XMAS 2020 Mafia - Day Phase 1

Author: Danielle

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LikeMagic
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@Lunatic
I agree that That1 is suspicious, but also keep in mind that scum has fake claims. They could all have them or some. Unclear from the OP how many or in what combination, but the OP does imply that theme analysis would be foolhardy. 
LikeMagic
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It is notable that White has disappeared likely hoping any heat on him will die down. He dropped one quick rebuttal and is now probably sitting back and waiting until it's safer for him to come back in. 
That1User
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@Bullish
Now that I think about it, Lunatic is the one who manipulated you into thinking I'm somehow hard scum reading you, which is sus af. I have at least 2 ppl I'd rather push than you.
Yeah he did
Either he manipulated me into thinking you hard scumread me or you're manipulating me into thinking he manipulated me into think you hard scumread me
I def see where he gets this perception though, you and Magic are going hard against me for the TP thing so it can be percieved you hard scumread me
Who are those 2 ppl? Water and White?
LikeMagic
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@That1User
Why do you FOS Drafter?
It's not enough to vote, but Drafter's posts have felt fluffy and forced. His primary contribution was discussing his theories on how my role should function. I also especially did not like the face palm comment about water's statement regarding Inno Child. Also, his theorization on the functionality of hated seemed to suggest scum hated would somehow be reason not to lynch or failed to factor in how if there is reason to think I am scum hated he should very much want me lynched. Mostly I want more contribution from him to better sort him and do not want him to fly under the radar, as he is seemingly doing. 
That1User
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@LikeMagic
It is notable that White has disappeared likely hoping any heat on him will die down. He dropped one quick rebuttal and is now probably sitting back and waiting until it's safer for him to come back in. 
You really want him out lmao
LikeMagic
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@That1User
I am not at all going hard against you. You seem defensive. I legitimized Bullish's statement and suspicion of your TP statement. I really only turned on you as potentially scummy when you said the mime nonsense, which seemed like a big brain brilliant scum move (in the context of me convincingly reading White as scum)
That1User
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@LikeMagic
It's not enough to vote, but Drafter's posts have felt fluffy and forced. His primary contribution was discussing his theories on how my role should function. I also especially did not like the face palm comment about water's statement regarding Inno Child. Also, his theorization on the functionality of hated seemed to suggest scum hated would somehow be reason not to lynch or failed to factor in how if there is reason to think I am scum hated he should very much want me lynched. Mostly I want more contribution from him to better sort him and do not want him to fly under the radar, as he is seemingly doing. 
I find Drafter's meta to be weirdly aggressive and avoidant, in the last game he adopted this style he was mafia, but heavily implied he was lynchproof
That1User
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I am not at all going hard against you. You seem defensive. I legitimized Bullish's statement and suspicion of your TP statement. I really only turned on you as potentially scummy when you said the mime nonsense, which seemed like a big brain brilliant scum move (in the context of me convincingly reading White as scum)
Mimes have been deployed in Paranoia mafia and it's a tactic I potentially see in this game as Danielle herself was a mime, I see why you see it as nonsense though since you're unfamiliar with it
LikeMagic
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@That1User
You really want him out lmao
Mostly I am trying to lay all my thoughts out for future analysis should I die early.

Secondarily, I am rarely confident in my reads. When I am, I am most often correct. Unfortunately, the ability to read people is only one skill necessary in this game. The ability to convince people of your reads is equally important and a skill I seemingly have not mastered. 
LikeMagic
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@That1User
I see why you see it as nonsense though since you're unfamiliar with it
I don't see it as nonsense because of ignorance. I see it as nonsense because of knowledge, the knowledge that I am town hated. 
That1User
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@LikeMagic
Secondarily, I am rarely confident in my reads. When I am, I am most often correct. Unfortunately, the ability to read people is only one skill necessary in this game. The ability to convince people of your reads is equally important and a skill I seemingly have not mastered. 
I'm willing to vote WF, your main obstacle is this is how he usually plays, making me think null/mime here, but I think you're potentially onto something
Lunatic
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@Bullish
I don't even scum read u that hard.

Now that I think about it, Lunatic is the one who manipulated you into thinking I'm somehow hard scum reading you, which is sus af. I have at least 2 ppl I'd rather push than you.

I didn't manipulate anyone, she bandwagoned me because she thought I was defending her. Which I am not, I am am scum reading faulty logic, which happens to make her think by proxy that I town read her. I even called her out when she said you were going after me which until this point you hadn't.
That1User
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@LikeMagic
I don't see it as nonsense because of ignorance. I see it as nonsense because of knowledge, the knowledge that I am town hated. 
Yeah I 90% believe you here now, but in claiming hated and advocating for your own lynch it's the perfect way to win as jester/hated
LikeMagic
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@That1User
I am literally not advocating my own lynch right now, though acknowledging that we will unfortunately have to lynch me sooner than later. 
WaterPhoenix
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@Bullish
Why is your play with an IC totally different this game, 
last game it didn't matter that there was an innocent child but this game it does so that's why i'm questioning the role itself

and why did you lie about "no one mentioned supa being innocent child last game", despite speed allegedly having FIVE posts where supa being IC was directly mentioned to you.
you're phrasing that like speed posted those posts first which he didn't. i don't remember if innocent child was mentioned and it likely was given my memory.

