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@EtrnlVw
I'm usually defending myself from a position of being treated as inferior because of my beliefs per say.
Me too.
Why the Attitude!?
Posts
Total:
81
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@ethang5
@drafterman
@Tradesecret
@FLRW
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ETRNLVW,
YOUR REVEALING QUOTE IN POST #49: “Your boy FLRW here is making my point very clear. Unfortunately for him, he will never be able to look past other secularists presumptions, he's allowed someone to lead him to believe that believing in God is a product of human weakness, and so all he can do is parrot that baloney in many of the topics here.”
Barring your ungodly and embarrassing notion of FLRW being Drafterman’s “boy,” which goes directly against Jesus’ word in Luke 6:31, in once again showing you that you are no more a TRUE Christian than ethang5 and Tradesecret! That being said, and for the most part, the hell bound Atheists like FLRW think we Christians have human weakness is because we accept and believe in an immoral pagan Bronze and Iron Age Jesus as Yahweh God incarnate in the 21st century, understood?
In being a true Christian, of which I am the only one within this forum, I have had to accept the biblical axioms that our Jesus is defined as follows within the Bible. Whereas Jesus is shown to be greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, abortionist, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, malevolent, and a serial killer, PERIOD!
You, on the other hand, cannot accept the above biblical FACTS, but to only make yourself the continued Bible fool in trying to explain the said facts above away by turning yourself in to a Satanic pretzel.
This of course is not mentioning that Jesus for the most part is only mentioned in the Bible, whereas His foundation presence the beginning outside of the Bible is unworthy to say the least. As I have stated before, the main reason that I accept a Jesus as shown in the very disturbing aforementioned biblical facts, is that upon me being heaven-bound, there will be NO WOMEN in heaven where we superior Bible men had to put up with these 2nd class Sisters of Eve while upon earth, which was enough of a problem, praise!
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@FLRW
Our dependence is well expressed in that verse when Paul wrote about the thorn in his flesh. Paul pleaded with God three times to take it away but God told him that His power is made perfect in Paul's weakness. ... God simply wants us to surrender our inadequacy to him so that He can fill us with His strength.
Humans are worthless trash, that's why they need "YHWH".
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@EtrnlVw
Now lets pretend for a moment that God (as proposed as the origins of our existence) is not the product of wishful thinking, lack of intelligence, indoctrination, mental illness or whatever BS atheists presume and that God does exist. How do you think these presumptuous attitudes help in honest, thought provoking debate? how will this help between two people trying to solve an inquiry about this subject matter?
Ok.
Your "intelligent" "creator" "god" is totally real in the realest real literally real real way.
What does your "god" want me to do?
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@janesix
They show me things I did not know. THat is how I know they are real.
Private, direct experience = GNOSTICISM
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@ludofl3x
You say that as if your very wordy shoulder shrugs and pretending to know something everyone else doesn't counts as an argument, when you have literally demonstrated nothing at all. You're not making arguments. YOu're making assertions.
Well stated.
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@janesix
I guess though, if the answers were handed to me, I would miss the mystery which is a significant and pleasant, sometimes exciting part of life.
Sometimes you can have both.
Many of my "epiphanies" have been from remembering things I was told or read many years prior that finally "clicked".
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@EtrnlVw
The one thing I do know is that nobody knows what the F is going on.I can see why you would believe that, especially with such a vast array of information and seemingly contradicting religious sources and a method of study limited to just the material aspect of things but it's not really that complicated and there's been a lot of intelligent beings that have highlighted factual bits of knowledge. Once the pieces are all sorted out and put in the correct spaces we have pretty clear picture. You just need someone who can put all the pieces in the correct order or maybe you configure it yourself.
For example,
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@3RU7AL
Ok.Your "intelligent" "creator" "god" is totally real in the realest real literally real real way.
First of all, I don't appreciate being treated like I'm one of your dipstick posters you want to interrogate for fun. If you want to ask me a question do it with sincerity and without sarcasm as if you want to really find an answer. And then, if I feel like you're being for real, I'll give you what you are asking for.
What does your "god" want me to do?
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@EtrnlVw
What does your "god" want me to do?
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@3RU7AL
Many of my "epiphanies" have been from remembering things I was told or read many years prior that finally "clicked".
Can you share one with us?
