Anime Waifus Mafia DP3

Author: Vader

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#121
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@Danielle
I've been waiting for two MIA's, rather than flooding the day with off topic posts to make it harder for you to catch up.

Just checked messages (I literally just got up). So word back from Supa is indeed people are not notified. I had no way to know this ahead of time. Before confirming the action I had even mentioned to Supa the risk of Drafter being unable to utilize the gift due to being vanilla, but no mention that he would not receive the normal message was made.

As for not doing an elaborate character justification: if you're following the game, they have been kind of bad. I'm apparently a motivator because I helped Kirito and other trapped players... It drifts weirdly into details of various immunities she has due to her personal emotional strength as if it's building toward a different role, before declaring motivator.
#122
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@Barney
I'm with Danielle on this one. Not so much concerned about the character justification, largely for the same reason that you've mentioned - the justifications have been good in some areas but pretty head-scratching in others - but rather in your choice of targets. Seems strange to designate Drafter as your target when he was one of the few black boxes in the game. Maybe you had a strong town read on him for some unknown reason, but even if you did, I find it odd that you'd choose him over other individuals who claimed power roles or other people you suspected of being town. Any way I look at it, it's strange play to use your night action as you did.

I'm absolutely willing to wait, especially on warren who really should have claimed by now (his absence is especially glaring), but in the meantime, I'd like a fuller explanation of your choice of action.
#123
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@drafterman
See post #66

I had no clue what your role was. In other games I've seen people get cocky and declare they won't be lynched without justification, and without it lining up to any role later. I never joined the wagon to lynch you for that misbehavior. However, with the pressure on you yesterday, again, I believed you would not be NKked and thus alive to verify the message.

There was of course a risk of you being scum. I however was pretty sure I was not on your radar, thus if scum got up to more trouble in the night than usual, I would have then been able to out you.
#124
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@WaterPhoenix
You seem to be leaving important information out of your reads.

2. Whiteflame- Lean scum: down for a lynch on him today, if he's scum pie also looks sus too because of whiteflame confirming him as town through his np results. he was also very readily to go on the that1 wagon.
I understand that you would think I'm sus for being on the lynch. That being said, Speed has now been confirmed town and was also on the lynch. He also used his night action on me, and whatever 3 roles he saw made him believe I wasn't scum. I also provided accurate information regarding what happened with MisterChris on NP1, as he visited someone that night. Maybe you think I'm a scum tracker or something, but you're basically side-stepping everything that would lead others to town confirm me.

4. iLikePie5- lean scum: went after speed at that1 who were both mislynches
Again, awfully strange that you're leaving out Speed's participation in the lynch. I would have been right there with you on this read in DP2, but at this point, he's outright claimed to have performed an NK during NP1 and I have tracking information showing that he did nothing in NP2. Again, if you don't trust that tracking, that's one thing, but the entire basis for your suspicions are based on being on a lynch that at least one known town was leading.

#125
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@ILikePie5
I heard back from Supa. People are not notified.

I go into more detail on this in #121.
#126
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@Danielle
FYI, I'm pretty sure I warned people first thing about me working graveyards. That I shared that I expected Drafter to have information from me first thing when I got out of bed, is only sus if you think I'm amazing like Kim Jun Un requiring no sleep and lacking a butthole.

MisterChris also tried to get traction against me for my work schedule. His failed because I was entering my weekend, so was online to be able to disassemble it rather than letting it fester.
#127
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MisterChris also tried to get traction against me for my work schedule. 
???

Don't get why Ragnar continues to harp on about this. I did no such thing. 
#128
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Gonna give some commentary on reads soon. 
#129
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@MisterChris
MisterChris also tried to get traction against me for my work schedule. 
???

Don't get why Ragnar continues to harp on about this. I did no such thing. 
See #58, a mere 15 minutes after I had posted, and on a normal night I would have then been heading to work. As I explained pretty well in #61.
#130
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@warren42
Here's a dashboard of the current claims, to help you get caught up...

