PETITION

Author: Wagyu

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#31
3RU7AL
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@fauxlaw
Clinical phenotypes in these individuals range from a typical male habitus with mild spermatogenic defect or reduced secondary terminal hair, to a full female habitus, despite the presence of a Y-chromosome. [**]

Here's the "problem".

How can you tell, without violating a person's bodily privacy, whether or not they are a "girl" or a "boy" or some (non-binary) mix of the two?
#32
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@fauxlaw
Frankly, I don't care.
Ok.

You get to identify yourself.

I get to identify myself.
#33
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@fauxlaw
The distraction that is the evolutionary uncertainty of gender, may or may not be an evolutionary uncertainty.

(And neither does it preclude nor incite any other hypothetical institution.)

And asexual reproduction may or may not be an evolutionary certainty.....And neither is human reproduction.

So enjoy the journey while you can, and extract gratification by all means possible.

And what the dictionary or text book says, is what was printed in the dictionary or textbook...And does not preclude nor incite  gratification by all means possible.

Only the acquired ambitions of the individual can decide that.


#34
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@3RU7AL
How can you tell, without violating a person's bodily privacy, whether or not they are a "girl" or a "boy" or some (non-binary) mix of the two?
Maryland v. King [2013] SCOTUS decision determined that a buccal swab [saliva test] is not invasion of privacy, [does not violate the 4A and 14A] and a buccal swab will tell you exactly that.
#35
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@fauxlaw
gender and sex aren't the same thing, as I have already shown. You haven't responded to that currently.
#36
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@Theweakeredge
I have shown, by a proper read of the OED, that gender and sex are the same thing. I'll take authority over counter culture any day. The OED trumps APADP every day
#37
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@fauxlaw
No, it doesn't, you showed an article on the history of the OED, nothing else. Whereas my source is literally the authority, you haven't even linked the definition that say that they are the "same" in fact, Lexico differentiates them as well. You can "trust" the OED all you like, definitionally you're wrong.
#38
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@Theweakeredge
No, it doesn't, you showed an article on the history of the OED
I cited an article in my post #14. You ignore that I referenced the OED, itself, in my post #9, re-cited here:

"According to the OED, relative to human biologic condition, "gender = sex," i.e., male or female. Only in grammar is "gender" defined as nouns  and pronouns[sometimes verbs] which are masculine, feminine, neutral, or common. Only by cancel culture phenomenon is the biologic condition of "gender" multiplied beyond male and female. Many multi-gender advocates refer to the variations as a ""social construct." Sorry, words mean what they mean. Only by cultural majority do meanings change over time, because culture drives language; not the other way around."

You read me like many read the Constitution: by selective, cafeteria treatment. Read everything I said and stop accusing me of not saying what I clearly did say. 
#39
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@fauxlaw
That isn't the OED now is it? Not only that but you have simply repeated yourself.. that isn't an argument, it still doesn't refute that the experts in these fields find them different. Gender experts say they are different.. you are categorically wrong, as my definition has already shown, and you have not read apparently. Not only that but I showed why and that the APA was accredited and even had more authority in this realm then OED does. 
#40
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@Theweakeredge
The APA is not a language authority. Period. And, yes, for the third time, the "gender = sex" is a DIRECT QUOTE from the OED, your "experts" be damned. I happen to own the printed volumes [20 in total] of the 2nd edition [costing me over $1,000], plus an online subscription. You do not tell me I am wrong. The OED is THE recognized premier source of dictionary definition in the English lexicon, not APA. God, when is that going to sink in ?
#41
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@fauxlaw
Okay, let's let something else sink in. Topicality, whenever the definition of a word is fit to the topic, and second of all - authority, I could care less what you wasted your money on. Psychologist determine these things, would you trust the OED's definition of abortion over a medical center's? Because I wouldn't. You are just logically flawed here.
#42
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@fauxlaw
How can you tell, without violating a person's bodily privacy, whether or not they are a "girl" or a "boy" or some (non-binary) mix of the two?
Maryland v. King [2013] SCOTUS decision determined that a buccal swab [saliva test] is not invasion of privacy, [does not violate the 4A and 14A] and a buccal swab will tell you exactly that.
Do you plan on setting up mandatory buccal swabbing stations at the entrance to every public washroom?
#43
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@fauxlaw
I have shown, by a proper read of the OED, that gender and sex are the same thing. I'll take authority over counter culture any day. The OED trumps APADP every day
You also said you don't care.
#44
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@3RU7AL
every public washroom?
not my call, is it?
#45
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@3RU7AL
You also said you don't care.
I don't, but you do do. Just want to make sure you are armed with facts before saying something stupid.
#46
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@fauxlaw
every public washroom?
not my call, is it?
How do you propose enforcing your strictly binary code?