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@ethang5
Well, when I was a tiny tot, I encountered someone who thought they were really smart. I hammered them with objections and expletives and magnificently subtle sarcasm. This went on for days, I don't know, weeks, maybe even months until I finally reached the core of their philosophy. The lynchpin. And it was something they called, "NOUMENON". I gasped in amazement. THAT IS THE ABSOLUTELY MOST NON-SENSICAL, IRRATIONAL, INSANE CONCEPT I'VE EVER HEARD OF. ARE YOU EVEN SERIOUS?
I laughed myself nearly to death and then never spoke to them again.
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@3RU7AL
Thanks for sharing. But that was an "epiphany" for you?
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@ethang5
Thanks for sharing. But that was an "epiphany" for you?
Yeah, because some time after that I realized "NOUMENON" is logically necessary.
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@EtrnlVw
Atheists, why is it you feel that Theism as a proposition to be something you perceive as absurd or ridiculous?
Because theists not only believe with lack of evidence, they believe it irrespective to evidence.
or the results of mental issues (that's my fav lol)...
I would disagree. Throughout history, it isn't rare to see people who pin unexplainable things on a God. Take the cargo cult as an example.
It is common knowledge that settlers often sailed and conquered land, despite their being islanders living on "empty" land. When the islanders arrived, they usually brought technology and food, things that the islanders had never seen. When clothing and items needed repairing, they were shipped away and new items kept arriving as "cargo" in ships and planes. The islanders had never seen the settlers repair anything themselves, only they pack away their broken items into a cargo and magically, days later, they came back polished and repaired.
Evidently, then, the cargo must be of supernatural origin. As if in corroboration of this, the settlers did do certain things that could only have been ritual ceremonies
They build tall masts with wires attached to them; they sit listening to small boxes that glow with light and emit curious noises and strangled voices; they persuade the local people to dress up in identical clothes and march them up and down - and it would hardly be possible to devise a more useless occupation than that. And then the native realizes that he has stumbled on the answer to the mystery. It is these incomprehensible action that are rituals employed by the settlers to persuade the Gods to send the cargo. The the native wants cargo, then he too must do these things.
Curiously, the exact same thing happened independently on islands that were widely separated both geographically and culturally, as is noted by David Attenborough. Other islands started this "cargo cult" to explain these mysterious boxes which also seemed to contain goodies.
So no, I would not call religious people "mentally ill", though I will say that they are terribly misled.
I'd like to know what is so superior about interpreting the universe as a product of matter rather than a product of intelligent work,
To put simply, the prior has been tested by scientists around the globe, while contradicts almost all scientific facts that we know. Consider the following
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
Isaiah 40:22
Isaiah 40:22
Would you really call the earth a circle? Would you call a basketball a circle? The only people who would seriously call a ball a circle are little children who do not know the term sphere. Funnily enough, people used to believe the earth is flat.
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In short, I treat Christians like how I would treat the "cargo cult". At the end of the day, you only live one life so if you want to waste your days praying for a cargo ship of goodies to come or for a man to rid you of your sins, you have all the freedom in the world to do as you wish. Personally though, I wouldn't want to.
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@Wagyu
Atheists, why is it you feel that Theism as a proposition to be something you perceive as absurd or ridiculous?Because theists not only believe with lack of evidence, they believe it irrespective to evidence.
This is coming from someone who dismisses every piece of evidence because it conflicts with this opinion. LOL!
Christians continually put up all sorts of evidence. Evidence which is credible and plausible. Yet you, like EVERY atheist refuse to accept any of it. That is the description of someone who refuses to believe irrespective of the evidence. The fact that you think that if you repeat - "there is no evidence" is not evidence that there is no evidence.
or the results of mental issues (that's my fav lol)...I would disagree. Throughout history, it isn't rare to see people who pin unexplainable things on a God. Take the cargo cult as an example.It is common knowledge that settlers often sailed and conquered land, despite their being islanders living on "empty" land. When the islanders arrived, they usually brought technology and food, things that the islanders had never seen. When clothing and items needed repairing, they were shipped away and new items kept arriving as "cargo" in ships and planes. The islanders had never seen the settlers repair anything themselves, only they pack away their broken items into a cargo and magically, days later, they came back polished and repaired.Evidently, then, the cargo must be of supernatural origin. As if in corroboration of this, the settlers did do certain things that could only have been ritual ceremoniesThey build tall masts with wires attached to them; they sit listening to small boxes that glow with light and emit curious noises and strangled voices; they persuade the local people to dress up in identical clothes and march them up and down - and it would hardly be possible to devise a more useless occupation than that. And then the native realizes that he has stumbled on the answer to the mystery. It is these incomprehensible action that are rituals employed by the settlers to persuade the Gods to send the cargo. The the native wants cargo, then he too must do these things.Curiously, the exact same thing happened independently on islands that were widely separated both geographically and culturally, as is noted by David Attenborough. Other islands started this "cargo cult" to explain these mysterious boxes which also seemed to contain goodies.So no, I would not call religious people "mentally ill", though I will say that they are terribly misled.
