession, Reformation and Renaissance church history, world history, religions, etc etc. 

NOONE is an expert on all of it. And no pretends to be.  Well except for you. 

And this of course is how it is in any other discipline - be it science, medicine, law, economics, business. No one pretends or purports to be an expert on every subject. 

I don't.   

Nor do I have a desire to pretend to be - and to answer every question you put to me. There are lots of people on this site - who are able to attempt to answer it for you. 

Again, glad to have you back.  Now stop with the moaning and get with the program.  
#62
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Theweakeredge
I agree.
#63
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret

Stephen wrote: are a qualified Pastor & tutor so I though you may know how god did these things . so who is more better and qualified to turn to than you? You actually lecture on the scriptures

 No professor in any field or sphere pretends or purports to be an expert in every area of a discipline. [......................................................] NOONE is an expert on all of it. And no pretends to be. [...............................] No one pretends or purports to be an expert on every subject.  I don't.   

Do you even know what an "expert" is? .  It refers to a person who is very knowledgeable about or skilful in a particular area, Reverend. That is you sin't it?  Lets face it Reverend, you truly are an exceptional human being.

Your own claims concerning your very, very  impressive qualifications in religion/theology and ancient languages have elevated you to the - go to man -  I'm afraid Reverend.  To say that your CV is just  `outstanding ` is a very large understatement #57 . And this is leaving out all of the charity work and the   " significant amount  of time and  resources that you put into  trying to prevent abortions from happening".#64  And all this while juggling a farm too and your criminal law  case work and time the the court room defending said criminals .#13 I apologise if I have left anything out.

I have found that in my own  40+ years of experience in this field that people just like you resort to the practice of claiming a higher authority on matters by spouting out their own qualifications and status in such fields as if it allows you to  claim  to be,   or have,  and higher authority over those that you deem to be less or even poorly uneducated on such matters  . Indeed, you say as much here>>

" not all families are educated well - especially in public schools".#6 Tradesecret   

Says it all really, and goes a long way too in supporting my point above. 

I have found that people often resort to this type bragging tactic after finding themselves embarrassed and  on the back foot far too often for comfort. It is as if they are telling me to shut up and go away because they some how  believe that they are equipped with a more higher knowledge than I on such matters. Its a kind of lashing out  but politely. I think there is a name for it these days. 



There are lots of people on this site - who are able to attempt to answer it for you. 

Is there? And do they have your impressive qualifications? 


Stop the moaning...

Where have I moaned, Reverend?  


It is an exercise in getting people to ask questions. #40 Tradesecret

And I have asked you that considering that you say god makes the lightening and thunderstorms #56, why would god make a tempest " furious quell" while he was asleep in a boat  with his apostles and then decide to tell it to stop after being awakened by his terrified apostles in fear of their lives?  

Here you are, Reverend


Jesus Calms the Storm Mark 4:35-41


35 That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side.” 36 Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. There were also other boats with him. 37 A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. 38 Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?”
39 He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.
40 He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”
41 They were terrified and asked each other, “Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!”









#64
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
It appears to me that you know little about how lecturers tutor and teach at college.
Having never attended.
#65
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Dee Dee, I think you're confused. You're now sapamming the loony post to every thread. Why don't you take a breather and relax so you can orient yourself? You don't want to run afoul of the mods again for cross thread pollution and harassment do you? Just because you use schtick and a template doesn't mean your posts can't have new stuff in it.

Remember the last times I warned you and you didn't listen? You know what happened. The board will hate to lose its comic relief again. 
#66
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5



MY POST #32 TO THE BIBLE INEPT ETHANG5 THAT HE IS RUNNING AWAY FROM:


ETHANG5'S *FIRST*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL:

ETHANG5'S *SECOND*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL:

ETHANG5'S *THIRD*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL, BY POSTING TO TRADESECRET INSTEAD IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER TO MY POST #44.  SAME OLD RUNAWAY TEMPLATE ONCE AGAIN BY ETHANG5.

ETHANG5'S *FORTH*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL, BY POSTING TO TRADESECRET INSTEAD IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER TO MY POST #44.  SAME OLD RUNAWAY TEMPLATE ONCE AGAIN BY ETHANG5.


Poor ethang5 has  proven once again that his TEMPLATE of inept comical circular reasoning is rationally not working anymore.  The #2 Bible ignorant fool ethang5's SILENCE to post #32 in not addressing it as required, becomes his acceptance that what is said about Jesus is true, plain and simple. 