         ↓NP↓            Role                         Claim
---TOWN---
Ragnar                  Motivator                    Asuna from Sword Art Online  (replacing seldiora)
  1. Skipped (Seld was in control) 
  2. Drafter
Whiteflame          Tracker                        Hinata Hyuga from Naruto
  1. MisterChris (visited someone...)
  2. ILikePie (did not visit anyone...)
iLikePie5               Vigilante                     Zero Two from DARLING in the FRANXX
  1. Speed
  2. N/A (probably a x1 vig)

---NEUTRAL--- 
drafterman         Beloved Princess      Elizabeth Liones from Seven Deadly Sins    (replacing Corey)
  1. N/A
  2. N/A
WaterPhoenix   Redirector                    Lucoa from Ms. Kobayashi's Dragon Maid
  1. iLikePie -> Croc
  2. ???
---SUS---
MisterChris          JOAT                              Chika from Love is War
  1. Speedrace (Oracle)
  2. N/A ... Remaining powers: x1 Bulletproof, x1 Vote Thief
Danielle                 Siren (third party)   Albedo from Overlord
  1. ??? ... "Action failed."
  2. ??? ... Not roll blocked
warren42             ???                   ???                                                        (replacing crystalynx)
  1. ???
  2. ???

--- GRAVEYARD --- 
Crocodile             Hated                           Aqua from Konosuba
  1. N/A ... Night Killed
Lunatic                  Vanilla                         Chizuru from Rent A Girlfriend
  1. N/A ... Night Killed
Elminister            Bodyguard                Mai from Rascal Does Not Dream of a Bunny Girl Senpai
  1. N/A ... Mod killed DP1
That1user             Vanilla                        Rias Gremory from High School DxD
  1. N/A ... Lynched DP2
Speedrace           Dreamer                     Lucy Heartfilia from Fairy Tail
  1. whiteflame (innocent)
  2. N/A ... Night killed
#131
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@Danielle
Who did you target each night?
#132
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@whiteflame
wait i forgot speed did that. also, sure, i can excuse pie being on the lynch but you were the second person on the wagon but it's whatever i guess if speed saw 3 town roles.
#133
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@WaterPhoenix
Speed said he saw roles for whitelfame, right? So one of those roles had to be tracker. But tracker isn't an exclusively Town role, so I'm not sure what Speed was buying.

In fact, since the roles should be roles from the game, I'm wondering what three roles he saw that are exclusively town. Vig and Beloved Princess and Motivator are the only ones that are exclusively (or near enough so) to be Town. All the rest could very well be maf sided.
#134
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@Barney
My question is why didn't you ask Supa ahead of time whether or not someone who didn't have an active role would be told they were motivated, especially if you had concerns about it? And more importantly why didn't you ask him to clarify AFTER drafter said he didn't get a message? We had to ask you about it before you followed up with Supa yourself. 

You didn't answer why you thought drafterman was the biggest suspect after last DP (and if he was most suspicious which is why you said you chose him, isn't it possible he is scum?). And again I don't believe your excuse about not targeting Speed "in case he was visited" because we already know he was visited on NP1 and he said his role worked, so why wouldn't it work if you visited him on NP2? It looks like you're just making up excuses. 

For the record I didn't say anything about your character being sus or having a weird description. I don't know anything about these characters.
#135
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@Barney
Who did you target each night? 

On NP1 I targeted crystal (I don't remember who replaced her). I didn't want to kill a potential townie for visiting me and I figured if Crystal visited me she could only be maf, cuz she has no idea who I am and wouldn't have randomly chosen me to visit unless directed by someone to do so - especially cuz she wasn't active at all in the day phase. Also I admit I was doing a little bit of mod psych here and assumed if she wasn't scum she'd probs be vanilla, and therefore wouldn't visit me / wouldn't die. It seemed like a safe choice but nonetheless I was told my action failed.

On NP2 I chose Pie.  If he visited me I wanted him to die for obvious reasons. I was told this action was "confirmed." 