What a ridiculous argument. Just because some democrats are cannibals and pedophiles does not mean that all are. Just because some people pin unexplainable things on God does not mean that all theists do. Theists pin everything on God. Most things which are explainable by the way. Things that are unexplainable by humanity - the god of the gaps myth is an atheistic strawman argument. Demonstrated time and time to be false.
I'd like to know what is so superior about interpreting the universe as a product of matter rather than a product of intelligent work,To put simply, the prior has been tested by scientists around the globe, while contradicts almost all scientific facts that we know. Consider the followingIt is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
Isaiah 40:22Would you really call the earth a circle? Would you call a basketball a circle? The only people who would seriously call a ball a circle are little children who do not know the term sphere. Funnily enough, people used to believe the earth is flat.
That is not an argument. It is an ad hominin attack. It is simply ridiculous. The writer is not suggesting the world is a circle or a globe or even flat. It is a metaphor - just like the rest of the sentence - inhabitants like grasshoppers. And the heavens being stretched out like curtains. As per usual, you demonstrate only your ignorance of grammar, let alone what the write is actually saying. If you cannot even understand the difference between the different types of the english language, it hardly surprises me if you don't recognize what evidence is.
In short, I treat Christians like how I would treat the "cargo cult". At the end of the day, you only live one life so if you want to waste your days praying for a cargo ship of goodies to come or for a man to rid you of your sins, you have all the freedom in the world to do as you wish. Personally though, I wouldn't want to.
No - you just treat all people rudely. And you treat yourself the same way.
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@Tradesecret
Big talk coming from someone who couldn't defend their bible.
Christians continually put up all sorts of evidence. Evidence which is credible and plausible.
What evidence? Pascal Wagers argument for God? Kalam cosmological argument? The fine tuning argument? The ontological argument? Those are all extremely poor arguments in favour for Gods exitance, all of which have been debunked in a neat little YouTube series.
What a ridiculous argument.
It's not an argument. It's meant to demonstrate that religious people are not mentally ill and their these delusions are a product people physiological need to know everything.
Nevertheless, Christianity seems very like the cargo ship religion. Consider the following.
The cargo religion explains who the cargos fill up with goodies.
Christianity explains humanity, things such as right and wrong and the beginning of the universe.
The cargo religion only makes a thing logical, but doesn't provide facts. E.g the religion makes it so that people can understand how cargos fill up. It doesn't consist actual evidence, say, a photograph of this God.
Christianity only makes a thing logical, but doesn't provide facts. E.g the religion makes it so that people understand the shape of the globe. You'll never find an atomic structure or mathematical formula in the bible.
The writer is not suggesting the world is a circle or a globe or even flat. It is a metaphor - just like the rest of the sentence - inhabitants like grasshoppers. And the heavens being stretched out like curtains
Notice how the rest of the sentence states inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in. Clearly, you are the one with poor grammatical skills if you are being bamboozled by this simple poetic line.
Of course, when describing the shape of the earth, there is no "it's curvature bent like a circle", it is simply above the circle of the earth. An assertion. A fact.
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@Wagyu
Big talk coming from someone who couldn't defend their bible.
I have always maintained that the Bible and God do not need defending, LOLL!
Christians continually put up all sorts of evidence. Evidence which is credible and plausible.What evidence? Pascal Wagers argument for God? Kalam cosmological argument? The fine tuning argument? The ontological argument? Those are all extremely poor arguments in favour for Gods exitance, all of which have been debunked in a neat little YouTube series.
Only a dimwit would suggest that any of these airy fairy tales are needed to provide evidence. Christians don't live in ivory towers like atheists. We live in the real world.
Where things like love and mercy and kindness and forgiveness and reconciliation and grace make a difference. These ordinary things of life are all the evidence we need to demonstrate beyond doubt about the mess you guys live in.
We have the unmistakable proof and evidence of a life changed. We don't look or give arguments that put most people to sleep.
What a ridiculous argument.It's not an argument.
Well on that we agree. Your attack was nothing less than the simplistic response of someone who has nothing to offer except sadness and regret.