#67
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret
Thats like asking if wind is more powerful than observation ...of wind. Lol!
#68
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Dee Dee, are you ok? It seems you're suffering some sort of mental breakdown.

What you said about Jesus makes you a jabbering moron. Dude, you told us you willingly follow a murderous lunatic. You must be insane, or too stupid to chew gum and walk at the same time.

And your posts are still empty spam. 
#69
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Dee Dee, are you ok? It seems you're suffering some sort of mental breakdown.

What you said about Jesus makes you a jabbering moron. Dude, you told us you willingly follow a murderous lunatic. You must be insane, or too stupid to chew gum and walk at the same time.

And your posts are still empty spam. 
#70
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5



.

Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father which is priceless Bible stupidity,

MY POST #32 TO THE BIBLE INEPT ETHANG5 THAT HE IS RUNNING AWAY FROM:


ETHANG5'S *FIRST*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL:

ETHANG5'S *SECOND*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL:

ETHANG5'S *THIRD*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL, BY POSTING TO TRADESECRET INSTEAD IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER TO MY POST #44.  SAME OLD RUNAWAY TEMPLATE ONCE AGAIN BY ETHANG5.

ETHANG5'S *FORTH*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL, BY POSTING TO TRADESECRET INSTEAD IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER TO MY POST #44.  SAME OLD RUNAWAY TEMPLATE ONCE AGAIN BY ETHANG5.

ETHANG5'S *FIFTH*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL, BY POSTING TO TRADESECRET INSTEAD IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER TO MY POST #44.  SAME OLD RUNAWAY TEMPLATE ONCE AGAIN BY ETHANG5.

ETHANG5'S *SIXTH*  RUNAWAY RESPONSE FROM MY POST #32 IN NOT ADDRESSING ITS CONTENT OF HIM BEING A CONTINUED BIBLE FOOL, BY POSTING TO TRADESECRET INSTEAD IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER TO MY POST #44.  SAME OLD RUNAWAY TEMPLATE ONCE AGAIN BY ETHANG5.


Whoops, I checked once again to see if you addressed the following links in my post #32 directed to you in your latest RUNAWAY postS #68 and 69, and guess what? YOU DIDN'T, therefore Jesus and I are keeping track in how many complete RUNAWAYS you will have, at your laughable expense, to a simple request to address the following links:


How utterly embarrassing for you, but it comes with the territory of being the #2 Bible stupid and ignorant fool.  :(


IS THERE ANOTHER BIBLE INEPT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN THAT CAN HELP STOP THE COMPLETE EMBARRASSMENT ETHANG5 IS GOING THROUGH IN RUNNING AWAY FROM ADDRESSING SIMPLE QUESTIONS AS SHOWN IN THE LINKS ABOVE TO MY POST #32, ANYONE? PLEASE HELP HIM, SOMEONE, PLEASE!



.


#71
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Maybe the crazed murderous lunatic you follow will "help" me. No? He's as useless as you huh?

Too bad he can't save your loony posts from mindless repetition. 
#72
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5



.
Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms about Jesus' true MO, and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father which is priceless Bible stupidity, and has now committed the dreadful Unpardonable Sin 3 times,


YOUR QUOTE IN COMMITTING THE UNPARDONABLE SIN FOR THE "THIRD" TIME, OMG WHAT IDIOCY!: "Maybe the crazed murderous lunatic you follow will "help" me. No? He's as useless as you huh?"

Barring you from running away from Jesus' true MO for the 7th time, you have once again disparaged Jesus' spirit in now referring to Him as a "crazed murderous lunatic?!  Listen #2 Bible ignorant fool, what part of Jesus' Unpardonable Sin don't you understand? Like I have said before, you only have to commit this dreadful sin ONCE to be thrown into the fires of Hell, whereas you have now committed this sin in question THREE TIMES NOW as shown in the links below, WTF:


Your grasping for the proverbial straws that aren't even there for you to begin with, is really getting stupid on your part, please understand this blatant fact, okay? Therefore, to save yourself from even further embarrassment, isn't it time for you to gracefully as possible back out of this topic, and remain silent to my superior knowledge, like Tradesecret does when I have easily Bible Slapped Silly®️ him/her/unknown with biblical axioms like I am doing with you?  At least think about it, okay? Thank you. 



.