WaterPhoenix
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@Bullish
also could you answer my question
Lunatic
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@LikeMagic
I was not saying that town should not be suspicious of TP, I was saying we should be weary of and look close at someone who randomly raises baseless game mechanic concerns, as same is often used as a tactic to cause confusion and/or create random suspicion on townies. I do not know if Bullish's thoughts were in line with mine, but I too was suspect of That1 when they randomly brought this up, especially having contributed almost nothing outside of this random comment in the game at that point and for awhile after. 
She said there was potential for you to be jester, but in the same post said it was unlikely. Waterphoenix actually bought into the theory that you were jester more than she did.

I agree that That1 is suspicious, but also keep in mind that scum has fake claims. They could all have them or some. Unclear from the OP how many or in what combination, but the OP does imply that theme analysis would be foolhardy. 
The OP definitely doesn't imply theme analysis is foolhardy, it specifically says " I also gave scum options of fake character + role claims in this game, but you are welcome to focus on theme analysis if you wish". Danielle is a pretty big advocate of mods giving fake claims. Also not sure this means that we can't use any theme analysis, because in a 12 player game there is probably either 3 mafia, or 2 and 1 third bases on common balance practices for 12 player games. The option of role could also mean mafia had to choose between a fake claim or a role claim, which is something else mods commonly do.

That said, you may be right here because she made a pretty compelling post in MCU weapons endgame about how people tend to get too caught up in theme analysis and how it hurts the town: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5288-mcu-tools-endgame?page=2&post_number=26

The reason I was suspicious of that1 is that it looked like she was setting herself up for a soft claim from a nightmare before christmas, and I think it's obvious at this point based on my PFP that I am Jack Skellington. I was wondering if maybe she didn't pick up on that when she said that. What do you think of her nightmare before christmas post? Am I looking too much into that?

It is notable that White has disappeared likely hoping any heat on him will die down. He dropped one quick rebuttal and is now probably sitting back and waiting until it's safer for him to come back in. 
No offense, but in general I find this a bad argument. I find it extremely frustrating when it is used on me too. I play this mostly on downtime at work, and sometimes I get a work call that can keep me busy for several hours and I've come back to see people say "TUF randomly got quiet here thats sus" when there was nothing more I'd have rather been doing that replying to posts in the game lol. That said, whiteflame always answers people in the past, I have no reason to think he is dodging you here because of a slight delay. Also if he is an east coaster it's probably pretty late there, and his availability might not be the same as yours for late hours.
That1User
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@LikeMagic
I am literally not advocating my own lynch right now, though acknowledging that we will unfortunately have to lynch me sooner than later. 
Yes Ik I got that, you are advocating for your own lynch soon
drafterman
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Will post more tomorrow. But yes, looking for TP as opposed to Mafia is scum lean.
WaterPhoenix
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@Bullish
Now that I think about it, Lunatic is the one who manipulated you into thinking I'm somehow hard scum reading you, which is sus af. I have at least 2 ppl I'd rather push than you.
before this you literally ranted about how town was stupid for not knowing suspecting third party is a hard scum tell (#251, #232)
WaterPhoenix
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@Lunatic
Waterphoenix actually bought into the theory that you were jester more than she did.
ok ya but that was cause i thought inno child was an anti town role which it apparently isn't so...

Lunatic
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@drafterman
@Bullish
@LikeMagic

Let's straighten up the narrative here one more time. That1 wasn't actually looking for 3rd parties. She mused that if magic was a jester then it was a genius move, but in the same post said it was unlikely that she actually was jester. 

This all lends to my point that shows how contrived the logic was that bullish is using. The only person to lend credence to that1user being jester, was waterphoenix.
Lunatic
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@WaterPhoenix
ok ya but that was cause i thought inno child was an anti town role which it apparently isn't so...
This is a perplexing take, that you would think innocent child could be anti town. That said, based on your play in MCU weapons, I almost expect this from you lol.
whiteflame
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@LikeMagic
Look, if you want to call me out for not responding to a series of posts that do nothing to address the last response I gave you (I gave you two, you ignored the second), then go ahead. I don't feel much need to be goaded into anything by someone who has never played with me before and doesn't believe other people who tell her that this is my normal play. You want to see me as scum? Have at it.

By the by, I just caught up with all this and I'm working on a rather extensive RFD for the debate between MisterChris and Undefeatable, for which I've already stayed up much too late. Going to write down my last thoughts and call it a night. So if you want to call my going to bed a scum tell, too, feel free. It'd make about as much sense as the rest.
oromagi
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UNVOTE

VTL WaterPhoenix
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@Lunatic
That said, based on your play in MCU weapons, I almost expect this from you lol.
it's your boy :)

Vader
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Implication of a 3rd party is not a scum tell at all. There have been many conversations in DART games with it and I can't remember anyone being scum and saying that. 
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Since when has Water pushed claims on other people on DP1? I saw Water as a passive townie not looking to exort force, yet he is demanding a claim out of people who haven't been active. His words before could be misunderstanding of the role, but him saying this stuff is scummy to me
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@Bullish
DART Metas with 3rd parties and such are becoming norms, which is moronic to an extent. I don't like it, but saying there's third parties is not scummy. A third party is scum, and as town, our objective is hunt scum. 
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@That1User
Mimes are a town role I'm like 99% sure. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.