Nevertheless, Christianity seems very like the cargo ship religion. Consider the following.The cargo religion explains who the cargos fill up with goodies.Christianity explains humanity, things such as right and wrong and the beginning of the universe.The cargo religion only makes a thing logical, but doesn't provide facts. E.g the religion makes it so that people can understand how cargos fill up. It doesn't consist actual evidence, say, a photograph of this God.Christianity only makes a thing logical, but doesn't provide facts. E.g the religion makes it so that people understand the shape of the globe. You'll never find an atomic structure or mathematical formula in the bible.
Such a response is EVIDENCE that you cannot read. The God of the Gaps argument is a red herring argument. Only atheists believe in it. Christians don't and never will.
The writer is not suggesting the world is a circle or a globe or even flat. It is a metaphor - just like the rest of the sentence - inhabitants like grasshoppers. And the heavens being stretched out like curtainsNotice how the rest of the sentence states inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in. Clearly, you are the one with poor grammatical skills if you are being bamboozled by this simple poetic line.Of course, when describing the shape of the earth, there is no "it's curvature bent like a circle", it is simply above the circle of the earth. An assertion. A fact.
LOL! Are you really going to attempt that as a rebuttal? If a duck looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and every one calls it a duck, there is probably a good reason for that. It is a duck. Are you really suggesting that in this entire verse you quote - that everything else is metaphor - but the one who sits above the circle - is not a metaphor? LLOL@ you. I suggest you go and take a pill. Chill for a while and then perhaps have a coffee.
The reality is until you start living in the real world and start making sensible comments about such things, you - are the duck. Quack Quack.
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@Tradesecret
Big talk coming from someone who couldn't defend their bible.I have always maintained that the Bible and God do not need defending, LOLL!
Are you like 50 because only boomers capitalise their lol's. Also, where did the extra L come from, is it the one you took when you couldn't rebut my argument?
What evidence? Pascal Wagers argument for God? Kalam cosmological argument? The fine tuning argument? The ontological argument? Those are all extremely poor arguments in favour for Gods exitance, all of which have been debunked in a neat little YouTube series.Only a dimwit would suggest that any of these airy fairy tales are needed to provide evidence. Christians don't live in ivory towers like atheists.
Well actually, it's religious people who use things such as the Kalam cosmological argument, not atheists. So yes your right, only dimwit's use these terrible arguments which poor atheists have to endure.
We have the unmistakable proof and evidence of a life changed.
I'm not being sarcastic when I say this but please provide this evidence to me. Tell me, in short, why is God real?
The God of the Gaps argument is a red herring argument.
You never see any specific facts in the bible, have you realised? Where're the testable numbers? Where're the chemical compounds? Where're are the dates? It's all just "God did this and God did that". How do we know that the bible doesn't prove exists? Consider the following 8 verses.
1 In the beginning Allah created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of Allah was hovering over the surface of the waters.
3 Then Allah said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 And Allah saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness.
5 Allah called the light “day” and the darkness “night.”
And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day.
6 Then Allah said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.”
7 And that is what happened. Allah made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens.
8 Allah called the space “sky.”
The bible is literally a bunch of stories of which anyone's name can be slotted in. The bible does not exclusively prove that your God is real.
- that everything else is metaphor - but the one who sits above the circle - is not a metaphor?
How do you know when the bible is speaking metaphorically and when it is speaking literally? It seems this is your own interpretation. Why did the bible say above the circle of the earth and not above the curvature, or above the sphere? Why circle? What idiot calls the globe a circle. Coincidently, people use to believe the world was flat. HMMM VERY SUS.
Also, can you tell the difference between the two sentences.
He floated across the ocean like a swan.
The swan floated across the ocean.
you - are the duck. Quack Quack.
Are you okay? I recommend you do a prayer for your sanity.
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@Tradesecret
The reality is until you start living in the real world and start making sensible comments about such things, you - are the duck. Quack Quack.
Isn't "quack" the slang word for fake posters....er ....I mean, fake doctors?
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@Wagyu
Big talk coming from someone who couldn't defend their bible.I have always maintained that the Bible and God do not need defending, LOLL!Are you like 50 because only boomers capitalise their lol's. Also, where did the extra L come from, is it the one you took when you couldn't rebut my argument?
Gee I don't know. Perhaps that is the reason I capitalise my LOLs. Are you an ageist? Another bigoted Leftie pretending to be tolerant.