#73
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5






In ethang5's post #71, did he address my post #32's question to him? NO, HE DID NOT, other than to runaway from it again with child like jibberish! LOL

This is the post that ethang5 refuses to address to its question to him and runs away from:


These are the runaway links that ethang5 uses to not address my main post to him in question shown above: 









Looks like the Bible inept ethang5 wants to set a new record in how many times a pseudo-christian like him can run away from a specific post directed to him alone!  Oh, oh, he is getting close to Tradesecrets record of running away posts from me at being an astounding number of 23, whew!



.
#74
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Hi! I'm Dee Dee. I worship a homophobic serial killer! Let's debate!
Nah. I'd rather debate sane people. But thanks Dee Dee.

You're running away!
That is what rational people to homophobic serial killers. D'uh.

#75
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5




.
Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms about Jesus' true MO, and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father which is priceless Bible stupidity, and has now committed the dreadful Unpardonable Sin 3 times,

In ethang5's post #74 above, and once again, did he address my post #32's content to him in being a complete Bible stupid and ignorant fool? NO, HE DID NOT, other than to runaway from it again with yet another  circular reasoning fallacy, which now shows there are no more straws for him to try and grasp to save face! LOL


This is the post that ethang5 refuses to address showing his complete Bible stupidity and ignorance and runs away from:

These are the runaway links that ethang5 uses to not address my main post to him in question shown above: 










Looks like the Bible inept ethang5 wants to set a new record in how many times a pseudo-christian like him can run away from a specific post directed to him alone!  Tradesecret is probably getting nervous because at this time he/him/unknown holds the record at 23 runaway posts, where the ineptness of the Bible shows that ethang5 is moving in to take the record away from Tradesecret!  LOL


.


#76
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Dead horse on asle 9! Dead horse on asle 9! 

Hi, I'm See Dee, I worship a homophobic serial killer, why are you refusing to address my spam?
Because I think homophobic serial killer worshippers are idiots.

#77
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5



.
Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms about Jesus' true MO, and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father which is priceless Bible stupidity, and has now committed the dreadful Unpardonable Sin 3 times, and is now the king of girly boy non sequiturs,

In ethang5's NON SEQUITUR post #76 above, and once again, did he address my post #32's content to him in being a complete Bible stupid and ignorant fool? NO, HE DID NOT, other than to runaway from it again with yet another Satanic NON SEQUITUR! LOL


This is the post that ethang5 refuses to address showing his complete Bible stupidity and ignorance and runs away from:

These are the runaway links that ethang5 uses to not address my main post to him in question shown above: 













.

#78
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
You're back to spamming the same thing again homophobe worshipper.

If you're posting to me, why are you referring to me in the 3rd person? Are you still confused? Not tired beating that dead horse yet Mr. Comic relief?

You may have run out of anything new to say Dee Dee, but my posts will always be fresh enough to burn you anew. 
#79
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5



.
Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms about Jesus' true MO, and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father which is priceless Bible stupidity, and has now committed the dreadful Unpardonable Sin 3 times, and is now the king of girly boy non sequiturs,


NON SEQUITUR: a statement (such as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said.

Directly relating to my post #32 shown below, poor Bible inept ethang5 has used this lame "Girly Boy Tactic" of using non sequiturs to try and run away from said post that outright shows him to be the 2nd most biblically stupid and ignorant of the Bible pseudo-christian here on DEBATEART, where Tradesecret remains #1 in this respect.


These are the totally embarrassing non sequitur runaway links that ethang5 uses to not address my main post #32 to him in question shown above: 




Now, since ethang5 doesn't have the nerve, subsequent to peeing in his pants when I challenged him to debate his non sequitur status, let us await once again in ethang5 adding more of his "Little Girly Boy" non sequiturs to the ever growing and flustering list above! LOL! 

Ethang5, place your next runaway non sequitur here: ________________________________________________________________________________________________



.
#80
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Lol. You actually think your infantile taunts will move me.

But you've already confessed you worship a moron, so moronic behavior is probably imbedded in your religious doctrine.

I've never met someone stupid enough to willingly worship a petty, homophobic serial killer before. Stupidity that profound is fascinating to me. I mean, do you try to emulate him? Do you go out and assault gay people as a offering to the moron you worship? Perhaps the FBI should consider you a person of interest in a few hate cases.

But Ethan will still be here for you. When you finally tire of beating your dead horse, and become aware that you're the comic relief of the board, I will be your friend. Freedom of religion I say. If you want to worship some disgusting moron, you should be free to do so.