- - - - - - - - 

Side note: Btw who is crystal's boyfriend because I thought it was that1user, but we are referring to that1user as "she" and crystal specifically said she was invited by her bf in the sign-ups. Then Corey said her sister invited her - who is her sister? I'm curious.


#136
Danielle
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@drafterman
@whiteflame
@ drafterman - The mafia tracker is typically called a Scout and the mafia watcher is called Lookout iirc (I may be confusing the two). 

The only thing weird about whiteflame's claim is that he claimed to have targeted Chris NP1 and Pie NP2. We then asked Chris to verify who he visited NP1 and whiteflame confimed it (though if whiteflame is scum, he would confirm anything). For NP2 whiteflame was able to preemptively say Pie didn't visit anyone, but that was obvious because there was only one NK. I could have told ya that Pie didn't visit anyone. So whiteflame hasn't proven his role at all - he's only in my "lean town" pile per Speed's assuredness. 

@ whiteflame - Why did you target Chris on NP1? 
#137
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@MisterChris
Gonna give some commentary on reads soon. 
When? 
#138
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@Danielle
The mafia tracker is typically called a Scout and the mafia watcher is called Lookout iirc (I may be confusing the two). 
You're right, but it can go either way, I think. Legend of Zelda had a third party tracker and your own Riddle mafia had a "mafia watcher" rather than a lookout.

#139
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@Danielle
At the time, I didn't have solid suspicions of anyone. About half of the field hadn't posted much (this was just after we swapped people out) and there were few claims on the table, so I based my choice on behavioral reads. I was initially going to choose Speed, but by the end of the DP, I had a slight town read on him. Pie was another possible target, and I wish I'd chosen him, but he didn't seem to be behaving any differently than normal. The only one I noticed to be behaving differently, largely by being more active, was MisterChris. I figured that either meant he was mafia or he was probing to get a good target for a power role. Either way, I figured the information would be useful.
#140
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@whiteflame
The only one I noticed to be behaving differently, largely by being more active, was MisterChris. I figured that either meant he was mafia or he was probing to get a good target for a power role. Either way, I figured the information would be useful.
That makes sense. 
#141
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@drafterman
Yes, it is possible that I'm a scum tracker, so Speed's read of me following using Dreamer is not necessarily accurate. I guess it's up to you to decide whether I've been sus in other respects.

Just to clarify at this point, my suspicions have largely shifted to Ragnar. Danielle is making a number of good points, and since you did not confirm that Ragnar had visited you (a move you could have made if you were scum partners), that makes me less suspicious of you. The timing of your claim set me off, but I don't think the point was meaningful.
#142
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@Danielle
And more importantly why didn't you ask him to clarify AFTER drafter said he didn't get a message? 
Are you feeling ok? You're asking me why I didn't do something I already told you I did (#121). It's like that scene in Supertroopers of cops demanding a car pull over after it already pulled over. I could similarly ask you why you didn't post in DP3 when you're already here making posts...

If you look back at #73 from Drafter, he confirmed he did not get the expected message... But before that in #70 I said I'd ask Supa. Now if 70 > 73, the order of events are as you describe them, otherwise I again need to ask if you're feeling ok?


You didn't answer why you thought drafterman was the biggest suspect after last DP
Your wording is a little weird... So if you glance back to DP2, there was pressure on Drafter, people saying they were willing to lynch him and such. While I don't think he was particularly suspect, aside from myself for leading the lynch on User, Drafter was prime mislynch potential, thus less likely to be killed in the night. Anyone who outed having a role was likely to be killed in the night. I also answer him directly in #123.


And again I don't believe your excuse about not targeting Speed "in case he was visited" because we already know he was visited on NP1 
Remind me when did MisterChris say that he is the JOAT and visited speed? Pretty sure that was DP3. My last update to the dashboard from DP2 doesn't have it (#324). It is however true that when rushed to submit an action after work and leave the motivated person with time to submit a second action, I did not do a perfectly thoughtful review of every post to determine how roles might be modified away from their standard form.