What evidence? Pascal Wagers argument for God? Kalam cosmological argument? The fine tuning argument? The ontological argument? Those are all extremely poor arguments in favour for Gods exitance, all of which have been debunked in a neat little YouTube series.Only a dimwit would suggest that any of these airy fairy tales are needed to provide evidence. Christians don't live in ivory towers like atheists.Well actually, it's religious people who use things such as the Kalam cosmological argument, not atheists. So yes your right, only dimwit's use these terrible arguments which poor atheists have to endure.
If you read my words, I indicated that Christians don't use the Kalam argument. This was more a generalisation than specific. Yet, religious and Christians are not perfectly synonymous. In other words, there are many religious or spiritual that are not Christian.
Atheists do use the god of the gaps theory though. Dimwits like Dawkins, for instance - love to throw up strawmen arguments and then shoot them down. It makes him look o so clever. LOL!
We have the unmistakable proof and evidence of a life changed.I'm not being sarcastic when I say this but please provide this evidence to me. Tell me, in short, why is God real?
Every Christian is a life redeemed by Christ - a changed person. One translated from darkness into the light. One who was blind and now can see. Now for you that is just words - and rhetoric - and I suppose on some level it probably is. And yet, Christians continue to maintain the significant different Christ has made to their lives. I suppose you can deny everyone else's experience - it is after all only anecdotal. It is after all subjective. Or is it?
I exist - therefore God exists. And this is not me as the cause - but me as the effect.
The God of the Gaps argument is a red herring argument.You never see any specific facts in the bible, have you realised? Where're the testable numbers? Where're the chemical compounds? Where're are the dates? It's all just "God did this and God did that". How do we know that the bible doesn't prove exists? Consider the following 8 verses.1 In the beginning Allah created the heavens and the earth.2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of Allah was hovering over the surface of the waters.3 Then Allah said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.4 And Allah saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness.5 Allah called the light “day” and the darkness “night.”And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day.6 Then Allah said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.”7 And that is what happened. Allah made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens.8 Allah called the space “sky.”The bible is literally a bunch of stories of which anyone's name can be slotted in. The bible does not exclusively prove that your God is real.
Allah is just the Muslim word for God. I don't have a particular issue with the usage of the word. Yet I reject your notion that any name can be slotted in. My name cannot be. Your name cannot be. Only the creator of the universe's name can be slotted in. The bible is a bunch of different stories. Have you ever thought why God used stories rather than a text book? it is because God is a being who relates to us. This is a really significant evidence for God. He is not just some crackpot scientist alien hovering over the earth with a testtube in one hand and a note book in the other. He is one who indelibly entwined with his creation.
The bible is not a text book. It does not need to have quantifiable things and numbers for people to prove. God never attempted to prove he existed. There is no need for those whose eyes are open. Rational and reasonable people understand God exists. They do not need proof. And yet if rational and reasonable people looked for proof - they would find it everywhere. Atheists are irrational. And they are two -faced in their attempts to find proof for God. They ask for standards of proof that they don't actually expect for anything else of the same ilk. And when presented with such proof - they rationalise it away - EVERYTIME. That is an unreasonable response.
- that everything else is metaphor - but the one who sits above the circle - is not a metaphor?How do you know when the bible is speaking metaphorically and when it is speaking literally? It seems this is your own interpretation. Why did the bible say above the circle of the earth and not above the curvature, or above the sphere? Why circle? What idiot calls the globe a circle. Coincidently, people use to believe the world was flat. HMMM VERY SUS.Also, can you tell the difference between the two sentences.He floated across the ocean like a swan.The swan floated across the ocean.
That is easy. Because I know what a metaphor is and I know what a sentence is. And I know how an argument works. Go and study how statutes work in legislation. Go and study how english teachers write essays. Go and learn what an argument is. In the verse above - every other thing in the passage is a metaphor. Why would one example among the rest NOT be a metaphor. It seems the reason you dislike this idea and why you suggest it is my interpretation is BECAUSE you want to use it as a means of attacking the author. You don't use any logic. You don't use any reasoning. You just say "what kind of idiot?" and then with a non-sequitur attempt to link it flat earth theory. Seriously, is that the way you think - no wonder you have trouble being rational and seeing evidence when it is presented to you.
you - are the duck. Quack Quack.Are you okay? I recommend you do a prayer for your sanity.
Are you an atheist recommending prayer for me? Is this a concession - that prayer works? Perhaps you are not far from the kingdom?