But then don't be surprised that people think you're a disgusting moron. Are you ready to pay the cost of your faith Dee Dee? 

65 days later

#81
Mandrakel
Mandrakel's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 144
0
2
2
Mandrakel's avatar
Mandrakel
0
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
Is there a spiritual element to the forces of nature
No.
I presume that was a question; there is no question mark.
Science is merely a label we place on the behavior of our natural environment and there is absolutely nothing spiritual about that.

.......why does it create such emotional responses? 
Obviously, if your house were about to be blown over and your life was in danger, you would tend to get just a tad emotional about it.



#82
Mandrakel
Mandrakel's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 144
0
2
2
Mandrakel's avatar
Mandrakel
0
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
Because nature is nature and science is science.
That is hardly a valid, intelligent, nor rational explanation as the difference between the two words, is it?

#83
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mandrakel
Very Ebucian.

I personally don't think that there was anything particularly rational or intelligent about Trade's opening eulogy.....Though let me balance that by not attempting to invalidate the sanctity of their freedom to express.

Nonetheless, I've sort of lost my train of thought, in respect of this discussion.....But I'm certain that in context, my submission was wholly pertinent.
#84
Mandrakel
Mandrakel's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 144
0
2
2
Mandrakel's avatar
Mandrakel
0
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
Nonetheless, I've sort of lost my train of thought, in respect of this discussion....
That's okay. While you gather your thoughts I will ponder the word "Ebucian".

7 days later

#85
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
I was watching a thunderstorm recently in my hometown.  It began as a rumble in the night.  Low growling. Splashes of light from the lightening as it moved from one end of the sky to the other.  Grey clouds turned to darkness - and the evening turned black. The thunder boomed overhead - the windows shook from the sound - lightening bolts zigged and zagged through the night - even at times looking like they were going to bolt right at me.  

The trees outside were bending over - threatening to break in two.  The dogs were whimpering inside the doors and wanting to huddle up to us.  The mountains in the distance - which we could hardly make out - were shaking and dancing through the rain. The drops were like bullets horizontally and twisting every way with the wind. The roof was creaking - and the noise of the wind was deafening.  Nature is pretty awesome - very powerful. Mind blowing and so very dangerous when it wants to be. 

Yet, who or what controls nature? Does science control nature? Does humanity in any of it advanced states control it?  Does it control itself? Science certainly might help to explain it.  And science helps us to explain ourselves.  But what controls nature? What is its driving force? What causes it to do what it does? Instinct! Natural forces! latent scientific principles. Aliens? 

And as an aside - how do people respond or react or feel about the powerful forces of nature? Are people afraid of thunderstorms? OR do they think oh - well that is just a scientific principle acting out - don't worry about it.  

Is there a spiritual element to the forces of nature - or is it just basic science? And if the latter, why does it create such emotional responses? 

The Law of Physics controls nature.  Or rather nature is controlled by the law of Physics.   Not that the laws are controlling agents - but that its principles are overarching in all such situations.  Humanity obviously does not control nature - or rather not things such as thunderstorms.  

There does not seem to be a need to imply spirituality into the natural.  That is to put the cart before the horse. 

11 days later

#86
ronjs
ronjs's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 268
0
2
2
ronjs's avatar
ronjs
0
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
Science has no power, so yes nature is more powerful
#87
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@ronjs
You've hit on something significant I'd never considered. It explains, perhaps, why science and nature are a combined forum topic, because science is merely the reasoned explanation of nature, where man has been enabled to discover the reasoning. Without man, there is no science, effectively; it's all nature. Sometimes we even get it wrong, but nature continues, unabated. We just figure out we're wrong and alter our reasoning [science] accordingly. Something like climate science, which is, after all, a very young science, respectively speaking. Most new science is fits and starts. but nature continues...
#88
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@ronjs
Trades gone.

And there is no comparison to be made between science and nature.....Other than to come to the conclusion that there is no comparison to be made.

And Trades intentions, were as ever, underwritten by conditioned theism.

Nature is more powerful..... Therefore, my particular GOD.......As it were.

Yet another futile exercise, attempting to prove the unproveable. 
#89
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
And Trades intentions, were as ever, underwritten by conditioned theism.
What does this mean? 
#90
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Timid8967
It means exactly what it says.

"Trade" being how I generally referred to the estranged Tradesecret.


Trade was/is a highly conditioned Christian theist.....And all roads tended to lead to the Christian GOD.

So science and nature, was actually a reference to alternative belief and their unerring belief in Christianity.