An unenforceable code is indistinguishable from no code.
#47
ethang5
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@3RU7AL
An unenforceable code is indistinguishable from no code.
When did we start needing a code for restrooms?

People create these "problems", and then insist the problems are biologically sourced. We're there more than 2genders before the APA? The entire argument is contrived. Some people think there are more than2 genders. Ok. They are free to think so. But if you are cought in the private places of the wrong gender you will suffer the societies penalty. 
#48
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@Theweakeredge
Physiology defines  sex and gender....And people decide upon  their proclivities.

And decisions are a result of physiological processes...Which are relative to physiological definition.

And the physiological norm is male and female, though developmental aberrations sometimes occur.

And the same criteria could therefore be applied to instances of gender  uncertainty.....Though the argument usually boils down to nature or nurture.

Environmental influences may also apply.


So is gender uncertainty genetically encoded?....Can environmental influences affect people in this way?....Or is gender uncertainty a post natal acquisition, irrespective of these two possible effects?


#49
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@ethang5
But for the most part, public facilities in Western nations were male-only until the Victorian era, which meant women had to improvise. If they had to be out and about longer than they could hold their bladders, women in the Victorian era would urinate over a gutter (long Victorian skirts allowed for some privacy). Some would even carry a small personal device called a urinette that they could use discretely under their skirts and then pour out, Cavanagh said. Strangely, these urinettes were sometimes shaped like the male genitals.

This lack of female facilities reflected a notable attitude about women: that they should stay home. This "urinary leash" remains a problem in some developing nations, said Harvey Molotch, a sociologist at New York University and co-editor of "Toilet: The Public Restroom and the Politics of Sharing" (New York University Press, 2010). Women in India today, for example, often have to avoid eating or drinking too much if they have to be out in public, because there is no place for them to go, Molotch told Live Science.

Thus, the first gender-segregated restrooms were a major step forward for women. Massachusetts passed a law in 1887 requiring workplaces that employed women to have restrooms for them, according to an article in the Rutgers University Law Review. By the 1920s, such laws were the norm. [LINK]
#50
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@zedvictor4
 though developmental aberrations sometimes occur.
Why is this so difficult for "conservatives" to understand?
#51
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@3RU7AL
Why is this so difficult for "conservatives" to understand?
Conservatives understand it just fine, we just aren't going to make policy upending the majority for a rare aberration.


#52
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@ethang5
Conservatives understand it just fine, we just aren't going to make policy upending the majority for a rare aberration.
If it's so rare, why not let the rarities use the washroom of their preference?

I mean, the homos use the same facilities that you do already.

Aren't you afraid they might grope you?
#53
zedvictor4
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@3RU7AL
They hate giving too much away.  Or indeed, anything.
#54
ethang5
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@3RU7AL
If it's so rare, why not let the rarities use the washroom of their preference?
Because the majority do not want to share restrooms with the opposite gender.

I mean, the homos use the same facilities that you do already.
We are the same gender.

Aren't you afraid they might grope you?
No. Do you grope strange men in park restrooms? 
#55
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@ethang5
Because the majority do not want to share restrooms with the opposite gender.
What are you afraid of?
#56
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@fauxlaw
#57
ethang5
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@3RU7AL

If it's so rare, why not let the rarities use the washroom of their preference?
Because the majority do not want to share restrooms with the opposite gender.

Aren't you afraid they might grope you?
No. Do you grope strange men in park restrooms? 

What are you afraid of?
The reason why you wouldn't answer my question asking if you grope strange men in park restrooms.
#58
David
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I am in favor of this 
#59
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@ethang5
@David
Do strange men grope you in park restrooms?

Unless solicited, I think this would be regarded as assault

As would any unsolicited groping in any restroom anywhere.

Though David would seem to be in favour of this.


Assault....Quite an inappropriate or appropriate word....depending upon ones park restroom proclivities.


Where I live, ones park restroom facilities are usually behind a tree....Don't want to offend any sheep......Or grope them (before you say anything).

I know that Welshmen do have a reputation....But technically I'm not Welsh.
#60
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@ethang5
Because the majority do not want to share restrooms with the opposite gender.
Well, I have it on good authority that non-binary and or tranzies are super-rare and it really shouldn't matter unless they try to grope you (and there are plenty of well established existing laws that prohibit groping).

So it seems you have absolutely nothing to worry about.