On that note, who else visited Speed NP1? Since you're accidently indicating he had successfully been visited and you had knowledge of it before today.
#143
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Anyone remember if Speed stated his role was modified to still work when visited? Pretty easy for someone to say they visited him after he died.

Sadly with him dead, we can't just have him ask Supa.
#144
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@whiteflame
Yes, it is possible that I'm a scum tracker, so Speed's read of me following using Dreamer is not necessarily accurate. I guess it's up to you to decide whether I've been sus in other respects.

Just to clarify at this point, my suspicions have largely shifted to Ragnar. Danielle is making a number of good points, and since you did not confirm that Ragnar had visited you (a move you could have made if you were scum partners), that makes me less suspicious of you. The timing of your claim set me off, but I don't think the point was meaningful.
I'm not saying I scum read you, I am simply noting that - especially at MYLO - parroting Speed's read of you is not prudent.

My primary issue with Ragnar is the choice of me as a target. At this stage in the game, he should have targeted someone he clearly thought was a Townie or waived. It is simply too risky to give Mafia a free action this late in the game.
#145
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@Barney
On that note, who else visited Speed NP1? Since you're accidently indicating he had successfully been visited and you had knowledge of it before today.
I don't think anyone else visited Speed, but I had knowledge that he was visited before today and I shared that. As Speed used his Dreamer on me and it produced a result that made him think I'm town (likely including the Tracker role), I believe that his result was accurate and therefore likely worked when visited, though I suppose that depends on how much you trust what I'm saying. I claimed that MisterChris visited someone, and when he said he visited Speed, I confirmed that that was consistent with my tracking, so Speed was definitely a target of at least one night action during NP1 (two if we believe Pie, which I do, though that was redirected). I wasn't aware that the Dreamer role risked modification to the results if they were visited while dreaming, so that's a wrinkle I hadn't considered.
#146
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@drafterman
My primary issue with Ragnar is the choice of me as a target. At this stage in the game, he should have targeted someone he clearly thought was a Townie or waived. It is simply too risky to give Mafia a free action this late in the game.
I'm right there with you on this. Saying you were lynchproof made me scum read you, and the notion that he saw you as clearly town at that stage is perplexing to me. It makes sense that you would be town in retrospect, but going into the NP2, reading you as obviously town on the basis that you were a target of suspicion doesn't make much sense to me. I can understand not wanting to waste it on someone who was going to be NK'd, but the risks of motivating scum should have outweighed the risk of accomplishing nothing.

#147
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@drafterman
Optimum plays usually differ a little from actual.

With hindsight, had I known my role doesn't give a notification, I would have selected better.
#148
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@Barney
To be honest I'm not feeling okay lol. I'm in a lot of pain. I apologize for misreading. I noticed in post #121 you said that Supa had gotten back to you, so I thought you had asked him after drafter posted. I see now that Supa only got back to you after drafter had posted. Still though if you were concerned, why didn't you say to Supa ahead of time "If I motivate someone without a role/active role, will they be told?" I feel like this is a standard question for the mod, especially if you were concerned about it. 

Last DP I said multiple times I was willing to lynch drafter for not claiming. This is the same position I took on Speed DP1 (and every other person in every other game) but nobody said anything regarding drafter yesterday iirc; I believe only whiteflame said he'd be willing to lynch him if we got a wagon going but no wagon ever got going. Nonetheless I see what you mean about drafter LIVING until this day phase. What I don't understand is why you'd town read drafter based on refusing to claim. THAT IS NOT PRO TOWN. When did townies start deciding they won't claim without pressure? What if I refused to claim upon pressure? What if warren comes on and says he won't claim? We'll just let it go if warren refuses? I have no idea why certain  players get away with this, but regardless I understand your reason for thinking drafter would be alive. I just don't see why you thought he was town and would confirm you. 

Regarding who else visited Speed on NP1: WaterPhoenix was at least one other person who said they did.  Speed clarified he got results on whiteflame NP1. 
#149
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Edit: when did townies start saying they won't claim EVEN WITH sufficient pressure 
#150
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@Barney
What are your reads?